Maybe we expected too much too quickly?

[N8isScofield]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden? Congrats, you can take off the bag but don't you DARE talk about your team in bars.

I'm sorry if Donnie can't close on Melo the Knicks will not attract him FA. NY does not sell with young athletes today.

I feel I have to ask this question so don't take it personally... Are you special? There's nothing to sell Melo on. He WANTS to be a Knick. He's a Knick FAN. Do you honestly think if he were a free agent today and we had cap space for him that he wouldn't sign on the dotted line? Stop saying dumb things.

[seren]

We are 16-11 in the conference. We have only 5 games left against west. We should be somewhere around 46-48 wins.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Besides my usual chilled about things, where I thought the Knicks are a .500 club, which is 12 games better than last year, and 6 games better than their normal 35 game win seasons, I am seriously chilled on some pain pills, and can't help but NOT care. Wow, so these are what chill pills are. Now excuse me as I join Donnie Walsh in taking a nap. Wake me up when the Melo deal goes through. You know, this state is a TON better than being a fan who is under high anxiety.

- Rich

Its all about the naps. Rich for our next GM!!

[cgf]

What? The 4th youngest team in the NBA that featured 10 new faces with the only hold overs being essentially a second year player, a 4th year player, a 2nd year player and eddy curry's corpse did instantly dominate but is still in a strong position to get the 6th seed in the east while battling injuries and the city of New York's ADD in regards to Melo? I'm shocked shocked I say that we're not yet the best team in the league, fire everybody, if a plan doesn't work right away it's garbage, this is new york, we can't be bothered to show any patience with a young team. This board is a perfect example of why people say you can't rebuild in New York, it's maddening.

[Trademarkk]

Another kumbaya thread. We just lost to the Clippers at home and
people wanna hold hands around the bomfire and talk about how far we've come?

There are teams that we should be beating with the talent on this team,
yet we're losing to them. People should feel uneasy about that.

[DuckIII]

From an outsider:

I think most non-Knicks fans had you guys pegged as the 7-8 seed in the East. So as far as bottom line results, you should be pretty well satisfied so far.

Moreover, I think you should all be pleased by a number of other things that have happened:

(a) Felton has had a wonderful season, and there was no guarantee for that. He wasn't unknown, but there were question marks.

(b) Amare proved he can exist without Nash, and has played in a way that puts him in the MVP discussion (though the record will ensure he can't win it).

(c) Landry Fields is a revelation.

These things could have gone the other way, and didn't. That has to be very encouraging.

There is, however, a downside to that. With all of these individual positives, why isn't the collective team more consistent or have a slightly better record? Lack of defense, which flows from your coach. I think that the biggest hurdle the Knicks have to clear (you are going to get Anthony one way or the other, I have no doubt), is getting your FO to ultimately agree that D'Antoni simply isn't the guy. You have nice talent, and will get more. And you have players fully capable of being consistent defenders (though you obviously need a defensive center). You need a better coach with a different philosophy to take the next step.

In my opinion.

[cgf]

Another kumbaya thread. We just lost to the Clippers at home and
people wanna hold hands around the bomfire and talk about how far we've come?

There are teams that we should be beating with the talent on this team,
yet we're losing to them. People should feel uneasy about that.

Not really, what about us being the 4th youngest team in the league that started the year with 10 new guys and has spent all season having to hear about Melo, don't you get? Young teams like us will be streaky, throw in some injuries and it's no surprise. We're in a slump, that's certainly not a good thing, but what's important is how this team responds once we're past the deadline. If we're able to get on a roll into the playoffs than this slump will have even paid off since it let us experiment with Mozzie. I have no idea what people expected when Isiah got canned, but I'm pretty pleased with making the playoffs putting in a hard fought series or two and letting our young guys go into the offseason with that experience in year 3. The point is that to remain level headed about it, that's why I never really got onto the Amar'e for MVP train and why I'm not on the we're all gonna die train now. This is a young team, be patient they'll get things turned around and we'll be a playoff team for the first time in a long time with tons of room and flexibility for growth and improvement.

[cgf]

From an outsider:

I think most non-Knicks fans had you guys pegged as the 7-8 seed in the East. So as far as bottom line results, you should be pretty well satisfied so far.

Moreover, I think you should all be pleased by a number of other things that have happened:

(a) Felton has had a wonderful season, and there was no guarantee for that. He wasn't unknown, but there were question marks.

(b) Amare proved he can exist without Nash, and has played in a way that puts him in the MVP discussion (though the record will ensure he can't win it).

