[Camelo Thread Part 16] - Denver wants what?! p58

[K_ick_God]

We'd really be screwed if a franchise tag did happen to be included in the CBA huh... Williams, Howard, Paul, Melo (if we didn't get him) would all be locked up, right?

Stern himself has already come out and said he doesn't think this will happen.

[moocow007]

Here's a trade that works cap wise. A 4 team deal between NY, Minny, LA Clips and Denver.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=49xqdhj

NY Trades

Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Anthony Randolph
Eddy Curry
Kelenna Azubuike
Roger Mason
2014 1st rounder

NY Receives

Carmelo Anthony
Chris Anderson
JR Smith
Anthony Carter

**NY gets a team back. Veterans that are used to winning and talent besides Carmelo.

Minnesota Trades

Corey Brewer
Utah 1st rounder

Minnesota Receives

Anthony Randolph
Eddy Curry
Andy Rautins
$3 million

**They get the guy they want for a guy they don't want and a bottom of the 1st round pick. $3 million cash and ANOTHER PG (woohoo!!).

Denver Trades

Carmelo Anthony
Chris Anderson
JR Smith
Anthony Carter

Denver Receives

Danilo Gallinari
Al Fariq Aminu
Corey Brewer
Kelenna Azubuike
Utah 1st
2014 NY 1st

**Denver sheds $16.8 million in salary by doing this deal. Gets a talented trio of guys to plug into the middle of their rotation next to Lawson, a mostly paid contract and 2 1st round picks.

LA Clippers Trades

Al Fariq Aminu

LA Clippers Receive

Wilson Chandler (assumption that Chandler happy and willing to resign)
Roger Mason

**Clippers have been after a much more productive SF to sandwich between Gordon and Griffin and Chandler would fit in extremely well. And I'd imagine he'd be a bit more excited to be starting for a team next to Griffin.

---

Knick Roster After Trade:

Starting 5 - Mozgov, Stoudemire, Carmelo, Fields, Felton
Bench - JR Smith, Chris Anderson, Ronny Turiaf, Shawne Williams, Anthony Carter, Bill Walker

JR Smith is a nutcase at times but has been on his best behavior and can shoot 3's, can run, can rebound well and can defend. And as much of a character he might be, he's never the less an extremely talented nutjob that does everything well that SSOL and the Knicks need.

Birdman gives the Knicks 3 bigs to surround Stoudemire. Stoudemire, Turiaf and Birdman can all play both PF and C and would give the Knicks a lot of mixing and matching (not to mention fouls).

Anthony Carter (if he can still play) is a veteran PG that controls the ball and doesn't make mistakes.

Then the Knicks look to pickup some guys from the waiver wire (should be plenty of solid vets on that list) and there off and ready for an interesting playoff run.

[Knicker23]

^^ we're talking about 2 superstars....not 3....you're thinking like we'd be paying 3 max guys like the heat, with nothing left to spare..... Adding Melo to Amare isn't going to leave us like Miami searching for scraps and bums to surround them with.

One thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that Miami has the best player in the game, and no matter how wisely we use our cap space and assets, we won't ever be able to match that straight up. No max contract player can give us as much as what Miami will be getting out of Lebron's portion of their cap space. That doesn't mean we shouldn't get Carmelo - we should - but we also need Donnie to out-GM them and get more out of the rest of our assets than Miami will. And pushing a hard bargain with Denver is part of that. If he can get Carmelo while retaining Gallo, Mozgov, and Fields, it could have huge implications for our future no matter ho much people try to downplay it. I think if Donnie ultimately has to include one of them to ensure that we get Carmelo, I think he will. But I certainly support him trying to get the best deal he can.

I agree. Whom ever Donnie is able to hold onto, while getting Melo here, will be pretty important.. along those similar lines, if (and that's a big IF) Felton can prove he can get back to consistently playing at a reasonably high level, I wouldn't totally be against surrounding Melo and Amare with quality, but not max, players.. Miami may have been better if they had used Bosh's money and surrounded James and Wade with better quality of players... If it came to that and Williams/Howard/Paul found a way to get here it would be hard to turn down, but having Melo and Amare as your big dogs and having a quality cast around them (as opposed to that around Miami), would make us a good team...... you'd have to think on most nights Amare and Melo would come close to James Wade.. beyond that 2v2 matchup, i'd take a good bench or a bunch of quality guys v Bosh most days.

