BURTON: Who's worse, Toronto Raptors or Cleveland Cavaliers?

[rjgraca]

But Wallace wouldn't be a long-term piece so why bother holding onto him when you could (maybe) get ANOTHER pick elsewhere? I'm not sure why you're so fascinated with Collison either. The guy is just not very good. He's an average big off the bench. If that's all AV is going to be in a few years....there's no reason to keep him.

Harden shouldn't be starting already, he's just a sophomore! If the Thunder were some crappy team he would be starting. Since they are trying to win, their coach is making him play his way into the starting lineup. While that may make some question his talent now, it's a lot better long-term because OKC's window is just opening now and they need to do whatever they can to maximize his potential.

I wouldn't really consider that tanking. Tanking is intentionally losing. Losing your heart and determination is just being weakminded and soft...which is true for a lot of Cavs. But that's not losing on purpose.

How does Wallace hurt the CAVs if they would be getting a first round pick? You don't get a pick for cap space without taking something back and I think a transitional piece is better than gutting the team when their is NO one to develop at the Small Forward position.

Come on with the tired line of Harden being a sophomore when your were drafted so high you start in your second year. I guess you are implying that Thabo Sefolosha is such a vast talent that he's blocking Harden's way to the starting line-up. Your burning down the house plan with Varejao and players like Wallace speaks of no plan other than gutting the roster for any draft picks in cap clearing moves which doesn't match any published reports about the CAVs. OKC window is opening to be a regular season darling that makes a second round exit in the playoffs like the Phoenix Suns did for so many years.

Drafting players only takes you so far and OKC has come up empty drafting front court players. They need to get some veteran front court players to get to that next level of making the finals. Your solution, to match OKC, is to dump all veterans and to have a team composed of under 26 year old players. You might have to refresh my memory of the last team without veterans that made it deep into the playoffs.

[gflem]

^ You are correct that you are full of yourself as a prophet. To discount injuries on a talent thin team is so insightful and to take credit for a team tanking now is a very good picture of making yourself a legend in your own mind.

Injuries are part of the game, and nobody cares about hearing other teams injuries. When a knowledgeable basketball fan like myself predicts a teams history, I also look at injuries or potential injuries. Anyone with sense would know guys like Williams,Anderson, and Jamison would eventually get injuried. It's like celtic fans saying if Jermain Oneal was healthy we'd have a better record. Who honestly expected Oneal to play 82 games?

The cavs also aren't tanking, they've literally fielded a CBA talent team, making it look like they're tanking.

If you are saying that Andy playing out of position at center, and Mo being put in the position of being the number one scoring option would be asking more of them than what they can do, and that would lead to them being at a high risk of being injured, I would have to agree. But nobody could have accurately predicted that Andy would be out for the year. And Parker being counted on for the amount of minutes he was earlier this season (at his age) was asking for him breaking down. I didnt see you predicting anything other that this being a horrible season.
So, you were right in that, but I dont see you as any kind of profit or hoops genius. Somebody posted an over/under 25 win thread. Obviously this team was going to be bad, how bad was up for discussion but most reasonable fans here werent predicting 30+ wins. So we lost our best player, and the team is now a bunch of nondrafted rookies and CBA players due to injuries. Of course our team sucks. If you want to give yourself credit, so be it, but if you want any real credit, tell us how our team will look next year and how many wins we will be looking at then. If you can do that I will make a sig crediting you with your (self appointed) hoops genius.

[Maternal]

Varejao was banged up in December already missing games, Mo was in and out of the line-up and Parker's back was acting up due the minutes they were playing him... so you are tanking when your heart/determination are gone and injuries mount. Then we have the usual trolls posting about the losing streak which is something Toronto could easily do if they lost Bargs.

Your bias is comical and pathetic at the same time. After Miami beat you guys in Cleveland your roster was still fairly healthy, yet you still lost alot of games. Toronto lost bosh to injuries last year and dropped from 4-5th in the east to just missing the playoffs. Yet raptor fans don't use injuries as an excuse. Kleiza,Barbosa,Weems,etc have missed alot of games due to injuries, yet Toronto hasn't used injuries as an excuse. You know why? Because it's part of the game.