(c) Landry Fields is a revelation.

These things could have gone the other way, and didn't. That has to be very encouraging.

There is, however, a downside to that. With all of these individual positives, why isn't the collective team more consistent or have a slightly better record? Lack of defense, which flows from your coach. I think that the biggest hurdle the Knicks have to clear (you are going to get Anthony one way or the other, I have no doubt), is getting your FO to ultimately agree that D'Antoni simply isn't the guy. You have nice talent, and will get more. And you have players fully capable of being consistent defenders (though you obviously need a defensive center). You need a better coach with a different philosophy to take the next step.

In my opinion.

We loss to many games because of poor offensive execution and ball movement to place all of the blame on the coach for his D.

[Starksfor3]

Another kumbaya thread. We just lost to the Clippers at home and
people wanna hold hands around the bomfire and talk about how far we've come?

There are teams that we should be beating with the talent on this team,
yet we're losing to them. People should feel uneasy about that.

As fans, we live in the moment. We are reactionary and we are all either "riding high" or "dying a miserable death" and the pendulum of emotion swings within a couple of days/weeks or even minutes/hours. This thread was just taking a second to step back and look at where the Knicks are and where they've been as a franchise. It was a bigger picture thread, not a kumbaya thread

[thisiskoz]

From an outsider:

I think most non-Knicks fans had you guys pegged as the 7-8 seed in the East. So as far as bottom line results, you should be pretty well satisfied so far.

Moreover, I think you should all be pleased by a number of other things that have happened:

(a) Felton has had a wonderful season, and there was no guarantee for that. He wasn't unknown, but there were question marks.

(b) Amare proved he can exist without Nash, and has played in a way that puts him in the MVP discussion (though the record will ensure he can't win it).

(c) Landry Fields is a revelation.

These things could have gone the other way, and didn't. That has to be very encouraging.

There is, however, a downside to that. With all of these individual positives, why isn't the collective team more consistent or have a slightly better record? Lack of defense, which flows from your coach. I think that the biggest hurdle the Knicks have to clear (you are going to get Anthony one way or the other, I have no doubt), is getting your FO to ultimately agree that D'Antoni simply isn't the guy. You have nice talent, and will get more. And you have players fully capable of being consistent defenders (though you obviously need a defensive center). You need a better coach with a different philosophy to take the next step.

In my opinion.

We loss to many games because of poor offensive execution and ball movement to place all of the blame on the coach for his D.

personally... i blame the coach for poor offensive execution and ball movement as well... i tend to always place inconsistent play on the shoulders of the coach... and i think thats what weve seen this year... stretches where we play very very well.. and stretches where we look like a lottery team in waiting... to me its the coaches job to figure out a way to get that consistent play out of his players... and mike doesnt do that... his odd combinations and unique substitution patterns i dont think help at all...

[thisiskoz]

From an outsider:

I think most non-Knicks fans had you guys pegged as the 7-8 seed in the East. So as far as bottom line results, you should be pretty well satisfied so far.

Moreover, I think you should all be pleased by a number of other things that have happened:

(a) Felton has had a wonderful season, and there was no guarantee for that. He wasn't unknown, but there were question marks.

(b) Amare proved he can exist without Nash, and has played in a way that puts him in the MVP discussion (though the record will ensure he can't win it).

(c) Landry Fields is a revelation.

These things could have gone the other way, and didn't. That has to be very encouraging.

There is, however, a downside to that. With all of these individual positives, why isn't the collective team more consistent or have a slightly better record? Lack of defense, which flows from your coach. I think that the biggest hurdle the Knicks have to clear (you are going to get Anthony one way or the other, I have no doubt), is getting your FO to ultimately agree that D'Antoni simply isn't the guy. You have nice talent, and will get more. And you have players fully capable of being consistent defenders (though you obviously need a defensive center). You need a better coach with a different philosophy to take the next step.

In my opinion.

We loss to many games because of poor offensive execution and ball movement to place all of the blame on the coach for his D.

personally... i blame the coach for poor offensive execution and ball movement as well... i tend to always place inconsistent play on the shoulders of the coach... and i think thats what weve seen this year... stretches where we play very very well.. and stretches where we look like a lottery team in waiting... to me its the coaches job to figure out a way to get that consistent play out of his players... and mike doesnt do that... his odd combinations and unique substitution patterns i dont think help at all...