[moocow007]

^^ we're talking about 2 superstars....not 3....you're thinking like we'd be paying 3 max guys like the heat, with nothing left to spare..... Adding Melo to Amare isn't going to leave us like Miami searching for scraps and bums to surround them with.

One thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that Miami has the best player in the game, and no matter how wisely we use our cap space and assets, we won't ever be able to match that straight up. No max contract player can give us as much as what Miami will be getting out of Lebron's portion of their cap space. That doesn't mean we shouldn't get Carmelo - we should - but we also need Donnie to out-GM them and get more out of the rest of our assets than Miami will. And pushing a hard bargain with Denver is part of that. If he can get Carmelo while retaining Gallo, Mozgov, and Fields, it could have huge implications for our future no matter ho much people try to downplay it. I think if Donnie ultimately has to include one of them to ensure that we get Carmelo, I think he will. But I certainly support him trying to get the best deal he can.

I agree. Whom ever Donnie is able to hold onto, while getting Melo here, will be pretty important.. along those similar lines, if (and that's a big IF) Felton can prove he can get back to consistently playing at a reasonably high level, I wouldn't totally be against surrounding Melo and Amare with quality, but not max, players.. Miami may have been better if they had used Bosh's money and surrounded James and Wade with better quality of players... If it came to that and Williams/Howard/Paul found a way to get here it would be hard to turn down, but having Melo and Amare as your big dogs and having a quality cast around them (as opposed to that around Miami), would make us a good team...... you'd have to think on most nights Amare and Melo would come close to James Wade.. beyond that 2v2 matchup, i'd take a good bench or a bunch of quality guys v Bosh most days.

It's not just about holding onto, it's about acquiring as well. He can't just end up trading half the team and getting back just Melo. CP3 is a pipedream that they can smoke later. He needs to get bodies back that can play and play well.

[RutgersBJJ]

a franchise tag would be the last thing the NBAPA would agree to. In order for a franchise tag to happen the owners would have to absolutely crush the union to the minuscule power level that the NFLPA has. That means at least a year possibly 2 of a lockout. I think you can safely say that a franchise tag would never happen in the NBA. Only in a sport with terrible union support and union leaders like football would a franchise tag ever happen.

[Clyde_Style]

^^ we're talking about 2 superstars....not 3....you're thinking like we'd be paying 3 max guys like the heat, with nothing left to spare..... Adding Melo to Amare isn't going to leave us like Miami searching for scraps and bums to surround them with.

One thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that Miami has the best player in the game, and no matter how wisely we use our cap space and assets, we won't ever be able to match that straight up. No max contract player can give us as much as what Miami will be getting out of Lebron's portion of their cap space. That doesn't mean we shouldn't get Carmelo - we should - but we also need Donnie to out-GM them and get more out of the rest of our assets than Miami will. And pushing a hard bargain with Denver is part of that. If he can get Carmelo while retaining Gallo, Mozgov, and Fields, it could have huge implications for our future no matter ho much people try to downplay it. I think if Donnie ultimately has to include one of them to ensure that we get Carmelo, I think he will. But I certainly support him trying to get the best deal he can.

Agreed. I said earlier that if you have Stat and Melo, they are basically a blip on the radar compared to Lebron when it comes to defensive impact, not to mention his overall game. So if we are going to win the East, we will need a complete team.

Our 1-2 punch would not be superior to Miami's, but our team could be if handled well. Donnie knows nothing ends with one big trade and its an ongoing process.

The rabble rousers who would gut the team couldn't run a candy store profitably, much less a franchise.

[smw6230]

We'd really be screwed if a franchise tag did happen to be included in the CBA huh... Williams, Howard, Paul, Melo (if we didn't get him) would all be locked up, right?

Wouldnt a player option negate a tag? I have no idea

Yup, Anthony has an opt-out clause that allows him to become an unrestricted FA before the old CBA expires. Thus if he exercises that clause the Nuggets will no longer be his rights holder and therefore will not be able to "franchise tag" a player who's rights they do not own under a new labor agreement.

[moocow007]

A variation of that deal (if Minny doesn't think that that's enough to take Curry's contract is to send Toney Douglas to Minny in exchange for Sebastian Telfair...and instead of Anthony Carter coming to NY, Shelden Williams (or Melvin Ely) comes to NY instead.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6bq6zlx

[Esq-4]

Here's a trade that works cap wise. A 4 team deal between NY, Minny, LA Clips and Denver.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=49xqdhj

NY Trades

Danilo Gallinari
Wilson Chandler
Anthony Randolph
Eddy Curry
Kelenna Azubuike
Roger Mason
2014 1st rounder

NY Receives

Carmelo Anthony
Chris Anderson
JR Smith
Anthony Carter

**NY gets a team back. Veterans that are used to winning and talent besides Carmelo.

Minnesota Trades

Corey Brewer
Utah 1st rounder

Minnesota Receives

Anthony Randolph
Eddy Curry
Andy Rautins
$3 million

**They get the guy they want for a guy they don't want and a bottom of the 1st round pick. $3 million cash and ANOTHER PG (woohoo!!).

