There is no point in wanting to Lose.

ComboGuardCity · Post #1 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:11 pm

Many members on this board have expressed a desire for the team to keep on losing. The main reasons repeatedly listed are: higher draft picks, a wakeup call, and getting rid of Kuester. Well, I think it’s gotten out of hand. This isn’t some video game where you decide to lose all your games in the season and are locked to get a superstar. Based on Odds, our highest possible pick is #7. We’re not going to out tank:
1. Cavs
2. Wolves
3. Nets
4. Wizards
5. Raptors
6. Kings
And I’m willing to wager at least a couple of other non-playoff teams shut down key starters to challenge the 7th spot. I know we got lucky with Monroe this year, but it’s not going happen every year. Playing the lottery is not effective in the real world, and it’s not that much different in the real world. If you’ve been following college basketball, the class seems to be unimpressive to say the least. Yeah, teams build through the draft, but we’re not like other teams. We don’t have the pieces to do so.
Top Teams in the NBA
1. Lakers – Kobe said he would only play for LA. Built through trades
2. Mavs – Drafted Dirk & Nash, but had to trade highly touted assets to acquire Nash. Since, have been working free agency and trades
3. Heat – Free Agency blockbuster
4. Cetics - Trading assets. Signing late first rounder star (Rondo)
5. Spurs -Drafted GOAT PF with first pick. Value picks late in draft. Parker #28. Manu #57

Experience > Rolling the dice year after year. A losing mentality is not good for our young core. Not only does it give them experience winning basketball games, but it also gives players incentive to get even better. So stop with this let's hope we lose mentality. It doesn't make sense and it makes the franchise look like a loser.

captaincrunk · Post #2 » by **captaincrunk** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:44 pm

"Based on Odds, our highest possible pick is #7. "

Tell that to Chicago.

ComboGuardCity · Post #3 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:17 pm

captaincrunk wrote:"Based on Odds, our highest possible pick is #7. "

Tell that to Chicago.

Yeah, lets bank on that 1.7% chance

RustInPeace · Post #4 » by **RustInPeace** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:25 pm

Experience for our "core" won't do anything when, let's face it, we barely even have a core. Monroe's our building block, and all we're left is Jerebko, Daye and Stuckey. Jerebko's a great hustle guy, Daye has shown potential but right now is just a talented offensive player that is terrible on defense. Stuckey is just a bad PG that can score.... inefficiently. That is no where close to what we need to be a contender. We need to get talent through the draft because what assets do we have? If anything, we're more stuck right now in a situation where we have to give up young talent to get rid of our "assets".

If we make the playoffs, cool. We have experience for our "core." Oh wait, we're probably gonna overplay our veterans because that's what playoff teams do. Sure, those teams you pointed out became contenders through trading but the FOUNDATION starts with a franchise player through, you guessed it, the draft.

Piston Pete · Post #5 » by **Piston Pete** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:30 pm

The way our roster is shaped (need big men and/or PG with no significant cap space for the next 2-3 years), a prime draft chioce helps us MUCH more than anything else.

Its time to start over, time to rebuild the right way. Time to get younger across the board. Again, drafts picks are a premium.

I would rather us lose more games than go balls out to squeak out another victory or 3....we need to get some difference makers via the draft before we'll be able to win regularly again.

princeofpalace · Post #6 » by **princeofpalace** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:36 pm

There are some very good players available at 7.

And lets not forget that Phili got the #2 pick tied with Detroit at 6th worst record

Post #7 » by **ajaX82** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:47 pm

For me it isn't about wins and losses. It's about effort and development of our young players. If we play hard every night, give minutes to Monroe and Daye, and see progress in those two (and Jerebko when healthy), the outcomes don't matter. We aren't going to win the title this year, and we sure as hell aren't going to be the worst team in the league (*cough* Cleveland *cough*)

I truly don't care whether we win or lose this year. I understand both arguments, though i tend to agree that a higher pick is a bigger need than making the playoffs as an 8 seed and getting crushed. My advice? Enjoy the games, actually enjoy them. We will compete again in a couple years, but for now, just watch

Piston Pete · Post #8 » by **Piston Pete** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:55 pm

ajaX82 wrote:For me it isn't about wins and losses. It's about effort and development of our young players. If we play hard every night, give minutes to Monroe and Daye, and see progress in those two (and Jerebko when healthy), the outcomes don't matter. We aren't going to win the title this year, and we sure as hell aren't going to be the worst team in the league (*cough* Cleveland *cough*)

I truly don't care whether we win or lose this year. I understand both arguments, though i tend to agree that a higher pick is a bigger need than making the playoffs as an 8 seed and getting crushed. My advice? Enjoy the games, actually enjoy them. We will compete again in a couple years, but for now, just watch

Agreed. We need to figure out a way to play and develop the youth. IMO, we need to make playing ALL of the youth a priority. White (when healthy) and Summers need to play bigger roles this season IMO - along with Monroe, Daye, Stuckey, and Jerebko (when healthy).

ComboGuardCity · Post #9 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:21 pm

RustInPeace wrote:Experience for our "core" won't do anything when, let's face it, we barely even have a core. Monroe's our building block, and all we're left is Jerebko, Daye and Stuckey. Jerebko's a great hustle guy, Daye has shown potential but right now is just a talented offensive player that is terrible on defense. Stuckey is just a bad PG that can score.... inefficiently. That is no where close to what we need to be a contender. We need to get talent through the draft because what assets do we have? If anything, we're more stuck right now in a situation where we have to give up young talent to get rid of our "assets".

If we make the playoffs, cool. We have experience for our "core." Oh wait, we're probably gonna overplay our veterans because that's what playoff teams do. Sure, those teams you pointed out became contenders through trading but the FOUNDATION starts with a franchise player through, you guessed it, the draft.