[Manhattan Project]

I think what gets lost in all of this is that we are a young team, most people just write that off as excuses or what not but we are a young team that is learning how to play with each other and to close out games. We have purged our roster over the past few seasons, Eddy Curry and Wilson Chandler are the longest tenured Knicks. People really do lose sight of the small things like this.

I think it's safe to say that we were expecting a playoff team with this bunch, adding Amar'e and Felton to our core was huge. It's safe to say that Landry has been amazing for us, even more than any of us could have imagined. We are building a roster that can play with some good basketball. That doesn't happen overnight like most would want. All the talent in the world can only go so far, it took the Celtics some time, it took the Heat some time. We don't have nearly the talent that they did.

We all knew that we landed a franchise player in Amar'e albeit not the one we wanted at first. However we also know that there is a chance to add another franchise player to go with him in the upcoming week's/offseason. When you have a chance to do that and be a playoff team at the same time, how can you really be mad? Sure D'Antoni is not the most popular choice for a lot of fans right now, but we are a playoff team at the moment. Until that changes, we have to ride it out.

[NYman15]

Were a 500 team to a little above average team part of the reason is youth and part of it is talent. The reason we lose some games like the clipps is youth, that is going through ups and downs but youth and talent also gave us wins against spurs, bulls, and the heat. They were playing to some of their potential. And they are getting better and growing, we forget their the 4th youngest team in the league and without Roger mason they are even younger I think 2nd youngest we got too down after the first 8 and the too up after their win streaks but this team is growing as you see Fields, Chandler, and Gallo are all growing and it will start to translate into wins.

[CrazyKnicks]

I agree with the OP, I honestly think that the winning streak we had got into people's head and raised expectations. However, here's a few thing I would like to see going forward that the team needs if they want to head into the right direction in the future:
- Some effective defensive strategy that we can build on and consistently try to implement. And I am not talking switch on picks and living with the results.
- An altered offensive game-plan where our young guys like Gallo and Will are put in areas on the floor where they can succeed with a high rate.
- Amare and Ray trusting their teammates more often.

[Trademarkk]

This thread translates into: "should we cut D'antoni some slack for our recent failures?"

I know we're a young team and I have no problem with the struggles of our young players.
But does youth account for...

The lack of defense being played?
The poor defensive switches?
Small rotations?
Three point chuckfest?

I don't think so.

It's not only losing to bad teams that's alarming, but it's the manner in which we're losing.
You can't think about how we're going to improve in the future due to personnel and growth,
without first considering who'll be given the responsibility of maximizing our productivity.

[Dr. Detfink]

Hey guys, let's sacrifice ANOTHER season till we become contenders instead of first round knock outs.

[Trademarkk]

Hey guys, let's sacrifice ANOTHER season till we become contenders instead of first round knock outs.

You're sitting in a corner laughing at your own jokes.

[albert]

(c) Landry Fields is a revelation.

Good post overall. I think this point is best worded by Alan Hahn in a tweet not so long ago - we caught lightning in a bottle twice with Fields and Shawne Williams turning out to be good rotation players.

I think the debate in the overall thread though comes from what Boston did in one offseason. They were an atrocious team and fans were reeling after they lost out of the Durant/Oden sweepstakes after tanking their season. Despite that, they acquired star players, good youth and returned a respectful franchise back to relevancy.

In doing so, their model for building a championship level team really changed things. We can all recall the question marks and the skepticism, but the result was a 60 win season and a championship. Not only that, they have been a championship contender ever since and have also been a hub for veteran free agents and role players that win playoff series.

This is contrast to a second model of building one brick at a time - something more along the lines of Atlanta. They were atrocious but started to string together improvement through the draft and free agency (side note - who knew Zaza Pachulia would be living up to his role instead of being a 12th man/out of this league? Seriously.)

However, the Hawks seemed to have plateaued in a sense with their model of step by step addition over a few seasons and the model doesn't stand as viable or smart compared to the Celtics one based on star power which was instantly rewarding.

Do we expect too much too quickly? Absolutely. Does the pursuit of Carmelo and other free agents cast an unnecessary shadow over our team? Absolutely.

But is there an automatically always right model to pursue for team building? Absolutely debatable.

[Red Vines]

D'Antoni came here to win a championship, his goal every year is to make the playoffs, those are the standards he came with and why he makes $6 mil a year. He's been a failure by his own standards and he's clearly not a championship caliber coach.

[Dr. Detfink]

Hey guys, let's sacrifice ANOTHER season till we become contenders instead of first round knock outs.

You're sitting in a corner laughing at your own jokes.

You're sitting on the USS Hope..and it's sinking very quickly.