Denver Trades

Carmelo Anthony
Chris Anderson
JR Smith
Anthony Carter

Denver Receives

Danilo Gallinari
Al Fariq Aminu
Corey Brewer
Kelenna Azubuike
Utah 1st
2014 NY 1st

**Denver sheds $16.8 million in salary by doing this deal. Gets a talented trio of guys to plug into the middle of their rotation next to Lawson, a mostly paid contract and 2 1st round picks.

LA Clippers Trades

Al Fariq Aminu

LA Clippers Receive

Wilson Chandler (assumption that Chandler happy and willing to resign)
Roger Mason

**Clippers have been after a much more productive SF to sandwich between Gordon and Griffin and Chandler would fit in extremely well. And I'd imagine he'd be a bit more excited to be starting for a team next to Griffin.

---

Knick Roster After Trade:

Starting 5 - Mozgov, Stoudemire, Carmelo, Fields, Felton
Bench - JR Smith, Chris Anderson, Ronny Turiaf, Shawne Williams, Anthony Carter, Bill Walker

JR Smith is a nutcase at times but has been on his best behavior and can shoot 3's, can run, can rebound well and can defend. And as much of a character he might be, he's never the less an extremely talented nutjob that does everything well that SSOL and the Knicks need.

Birdman gives the Knicks 3 bigs to surround Stoudemire. Stoudemire, Turiaf and Birdman can all play both PF and C and would give the Knicks a lot of mixing and matching (not to mention fouls).

Anthony Carter (if he can still play) is a veteran PG that controls the ball and doesn't make mistakes.

Then the Knicks look to pickup some guys from the waiver wire (should be plenty of solid vets on that list) and there off and ready for an interesting playoff run.

I think that LAC is a great place for WC. He could blend in with what they have while still being an impact player...which seems good for him. Aminu getting moved out give DEN a recent lotto pick who is not due for a pay day anytime soon.

[Esq-4]

A variation of that deal (if Minny doesn't think that that's enough to take Curry's contract is to send Toney Douglas to Minny in exchange for Sebastian Telfair...and instead of Anthony Carter coming to NY, Shelden Williams (or Melvin Ely) comes to NY instead.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6bq6zlx

What kind of value do TD and Telfair have any way? Just curious who is valued more.

Not to bring this part up, but more so in light of the "Chris Paul talk" if Felton isn't being considered for the longterm, then why not swap him for Billups if it improves the trade?

What was the NJN trade again from DENs prospective? Billups and Melo for Favors 2 picks and Harris?

Isn't Felton pretty close to Harris? The picks are being covered with the AR trade and NYK first, and how much higher is favors than WC and Brewer?

[GONYK]

A variation of that deal (if Minny doesn't think that that's enough to take Curry's contract is to send Toney Douglas to Minny in exchange for Sebastian Telfair...and instead of Anthony Carter coming to NY, Shelden Williams (or Melvin Ely) comes to NY instead.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6bq6zlx

What kind of value do TD and Telfair have any way? Just curious who is valued more.

Not to bring this part up, but more so in light of the "Chris Paul talk" if Felton isn't being considered for the longterm, then why not swap him for Billups if it improves the trade?

What was the NJN trade again from DENs prospective? Billups and Melo for Favors 2 picks and Harris?

Isn't Felton pretty close to Harris? The picks are being covered with the AR trade and NYK first, and how much higher is favors than WC and Brewer?

I would assume because we don't want Billups. If we trade Felton, we are keeping 2 out of the 3.

[moocow007]

A variation of that deal (if Minny doesn't think that that's enough to take Curry's contract is to send Toney Douglas to Minny in exchange for Sebastian Telfair...and instead of Anthony Carter coming to NY, Shelden Williams (or Melvin Ely) comes to NY instead.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6bq6zlx

What kind of value do TD and Telfair have any way? Just curious who is valued more.

I would imagine that TD has more value than Telfair.

Not to bring this part up, but more so in light of the "Chris Paul talk" if Felton isn't being considered for the longterm, then why not swap him for Billups if it improves the trade?