That being said, Anderson has had some injury issues, Parker is 100 years old, what did you expect? When a team realizes they lack talent to compete, their heart usually isn't into it and they start to "tank". The cavs "tanking" is because they're simply not good enough to win games.

What is pathetic at the same time is your self serving posts trying to boost your credibility. News flash... Kleiza, Barbosa and Weems suck too with Kleiza and Barbosa being vastly over paid to suck. Toronto hasn't lost an Important player on their team which not loaded like you are trying to make them out to be talent wise. Same could be said about Toronto's roster being composed of a lot Developmental league players too. Toronto must be the CAVs twin then since they are simply not good enough to win games and take Bargs away and they fight the CAVs for the worst record in the NBA.

Kleiza,Weems and Barbosa can start over any CBA products you have on your team. Kleiza's 4 mill is decent (if he can stay healthy) and Barbosa comes off the book soon, oppose to being stuck with Hedo's salary. You're making it seem like we're paying scrubs like Mo williams or Anderson 8+ million per season, or soft injury prone Jamison 12 mill. LOL. Lets not talk about vastly overpaid scrubs please.

Those players are worth alot to Toronto and play important roles. Who are you to tell their worth to the raptors? Besides I never overrated their talent levels. I never claim Kleiza is a top PF like you guys with anderson, or Barbosa is a allstar top PG/SG like you guys said of Mo. I can get all these threads.

Now before you paint the pic that I'm a troll, I'm just a realist. The denial of James leaving didnt set in, and the high of your fluke wins at the beginning of the season contributed to all of your ignorance on your roster and success this year. I can forgive yo'll. It's like going from driving a Bently for 8 years to a rusted, broken down pontiac overnight.

[Maternal]

^ You are correct that you are full of yourself as a prophet. To discount injuries on a talent thin team is so insightful and to take credit for a team tanking now is a very good picture of making yourself a legend in your own mind.

Injuries are part of the game, and nobody cares about hearing other teams injuries. When a knowledgeable basketball fan like myself predicts a teams history, I also look at injuries or potential injuries. Anyone with sense would know guys like Williams,Anderson, and Jamison would eventually get injuried. It's like celtic fans saying if Jermain Oneal was healthy we'd have a better record. Who honestly expected Oneal to play 82 games?

The cavs also aren't tanking, they've literally fielded a CBA talent team, making it look like they're tanking.

If you are saying that Andy playing out of position at center, and Mo being put in the position of being the number one scoring option would be asking more of them than what they can do, and that would lead to them being at a high risk of being injured, I would have to agree. But nobody could have accurately predicted that Andy would be out for the year. And Parker being counted on for the amount of minutes he was earlier this season (at his age) was asking for him breaking down. I didnt see you predicting anything other that this being a horrible season.
So, you were right in that, but I dont see you as any kind of profit or hoops genius. Somebody posted an over/under 25 win thread. Obviously this team was going to be bad, how bad was up for discussion but most reasonable fans here werent predicting 30+ wins. So we lost our best player, and the team is now a bunch of nondrafted rookies and CBA players due to injuries. Of course our team sucks. If you want to give yourself credit, so be it, but if you want any real credit, tell us how our team will look next year and how many wins we will be looking at then. If you can do that I will make a sig crediting you with your (self appointed) hoops genius.

I'll educate you all again. This is the NBA, when a skinny PF plays out of position him or her (can't tell what anderson is) will most likely get hurt. You're giving up alot of weight down there while banging each game. Common sense would say it'll take a toll on your body. Same goes with the PG position. When a shoot first, jacker in Williams is used to just standing there, while James creates open shots for him, things will obviously go for the bad if James left which he did. Now Williams is asked to do alot more, play more minutes, and that takes a toll on your body. Again isn't such common sense? As for Parker if you're suprised with his age, you're an idiot.

