[Camelo Thread Part 16] - Denver wants what?! p58

Demyze · Post #1461 » by **Demyze** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:27 pm

Yea for this season but in the offseason we fill in the pieces because we have the flexibility, we aren't playing for the Championship this season realistically, we are playing for the future.[/quote]
So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal[/quote]

The Knicks are going to make the playoffs regardless and as of right we are about to be below the .500 mark. All i'm saying is you don't covet guys like Mosgov in to being a deal breaker for not getting it done. If it comes down to it you give them alot of young talent to get the deal done because down the road Mosgov will be an ok player while Melo be a hall of famer. People forget Melo is only 26 years old, talk about young talent.

god shammgod · Post #1462 » by **god shammgod** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:28 pm

Jitpal wrote:So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal

it's not going to be that much, i don't buy that for a second. could denver even take that many players without having to cut guaranteed contracts ?

Jitpal · Post #1463 » by **Jitpal** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:29 pm

nyknicks2k2 wrote:
NYK0605 wrote:
nyknicks2k2 wrote:Celtics also had the 5th pick and Rondo. Celtics completely refused to move Rondo and now look at him. If we're going by the logic of "**** it, move everyone" then he would've been in that deal as well. They also were able to move the 5th pick for Ray Allen which helped start up the KG deal in the first place.

Point is, yeah, value wise they don't match up to Melo. Does that mean we should send out all our assets? No. Melo and Amare aren't even going to win us a division title.

Understood.

Im not saying "sell the farm".

Donnie needs to be able tokeep Gallo IMO because I feel at 22 he has great potnetial to be a great 6th man for us. If it comes down to Chandler, Fields, Curry, AR and if have to, Mozgov, I pull the trigger.

I would definitely want to keep Moz.

I don't think he's the 2nd coming or anything crazy like that but who's our big man after a deal like this? We always complain about small ball and no rebounding but we'll happily ship out our only legit C? That seems highly counterproductive. We're basically giving up this yr in hopes of landing a ton of depth next year.

The more I think about it, I'm not really sure what depth is there next year. 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, probably no MLE(or at least significantly reduced), no tradable assets assuming we sell the farm like everyone seems to be suggesting and no cap room to sign anyone. You've got to figure that the 2nd rounder isn't ready to compete from day 1 because guys like Fields are extremely rare. With the lockout possible, the draft is expected to be weak as it is. Unless guys want to play for the minimum, I just don't see the team improving leaps and bounds from this year if everything gets traded. -Jitpal

Jitpal · Post #1464 » by **Jitpal** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:30 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jitpal wrote:So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal

it's not going to be that much, i don't buy that for a second. could denver even take that many players without having to cut guaranteed contracts ?

Well, I'm assuming Randolph gets swapped for a pick. Denver also has a few veteran guys on minimum, one-year contracts like Anthony Carter, Melvin Ely and Sheldon Williams. I don't think they would mind cutting those guys if they get talent back like the Knicks are giving up. -Jitpal

god shammgod · Post #1465 » by **god shammgod** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:31 pm

god shammgod wrote:isn't there some discussion in the new cba about allowing trades that don't match dollar for dollar. if this is true the knicks have nothing to worry about who'll they give up. we'll be collecting every talented but overpaid player in the league to join melo & amare.

i mentioned this earlier, might be a way to add depth that we haven't really considered.

Knicker23 · Post #1466 » by **Knicker23** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:33 pm

You could surround Amare and Melo with a bunch of scrubs and they win enough games to make the playoffs... given we'd have a PG, likely Felton, perhaps Billups, that's 3. I also don't think Moz is going anywhere, so that's a big.... beyond that, at the end of the day, that isn't a bad 4 guys to have moving forward.... Not that I think we'll be giving up Chandler Fields and Gallo, but if that happened to occur, it wouldn't leave us the same team we are now.

Jitpal · Post #1467 » by **Jitpal** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:36 pm

Demyze wrote:Yea for this season but in the offseason we fill in the pieces because we have the flexibility, we aren't playing for the Championship this season realistically, we are playing for the future.