I would not be against this if it helps.

What was the NJN trade again from DENs prospective? Billups and Melo for Favors 2 picks and Harris?

Isn't Felton pretty close to Harris? The picks are being covered with the AR trade and NYK first, and how much higher is favors than WC and Brewer?

I don't think that the NJ trade was realistic in that Melo wouldn't resign (I really do not believe he wants to be a Net no matter where they are located a couple years from now). I think the above deal would make sense and it would actually save them more money.

[NY2TheBay]

I read the melo updates on here everyday. Hearing Phil Jackson and Kobe respond to the possible Bynum for melo trade lets me know theyre out of the race. Giving up Bynum would relinquish theyre size advantage with two 7 footers. The knicks are now simply competing against themselves as many on here have thought all along. However, it is critical to not give into the demands of the nuggets at this point we need to get melo at our price.
Also, reading into carmelos response that he'll take a hard look at the extension I feel that he just wants to get this thing over with and that he might just walk this summer.

[Esq-4]

A variation of that deal (if Minny doesn't think that that's enough to take Curry's contract is to send Toney Douglas to Minny in exchange for Sebastian Telfair...and instead of Anthony Carter coming to NY, Shelden Williams (or Melvin Ely) comes to NY instead.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6bq6zlx

What kind of value do TD and Telfair have any way? Just curious who is valued more.

Not to bring this part up, but more so in light of the "Chris Paul talk" if Felton isn't being considered for the longterm, then why not swap him for Billups if it improves the trade?

What was the NJN trade again from DENs prospective? Billups and Melo for Favors 2 picks and Harris?

Isn't Felton pretty close to Harris? The picks are being covered with the AR trade and NYK first, and how much higher is favors than WC and Brewer?

I would assume because we don't want Billups. If we trade Felton, we are keeping 2 out of the 3.

Wouldn't that be the point? If we want to keep 2 out of the 3 its b/c we want them longterm. If the goal is still to get Paul and Felton is just a stop gap (and I like Felton, don't get me wrong) wouldn't you rather add him and get Billups while keeping Fields and Gallo?

[GONYK]

Wouldn't that be the point? If we want to keep 2 out of the 3 its b/c we want them longterm. If the goal is still to get Paul and Felton is just a stop gap (and I like Felton, don't get me wrong) wouldn't you rather add him and get Billups while keeping Fields and Gallo?

Yes, I would. If that's what it took

[macman411]

Anyone who thinks Chauncey Billups is a defensive upgrade over Felton must be thinking of the Detroit Pistons Chauncey Billups because the Denver Nuggets chauncey billups stops nobody. He killed Denver in the playoffs last year by getting scorched by D-Wil and this year I think he lost an additional step. Granted he is a knock down shooter, he would kill us against Rondo, D-Rose and Miami when they have Lebron or D-Wade at point.

[moocow007]

Anyone who thinks Chauncey Billups is a defensive upgrade over Felton must be thinking of the Detroit Pistons Chauncey Billups because the Denver Nuggets chauncey billups stops nobody. He killed Denver in the playoffs last year by getting scorched by D-Wil and this year I think he lost an additional step. Granted he is a knock down shooter, he would kill us against Rondo, D-Rose and Miami when they have Lebron or D-Wade at point.

That is true.

[johnnywishbone]

Wouldn't that be the point? If we want to keep 2 out of the 3 its b/c we want them longterm. If the goal is still to get Paul and Felton is just a stop gap (and I like Felton, don't get me wrong) wouldn't you rather add him and get Billups while keeping Fields and Gallo?

Yes, I would. If that's what it took

How could we get CP3 next year and sign Gallo? Wouldn't Felton and Gallo be in the same position as Chandler this year?

[TheBluest]

Wouldn't that be the point? If we want to keep 2 out of the 3 its b/c we want them longterm. If the goal is still to get Paul and Felton is just a stop gap (and I like Felton, don't get me wrong) wouldn't you rather add him and get Billups while keeping Fields and Gallo?

Yes, I would. If that's what it took

How could we get CP3 next year and sign Gallo? Wouldn't Felton and Gallo be in the same position as Chandler this year?

Gallo's Cap Hold would block CP3 like potentially Chandler's blocking Melo..... Felton's situation is irrelevant as CP3 would replace him

[Danny1024]

Lakers beating Boston tonight and Bynum having a big game kills just about any thought of him being traded to Denver... looks like it's back to just us and Denver.