Now pay attention and even save this post. I'm telling you your future for next year, and come confront me if I'm wrong. The situation won't change next year. With the CBA issue unless something is worked out no good prospect will declare. Only those who are done college and have no choice. No FA will sign in Cleveland, only the Joey Grahams, and even the good trade chips you have (mo,Anderson,jamison) have some years left. No team would want those overpaid scrub anyways. I think Jamison has 2 years left included this year? Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe he can be moved.

In short the Cavs will be in this situation for a good 3 years before anything significant starts to happen. I also see Hickson leaving, you guys are holding him back.

[rjgraca]

Double post.

[rjgraca]

[quote="Maternal
Kleiza,Weems and Barbosa can start over any CBA products you have on your team. Kleiza's 4 mill is decent (if he can stay healthy) and Barbosa comes off the book soon, oppose to being stuck with Hedo's salary. You're making it seem like we're paying scrubs like Mo williams or Anderson 8+ million per season, or soft injury prone Jamison 12 mill. LOL. Lets not talk about vastly overpaid scrubs please.

Those players are worth alot to Toronto and play important roles. Who are you to tell their worth to the raptors? Besides I never overrated their talent levels. I never claim Kleiza is a top PF like you guys with anderson, or Barbosa is a allstar top PG/SG like you guys said of Mo. I can get all these threads.

Now before you paint the pic that I'm a troll, I'm just a realist. The denial of James leaving didnt set in, and the high of your fluke wins at the beginning of the season contributed to all of your ignorance on your roster and success this year. I can forgive yo'll. It's like going from driving a Bently for 8 years to a rusted, broken down pontiac overnight.

Oh, you are so full of yourself to say it nicely. When you don't come near your salary in production... you suck and looking at Toronto record--- they suck too and they have their main player Bargs being healthy for most of the season. Williams was an All-Star too in the past and you say he sucks which easily puts Barbrosa in that category. You can try to wear you mask as a realist but it's being a troll posting your broken down pontiac Toronto homer slobber over and over here like someone is going to believe it. I guess Toronto is having a lot of fluke wins too then. Toronto's desperation of trying to over pay free agents like Matt Barns (and they didn't even realize they didn't have cap room) makes them a far better situation than the CAVs not wasting their resources on marginal talent. The CAVs just signed minimum level players to fill out the roster of a rebuilding team while Toronto made wiser choices in using their cap... your rip on the CAVs is so amusing in light of Toronto's desperation moves to prove to their fans that they are doing something, but not much in reality where their current record points that out for Toronto. Your post about Varejao sunk your credibility when there are published reports that teams are still interested in him despite his injury (just google before you post Sherlock).

Yes, I guess you knew too that Prince James had made his decision two years ago during the Olympics to join Miami with Bosh, but you were holding back to not seem as big of a legend in your own mind too (I am trying to be nice too about how pompous you are in trying to educate). I just can't bring myself to thank you for your hind sight posts and posting Toronto board views as gospel on the CAVs board. I guess ignorance is bliss for you in that you for saw all and I do forget what team you said you were working for since you are educating about something that you show little above average knowledge concerning NBA Basketball. I will await breathlessly your next amusing post where you pull up old threads or anything else you want to pull out of your end.

[Maternal]

[quote="Maternal
Kleiza,Weems and Barbosa can start over any CBA products you have on your team. Kleiza's 4 mill is decent (if he can stay healthy) and Barbosa comes off the book soon, oppose to being stuck with Hedo's salary. You're making it seem like we're paying scrubs like Mo williams or Anderson 8+ million per season, or soft injury prone Jamison 12 mill. LOL. Lets not talk about vastly overpaid scrubs please.

Those players are worth alot to Toronto and play important roles. Who are you to tell their worth to the raptors? Besides I never overrated their talent levels. I never claim Kleiza is a top PF like you guys with anderson, or Barbosa is a allstar top PG/SG like you guys said of Mo. I can get all these threads.

Now before you paint the pic that I'm a troll, I'm just a realist. The denial of James leaving didnt set in, and the high of your fluke wins at the beginning of the season contributed to all of your ignorance on your roster and success this year. I can forgive yo'll. It's like going from driving a Bently for 8 years to a rusted, broken down pontiac overnight.