So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal[/quote]

The Knicks are going to make the playoffs regardless and as of right we are about to be below the .500 mark. All i'm saying is you don't covet guys like Mosgov in to being a deal breaker for not getting it done. If it comes down to it you give them alot of young talent to get the deal done because down the road Mosgov will be an ok player while Melo be a hall of famer. People forget Melo is only 26 years old, talk about young talent.[/quote]
The Knicks are up on the 8th seeds by only 2 games in the loss column. Charlotte, Indiana and Philadelphia are all playing a lot better lately. It's not a lock by any stretch. I also don't think any one player on this squad outside of Amare is a deal breaker, but what you can't do is give them everyone else. They have to choose. 1 or 2 of the 4. If they want Fields and Mozgov, fine. If they want Chandler and Fields, fine. If they want Gallo and Chandler, fine. You can't give them Gallo, Chandler and Fields or all 4 of them. This team would have no room for internal improvement and no great assets for external improvement. All you have is late draft picks and whatever is left of the MLE/LLE. A team with Melo/Amare and scrubs isn't winning anything. -Jitpal

Pedro Pistolas · Post #1468 » by **Pedro Pistolas** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:36 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jitpal wrote:So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal

it's not going to be that much, i don't buy that for a second. could denver even take that many players without having to cut guaranteed contracts ?

you're nuts if you think there wouldn't be a backlash if we miss the playoffs with Melo.

This was towards demyze

god shammgod · Post #1469 » by **god shammgod** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:37 pm

Pedro Pistolas wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Jitpal wrote:So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal

it's not going to be that much, i don't buy that for a second. could denver even take that many players without having to cut guaranteed contracts ?

you're nuts if you think there wouldn't be a backlash if we miss the playoffs with Melo.

what ? are you quoting the right person. of course there would be.

edit - ok

Jitpal · Post #1470 » by **Jitpal** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:38 pm

god shammgod wrote:
god shammgod wrote:isn't there some discussion in the new cba about allowing trades that don't match dollar for dollar. if this is true the knicks have nothing to worry about who'll they give up. we'll be collecting every talented but overpaid player in the league to join melo & amare.

i mentioned this earlier, might be a way to add depth that we haven't really considered.

I can't imagine the owners being for it. It would give teams like the Knicks and Lakers a HUGE advantage over the smaller market teams. People already complain that deals in the NBA are usually done for contracts rather than the players and this would increase that. I wouldn't mind it personally, provided there is a way to remove contracts from counting against the cap. -Jitpal

god shammgod · Post #1471 » by **god shammgod** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:40 pm

Jitpal wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
god shammgod wrote:isn't there some discussion in the new cba about allowing trades that don't match dollar for dollar. if this is true the knicks have nothing to worry about who'll they give up. we'll be collecting every talented but overpaid player in the league to join melo & amare.

i mentioned this earlier, might be a way to add depth that we haven't really considered.

I can't imagine the owners being for it. It would give teams like the Knicks and Lakers a HUGE advantage over the smaller market teams. People already complain that deals in the NBA are usually done for contracts rather than the players and this would increase that. I wouldn't mind it personally, provided there is a way to remove contracts from counting against the cap. -Jitpal

these small market owners want increased revenue sharing, for that to happen maybe they allow this in return. i read somewhere that they were considering this.

Demyze · Post #1472 » by **Demyze** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:40 pm

Pedro Pistolas wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Jitpal wrote:So let me get this straight, you would be willing to miss the playoffs, swap picks with the Rockets(giving them a lottery pick), trading Gallinari, Randolph, Chandler, Fields and Mozgov from the team(all the young talent) for Melo? -Jitpal

it's not going to be that much, i don't buy that for a second. could denver even take that many players without having to cut guaranteed contracts ?

you're nuts if you think there wouldn't be a backlash if we miss the playoffs with Melo.

This was towards demyze

I said we are going to make the playoffs this year regardless, but as right now the players that everyone covets are not producing and we are about to be 1 loss below .500, adding Melo easy gives you an extra 7 wins on the season, didn't you watch the Mav's game the other night he went off if he didnt do **** they would have lost.

NYMNYKFN10 · Post #1473 » by **NYMNYKFN10** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:40 pm

Raymond Felton is tired of the Carmelo Anthony rumors and said Friday night that the speculation is New York's problem.

"That's the problem right now," Felton said after the Knicks lost to the Lakers at home. "It's just that it's being talked about too much."