Who's that superstar supposed to be in this draft? I just don't see the Pistons ever being built around one superstar. Its always been about stars and I think its easier to get those through free agency and trades. We'll have a top 15 draft pick and I feel the players that are in reach at #7 would also be in reach at 12-15. (Walker, Knight, Faried, Henson)

ComboGuardCity · Post #10 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:22 pm

ajaX82 wrote:For me it isn't about wins and losses. It's about effort and development of our young players. If we play hard every night, give minutes to Monroe and Daye, and see progress in those two (and Jerebko when healthy), the outcomes don't matter. We aren't going to win the title this year, and we sure as hell aren't going to be the worst team in the league (*cough* Cleveland *cough*)

I truly don't care whether we win or lose this year. I understand both arguments, though i tend to agree that a higher pick is a bigger need than making the playoffs as an 8 seed and getting crushed. My advice? Enjoy the games, actually enjoy them. We will compete again in a couple years, but for now, just watch

I agree 100%. I am the last person that wants to see Max, Rip, Bynum, Prince, Wallace lineup. I just think its depressing and wrong to see people keep saying that they hope we lose.

mrknowitall215 · Post #11 » by **mrknowitall215** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:27 pm

Intentionally losing is for losers. Name me one team that "TANK'D" and won a championship. The only team that I can think of that came close to succeeding with that tactic is the Cleveland Cavaliers with LeBron James, and look how karma came back on them.

princeofpalace · Post #12 » by **princeofpalace** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:29 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:Intentionally losing is for losers. Name me one team that "TANK'D" and won a championship. The only team that I can think of that came close to succeeding with that tactic is the Cleveland Cavaliers with LeBron James, and look how karma came back on them.

Pistons don't have to lose intentionally- they lose even when they give it their best effort. It is what it is.

Han Solo · Post #13 » by **Han Solo** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:31 pm

I want us to win. Plain and simple. Hopefully they play inspired ball tonight. The players read the news just like us and know they have a new owner. You always want to look good for a new boss (especially the one who writes the checks). I see us winning or putting up a good fight tonight at home against the Heat.

RustInPeace · Post #14 » by **RustInPeace** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:36 pm

ComboGuardCity wrote:
RustInPeace wrote:Experience for our "core" won't do anything when, let's face it, we barely even have a core. Monroe's our building block, and all we're left is Jerebko, Daye and Stuckey. Jerebko's a great hustle guy, Daye has shown potential but right now is just a talented offensive player that is terrible on defense. Stuckey is just a bad PG that can score.... inefficiently. That is no where close to what we need to be a contender. We need to get talent through the draft because what assets do we have? If anything, we're more stuck right now in a situation where we have to give up young talent to get rid of our "assets".

If we make the playoffs, cool. We have experience for our "core." Oh wait, we're probably gonna overplay our veterans because that's what playoff teams do. Sure, those teams you pointed out became contenders through trading but the FOUNDATION starts with a franchise player through, you guessed it, the draft.

Who's that superstar supposed to be in this draft? I just don't see the Pistons ever being built around one superstar. Its always been about stars and I think its easier to get those through free agency and trades. We'll have a top 15 draft pick and I feel the players that are in reach at #7 would also be in reach at 12-15. (Walker, Knight, Faried, Henson)

I don't follow much college basketball, but I do think it's still too early to tell who's going to be a superstar or big impact player. Having a pick in the teens does not help our chances, though.

Post #15 » by **theBigLip** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:37 pm

If we give our young guys a lot of playing time, and that causes us to lose, I'm fine with that. That's a lot different than having vets play lethargic and lose. So if we trade Prince and Rip and we lose a lot of games this year, I'm ok with that.

And as the thread author mentions, we are not likely to drop lower than #7 for the ping pong balls.

BUT....

... if we go on a winning binge, we could easily move up into the 10-15 range, and that would give us almost no ping pong balls, and also give us an insignificant pick if we don't win the lottery. So what I'm saying, THERE IS SOME VALUE TO LOSING THIS YEAR.

mrknowitall215 · Post #16 » by **mrknowitall215** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:46 pm

princeofpalace wrote:
mrknowitall215 wrote:Intentionally losing is for losers. Name me one team that "TANK'D" and won a championship. The only team that I can think of that came close to succeeding with that tactic is the Cleveland Cavaliers with LeBron James, and look how karma came back on them.

Pistons don't have to lose intentionally- they lose even when they give it their best effort. It is what it is.

"INTENTIONALLY" losing is for losers. If you lose after putting forth your best effort, you're not loser, you just loss that one.

The Webb · Post #17 » by **The Webb** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:23 pm

Not to nit-pik, but Nash wasn't drafted by Dallas. Which only furthers your point, trades and signings play a larger role in creating a championship team.

ComboGuardCity · Post #18 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:29 pm

The Webb wrote:Not to nit-pik, but Nash wasn't drafted by Dallas. Which only furthers your point, trades and signings play a larger role in creating a championship team.

Wow, I never knew that! So going back to the Suns was like a reunion? Thanks for the info.

King Bugs · Post #19 » by **King Bugs** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:34 pm

If the Pistons "core" is Monroe, Stuckey, Jerebko, and Daye, then I'm not impressed. Until it looks more encouraging than that, I will not be desperate for this team to make the playoffs. I have no problem being patient.

More lottery picks please.

Scout Taron · Post #20 » by **Scout Taron** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:35 pm

mrknowitall215 wrote:Intentionally losing is for losers. Name me one team that "TANK'D" and won a championship. The only team that I can think of that came close to succeeding with that tactic is the Cleveland Cavaliers with LeBron James, and look how karma came back on them.

Rockets? Took them a while, but they tanked two years straight for Hakeem/Ralph