Oh, you are so full of yourself to say it nicely. When you don't come near your salary in production... you suck and looking at Toronto record--- they suck too and they have their main player Bargs being healthy for most of the season. Williams was an All-Star too in the past and you say he sucks which easily puts Barbrosa in that category. You can try to wear you mask as a realist but it's being a troll posting your broken down pontiac Toronto homer slobber over and over here like someone is going to believe it. I guess Toronto is having a lot of fluke wins too then. Toronto's desperation of trying to over pay free agents like Matt Barns (and they didn't even realize they didn't have cap room) makes them a far better situation than the CAVs not wasting their resources on marginal talent. The CAVs just signed minimum level players to fill out the roster of a rebuilding team while Toronto made wiser choices in using their cap... your rip on the CAVs is so amusing in light of Toronto's desperation moves to prove to their fans that they are doing something, but not much in reality where their current record points that out for Toronto. Your post about Varejao sunk your credibility when there are published reports that teams are still interested in him despite his injury (just google before you post Sherlock).

Yes, I guess you knew too that Prince James had made his decision two years ago during the Olympics to join Miami with Bosh, but you were holding back to not seem as big of a legend in your own mind too (I am trying to be nice too about how pompous you are in trying to educate). I just can't bring myself to thank you for your hind sight posts and posting Toronto board views as gospel on the CAVs board. I guess ignorance is bliss for you in that you for saw all and I do forget what team you said you were working for since you are educating about something that you show little above average knowledge concerning NBA Basketball. I will await breathlessly your next amusing post where you pull up old threads or anything else you want to pull out of your end.

Now it's coming near to our salary on production? After you accused toronto of having overpaid scrubs and I know proved the cavs have more (jamison and co) you're now using production per overal salary? digging deeper due to desparation? Where to begin. Toronto has had key injuries and Bargs has missed some guys. Whether those guys are good or not they're needed in Toronto's system yet they have a few more wins than the cavs.

Mo Williams is simply garbage at the PG position. He's a undersized SG forced to play the PG position. James made him look better than what he really is, not to mention he was NOT a shoe in to the allstar game (not even voted in), James had to cry and petition for him, and he had a fluke season to get him there. Guys like Jamal Magloire or Antoine Davis all had a fluke season once making the allstar team. So what? Mo will never sniff an allstar bball court again.

Anderson is also a joke. Throughout his career he played with bigger PF/C who took the defensive pressure, and on offence he had James to create easy baskets for him. So he got away with running around the court like a chicken with it's head cut off. But for the first time in his career he has to carry the load on both ends of the court, and ironically his number slipped and he has a season ending injury? He has always been overrated. Ironically when the cavs started losing WITH A HEALTHY roster, guys started havig injuries? Your franchise couldn't afford being this horrible without an excuse, had to shut down guys and feed the crap they suck cause of injuries to their foolish fans. Which they have bought.

The cavs didn't make wiser choices they simply had no choice but to sign CBA or NBDL talent. James just left his hometown team which is unheard off, having them go from title contender to 24 straight loss. Who in their right mind would sign in Cleveland? Turning down Barnes was simply a rumour made by your organ to make it seem like they were active in the offseason. Because unlike James Barns wanted to play for his hometown team.

At the end of the day nobody will be an allstar from cleveland like I predicted, the cavs will not finish ahead of the standings with Tor like I predicted. Everything else is not relevant.

[rjgraca]

Now it's coming near to our salary on production? After you accused toronto of having overpaid scrubs and I know proved the cavs have more (jamison and co) you're now using production per overal salary? digging deeper due to desparation? Where to begin. Toronto has had key injuries and Bargs has missed some guys. Whether those guys are good or not they're needed in Toronto's system yet they have a few more wins than the cavs.