The Knicks have lost eight of their 12 games since they became the front-runner to land Anthony when the Nets pulled out of talks with the Nuggets.

"I don't know that," Donnie Walsh said when asked if the rumors were an issue. "But it appears to be with some guys. But I know this: That you gotta get used to it. It's a young team. They haven't been through that."

wiretap

Demyze · Post #1474 » by **Demyze** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:42 pm

I'm not saying we go crazy and gut the whole team in a stupid trade, what i'm saying is don't make one of the young guys specifically fields or gallo the deal breaker. If we have a shot where we can acquire him in a deal but we give up a little more than we want too you pull the trigger plain and simple.

vallen · Post #1475 » by **vallen** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:45 pm

If we lose out on Melo, are we able to resign Wil, Landry, or Gallo in order to have enough money for Dwight, Paul, or D-Wil come FA 2012 ?

I just dont understand what our next move would be if we lose out on Melo..Did we really trade Picks, youth, and contracts that would be gone anyway, just to wait till 2012.

and still cant keep the guys were trying to hold onto..

captvict · Post #1476 » by **captvict** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:46 pm

Superstars attract more superstars to join with them....everybody but Amare is fair game...lets face it...they are all role players anyway....

Build around Armare and Melo....and probably Paul or Williams will join with them the following year

Paul
Who cares
Who cares
Carmelo
Amare

Jitpal · Post #1477 » by **Jitpal** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:48 pm

Demyze wrote:
I said we are going to make the playoffs this year regardless, but as right now the players that everyone covets are not producing and we are about to be 1 loss below .500, adding Melo easy gives you an extra 7 wins on the season, didn't you watch the Mav's game the other night he went off if he didnt do **** they would have lost.

The players are producing because of trade rumors, once the deadline passes, everyone should be back to normal. There is no way Melo win the Knicks 7 games they were going to lose. Knicks have 30 games left, assuming they go .500 (as their current record suggests) they would be 15-15. Winning 41 games. Do you honestly believe the Knicks will win 48 games if they run out a roster of Felton/Billups, Walker, Williams, Melo and Amare? That would mean the Knicks would need to go 22-8 the rest of the way. -Jitpal

god shammgod · Post #1478 » by **god shammgod** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:48 pm

vallen wrote:If we lose out on Melo, are we able to resign Wil, Landry, or Gallo in order to have enough money for Dwight, Paul, or D-Wil come FA 2012 ?

I just dont understand what our next move would be if we lose out on Melo..Did we really trade Picks, youth, and contracts that would be gone anyway, just to wait till 2012.

and still cant keep the guys were trying to hold onto..

no, you can't hold onto everybody and get one of those guys. you're right, there is no real next move, which is why i feel that we'll end up with melo someway or another. it's too important to not happen.

johnnywishbone · Post #1479 » by **johnnywishbone** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:48 pm

captvict wrote:Superstars attract more superstars to join with them....everybody but Amare is fair game...lets face it...they are all role players anyway....

Build around Armare and Melo....and probably Paul or Williams will join with them the following year

Paul
Who cares
Carmelo
Amare
Who cares

Fixed.

Pedro Pistolas · Post #1480 » by **Pedro Pistolas** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:49 pm

Knick4Real wrote:That was an interesting article, since basically it's telling the KNICKS to blink first. But based on the reported pieces of the deal Denver is currently asking for, it's basically a suicide move for us.

If we give up Chandler, Gallo, Fields, Moz, and/or Felton, and perhaps more, how do we SERIOUSLY compete as a franchise with a nucleus made up of Amare, Melo, Walker and Roger Mason??? Not only would we be unable to add a legitimate star next season, but we'd be hard pressed to win 40 games THIS season!

So for all the people who keep saying they're tired of this and are willing to do WHATEVER just to get it over with, I say you've been following this much too closely and reading every single syllable about it to the point where you're delusional. Melo is undoubtedly a top tier superstar in the league. But I refer you back to what Donnie said early in this process: we can't gut the team just for one guy.

People will be in for a rude awakening when they see a melo/ amare tandem struggle to win games. I'm saying the Nuggets have a better and more talented team then we do and yet they aren't consistently winning. So imagine this team with weaker talent? You think an amare/ melo / felton core would be good enough to win consistently down the stretch...