Mo Williams is simply garbage at the PG position. He's a undersized SG forced to play the PG position. James made him look better than what he really is, not to mention he was NOT a shoe in to the allstar game (not even voted in), James had to cry and petition for him, and he had a fluke season to get him there. Guys like Jamal Magloire or Antoine Davis all had a fluke season once making the allstar team. So what? Mo will never sniff an allstar bball court again.

Anderson is also a joke. Throughout his career he played with bigger PF/C who took the defensive pressure, and on offence he had James to create easy baskets for him. So he got away with running around the court like a chicken with it's head cut off. But for the first time in his career he has to carry the load on both ends of the court, and ironically his number slipped and he has a season ending injury? He has always been overrated. Ironically when the cavs started losing WITH A HEALTHY roster, guys started havig injuries? Your franchise couldn't afford being this horrible without an excuse, had to shut down guys and feed the crap they suck cause of injuries to their foolish fans. Which they have bought.

The cavs didn't make wiser choices they simply had no choice but to sign CBA or NBDL talent. James just left his hometown team which is unheard off, having them go from title contender to 24 straight loss. Who in their right mind would sign in Cleveland? Turning down Barnes was simply a rumour made by your organ to make it seem like they were active in the offseason. Because unlike James Barns wanted to play for his hometown team.

At the end of the day nobody will be an allstar from cleveland like I predicted, the cavs will not finish ahead of the standings with Tor like I predicted. Everything else is not relevant.

Wow. Another vague post with Jamison as being overpaid is about as much insight what I would expect from your Sherlock Holmes posts. Toronto had key injuries, but the CAVs didn't... nice spin... try again.

What player on Toronto is a better defensive player than Anderson?
You still are a joke ripping on Anderson which is why I know your full of yourself and have little knowledge to add here. Did you even google to check anything out... No, we are to take your spin as gospel and all it leads to is that Toronto sucks too no matter how you spin it. Did you do any research on Anderson other than your suspect opinion that looks worse with every post you make revealing how little you really know. Go to Hoopsworld (hint: Toronto would be interested) and read the article on Anderson to educate yourself just a little to not embarrass your self further here on the CAVs board. I can barely type laughing on how you gloss over Toronto's desperation moves over paying for average talent who suck since their return in production dwarfs their salary. Since you are saying the CAVs have more over paid players than the CAVs... why is it that Toronto's salary cap figure is higher than the CAVs?

I am still waiting for you to begin to explain your spin instead of blowing smoke about why Toronto sucks so bad too. I see that you have posted those excuses that you accuse CAVs fans of, but strangely it doesn't apply to Toronto or is it in your Toronto homer view that just keeps getting in your way of seeing a that Toronto sucks too and isn't in a better boat. As for the minor league players... Toronto didn't send any of their player(s) there last year and this year. If they did, then you have this lack of talent on Toronto's roster too.

Did you notice how Miami lost every game where Prince Lebron did not participate since they are winning with the offense flowing through Prince Lebron who is now their engine in ISO mode with Wade and feeding Bosh. Oh, but you are too caught up in your self adulation of how insightful you are about Basketball. So I guess you will use the crutch that Prince Lebron and crew had an adjustment period with all that super star talent and will probably win as many games as the CAVs did last season and exit in the playoffs too. Wasn't Miami going to win at least 72 games with three super stars? I believe you would have gone with that since Lebron is the MVP for two seasons and could play by himself to win at least 60 games. I believe your analysis above would predict 72 win games (for Miami) given your great insight into the game of basketball.

I can't recall the garbage that Toronto has at the PG position, oh wait it isn't any better than Mo Williams and they can't shoot straight while they are even healthy. They must part of the key injuries crutch you are using for Toronto sucking so much that has no baring on the CAVs fate since you have declared it so. What team do you work for, because by your posts it seems more like a video game that you have at home that you draw your knowledge from. You are the one trying to boost Barbosa at the expense of Mo Williams which is what is funny about your rose colored view with a little added smoke on the CAVs board.

Did Toronto have an All-Star on their team, but of course you would have predicted that too with your video game at home. Who in their right mind would sign with Toronto other than the max of any salary structure... the answer is pretty much the same as Cleveland and outside of your video game knowledge--- you even know thats true. Toronto even tried to sign Matt Barnes to an MLE contract when they didn't have that kind of salary cap room which shows you how sharp their front office is too, but you gloss over that too in your hast to blow a little more smoke on the CAVs board.
I guess your organ is also predicted why Matt Barnes wouldn't sign with Toronto or that the CAVs passed on him rather than having the privilege of over paying that Toronto wanted.

You don't have to feed the CAVs here about why the Toronto doesn't suck too here on the CAVs board, but for some reason you think the degree of really sucking is a important distinction that only you can predict and to not really explain other than excuses for Toronto really sucking are valid since you could predict it.

[Maternal]

Now it's coming near to our salary on production? After you accused toronto of having overpaid scrubs and I know proved the cavs have more (jamison and co) you're now using production per overal salary? digging deeper due to desparation? Where to begin. Toronto has had key injuries and Bargs has missed some guys. Whether those guys are good or not they're needed in Toronto's system yet they have a few more wins than the cavs.

Mo Williams is simply garbage at the PG position. He's a undersized SG forced to play the PG position. James made him look better than what he really is, not to mention he was NOT a shoe in to the allstar game (not even voted in), James had to cry and petition for him, and he had a fluke season to get him there. Guys like Jamal Magloire or Antoine Davis all had a fluke season once making the allstar team. So what? Mo will never sniff an allstar bball court again.

Anderson is also a joke. Throughout his career he played with bigger PF/C who took the defensive pressure, and on offence he had James to create easy baskets for him. So he got away with running around the court like a chicken with it's head cut off. But for the first time in his career he has to carry the load on both ends of the court, and ironically his number slipped and he has a season ending injury? He has always been overrated. Ironically when the cavs started losing WITH A HEALTHY roster, guys started havig injuries? Your franchise couldn't afford being this horrible without an excuse, had to shut down guys and feed the crap they suck cause of injuries to their foolish fans. Which they have bought.

The cavs didn't make wiser choices they simply had no choice but to sign CBA or NBDL talent. James just left his hometown team which is unheard off, having them go from title contender to 24 straight loss. Who in their right mind would sign in Cleveland? Turning down Barnes was simply a rumour made by your organ to make it seem like they were active in the offseason. Because unlike James Barns wanted to play for his hometown team.

At the end of the day nobody will be an allstar from cleveland like I predicted, the cavs will not finish ahead of the standings with Tor like I predicted. Everything else is not relevant.

Wow. Another vague post with Jamison as being overpaid is about as much insight what I would expect from your Sherlock Holmes posts. Toronto had key injuries, but the CAVs didn't... nice spin... try again.

What player on Toronto is a better defensive player than Anderson?
You still are a joke ripping on Anderson which is why I know your full of yourself and have little knowledge to add here. Did you even google to check anything out... No, we are to take your spin as gospel and all it leads to is that Toronto sucks too no matter how you spin it. Did you do any research on Anderson other than your suspect opinion that looks worse with every post you make revealing how little you really know. Go to Hoopsworld (hint: Toronto would be interested) and read the article on Anderson to educate yourself just a little to not embarrass your self further here on the CAVs board. I can barely type laughing on how you gloss over Toronto's desperation moves over paying for average talent who suck since their return in production dwarfs their salary. Since you are saying the CAVs have more over paid players than the CAVs... why is it that Toronto's salary cap figure is higher than the CAVs?

I am still waiting for you to begin to explain your spin instead of blowing smoke about why Toronto sucks so bad too. I see that you have posted those excuses that you accuse CAVs fans of, but strangely it doesn't apply to Toronto or is it in your Toronto homer view that just keeps getting in your way of seeing a that Toronto sucks too and isn't in a better boat. As for the minor league players... Toronto didn't send any of their player(s) there last year and this year. If they did, then you have this lack of talent on Toronto's roster too.

Did you notice how Miami lost every game where Prince Lebron did not participate since they are winning with the offense flowing through Prince Lebron who is now their engine in ISO mode with Wade and feeding Bosh. Oh, but you are too caught up in your self adulation of how insightful you are about Basketball. So I guess you will use the crutch that Prince Lebron and crew had an adjustment period with all that super star talent and will probably win as many games as the CAVs did last season and exit in the playoffs too. Wasn't Miami going to win at least 72 games with three super stars? I believe you would have gone with that since Lebron is the MVP for two seasons and could play by himself to win at least 60 games. I believe your analysis above would predict 72 win games (for Miami) given your great insight into the game of basketball.

I can't recall the garbage that Toronto has at the PG position, oh wait it isn't any better than Mo Williams and they can't shoot straight while they are even healthy. They must part of the key injuries crutch you are using for Toronto sucking so much that has no baring on the CAVs fate since you have declared it so. What team do you work for, because by your posts it seems more like a video game that you have at home that you draw your knowledge from. You are the one trying to boost Barbosa at the expense of Mo Williams which is what is funny about your rose colored view with a little added smoke on the CAVs board.

Did Toronto have an All-Star on their team, but of course you would have predicted that too with your video game at home. Who in their right mind would sign with Toronto other than the max of any salary structure... the answer is pretty much the same as Cleveland and outside of your video game knowledge--- you even know thats true. Toronto even tried to sign Matt Barnes to an MLE contract when they didn't have that kind of salary cap room which shows you how sharp their front office is too, but you gloss over that too in your hast to blow a little more smoke on the CAVs board.
I guess your organ is also predicted why Matt Barnes wouldn't sign with Toronto or that the CAVs passed on him rather than having the privilege of over paying that Toronto wanted.

You don't have to feed the CAVs here about why the Toronto doesn't suck too here on the CAVs board, but for some reason you think the degree of really sucking is a important distinction that only you can predict and to not really explain other than excuses for Toronto really sucking are valid since you could predict it.

You're full of contradiction and self pity. I'll excuse your emotions, I honestly feel Cavs fans didn't know how much of a joke their team would be when James left. Besides many felt Mo would be an allstar, Anderson the next rodman, Hickson the next D.Howard,etc. In reality the roster was nothing but bench/CBA players who's value was enhanced by James. Funny how things change when James is not there to create shots for Mo, or Shaq/ big Z/Ben, is not there to take the defensive pleasure off that clown Anderson. All of a sudden they're having bad seasons and getting hurt?

I didn't even read all your childish post. Miami heat? Bosh and wade out? Stay on topic here, and what's with the "what if"? Unfortunately that's how the cav season has gone. I'm always realistic, I'm a fan of the game before my team. I've said that from day one and never overrated my team or players. We suck, we're a joke, but at least whether healthy or not we have NBA talent and can beat a NCAA team. The Cavs cannot.

Here's someones front office who actually thought James would stay, even though he walks around with a yankee hat in Cleveland, claims he loves NY, leaves cleveland when he can to party with JayZ or wade,etc. If the raps Organization is not sharp which I agree with to certain extent, then the Cavs organ is mentally (Please Use More Appropriate Word). But the cavs are always making records, just on the wrong end. First to lose a hometown player James which such talent, the losing streak is now what 24/25 (I lost count),etc. Your franchise is worse off than all and always will be. Your 8 year glory days with James is just that, glory days. You'll never see such success in our life time. Bosh was also a allstar with us and we signed Hedo after his nba finals appearance with orlando. speak with facts not emotions.

Any ways who'll pay me my money? I had a 200 dollar bet with some sucker cav fans.

[PolakFury]

I have to say the Raps since Cavs be breaking the wrong records. I want the Cavs to be successful but they just aint doing good in the NBA now.

[TheOUTLAW]

"They be breaking records?"
"They aint doing good?"

SMH

[God Squad]

lol outlaw haha

[Iputsomepantson]

Confetti after you guys beat the Clippers? Really?

[B Mac]

We have confetti after every win, even pre-season.

[Darain]

Cavs won last night

[gflem]

We have confetti after every win, even pre-season.

The confetti clean up crew has been looking like the Maytag repairman from the commercials this season.