Trades

[theatlfan]

So apparently LD is bucking for a trade to shock the culture of the Hawks. Nice... after hearing about chemistry and keeping the team together, now the new voice is asking for change. Can't say I disagree - when you're starting one of the Twins, then you've got an issue somewhere. There's no mention of a drastic culture change (I guess this means that Smoove won't be traded... yet), so we're looking @ minor roster tweaking. We've seen a couple of ideas - some possible, some not so. But I figured I'd throw an idea out there:

Basically, we're seeing a lot of big name SF's on the market - Granger, Gerald Wallace, 'Melo. My idea is to get into a 3x using Marvin as bait. Marvin would go to the team trading their star SF so that they have a suitable young replacement @ the position. In return, we should get a some minor pieces back.

One idea I'll throw on the table:
CHA trades Wallace to LAC for Kaman + Aminu + Warren
We trade Marvin to CHA for Nazr

Not saying it's the best deal or anything, but OTOH, I haven't really found a good fit either. Anyway, figured I'd throw it out there to see if anyone saw something better...

[mcfly1204]

Keep an eye on Mo Williams. He is an underrated play maker, and now that he is finally healthy, his shooting percentages should bounce back. I think he would be a great third option in Atlanta.

[evildallas]

Mo Williams appears horribly overpaid, so I can't see him fitting into the Atlanta salary structure. However, consider this Cleveland idea:
Marvin Williams
Jeff Teague (use trade exception)
for
Ramon Sessions
Anthony Parker

Cleveland gets a young all-around player in need of a new environment and a young PG who may develop, Atlanta gets a penetrating PG ready to play now and a SF that can shoot the 3. Cleveland is getting more talent in the deal, but taking on the worst contract. It would give us about 2M in room this year if we have another trade in mind. Also, the 4M in savings next year may (not certain) allow enough space to resign Jamal Crawford if he's willing.

[mcfly1204]

If Mo Williams is horribly overpaid, what do you call Marvin's contract?

[theatlfan]

If Mo Williams is horribly overpaid, what do you call Marvin's contract?

Marvin's contract is based on the MLE and he produces what an average starting SF would/should yield. No it's not "team friendly" but it's not as completely out of bounds as others would suggest it is. The typical comp we give Marvin is close to Trevor Ariza - the production and contract are similar.

Mo's contract is now approaching "untradeable". $9M per for a PG w/ > 30% from 3 and > 40% from the floor can't be moved easily. There really isn't a good comp for Mo in terms of salary vs production @ his position, since Calderon has been a noted target for TOR to dump. At this point, I'd think TOR fans would be happy with expirings for him - so forth an average player... and he's prolly better than Mo (Defensively, I'm sure Mo is better, but those rates on O are astonishingly poor). For better comps, Jameer Nelson and Mike Conley are on contracts slightly below Mo and are performing at least as good better (if you completely ignore those eye-popping shooting stats from Mo), and neither have been accused of having incredibly team friendly deals.

So, in summary, yes, Mo is horribly overpaid, while Marvin is, at best, slightly overpaid.

[mcfly1204]

Mo's shooting percentages this season are down because he has been playing injured all season. Now that he is fianlly healthy, or so they say, I expect his percentages to bounce back. It is hard to get lift on your shot when you are dealing with a groind injury and/or a hip flexer.

[theatlfan]

Mo's shooting percentages this season are down because he has been playing injured all season. Now that he is fianlly healthy, or so they say, I expect his percentages to bounce back. It is hard to get lift on your shot when you are dealing with a groind injury and/or a hip flexer.

Expectations and reality aren't the same thing. Groin injuries in particular can be nagging injuries for athletes and something they never really get over until they have enough time to rest it. I wouldn't take the chance on him until we're 100% that he's back... even if that means waiting until the off-season. I mean it's not like CLE will get much more for him by waiting anyway. He's still a case 1a for a salary dump.

I would still prefer evildallas' counter regardless of Mo's health though. Sessions could be a good compliment to Bibby and Parker fills an immediate need.

[TheOUTLAW]

I really see no motivation for the Cavs to trade Sessions. There is nothing of worth coming back to the Cavs.

[Revived]

Would you guys do this trade?

Phoenix gets:

Josh Smith
Jeff Teague
Thabeet

Atlanta gets:

Vince Carter (expiring contract)
Goran Dragic
OJ Mayo
Robin Lopez

Memphis gets:

Jamal Crawford
1st rd pick from PHX & maybe another 1st rd pick from Atlanta

I have heard that the Hawks need a PG that is a good defender and can shoot 3s well. That basically describes Goran Dragic. He was a big part of our team last year & I'd hate to give him up but we desperately need a PF. Also Lopez has a very high defensive potential so it allows you guys to move Horford to the 4 spot. The addition of OJ Mayo & Carter make you guys one of the deepest teams in the NBA.

Memphis gets rid of Mayo who is having off-court trouble for them. They get Crawford who is an expiring & can help them push for the playoffs. They also get a 1st rd pick....maybe 2.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=64jda79

[D21]

To be better, we need the PG you said, but keeping Josh, who could be better with a better PG.
We won't get it because owners want to stay under LT (which is possible with your trade as we get Carter expiring instead of Crawford expiring).

What I don't like is that each time I saw Dragic playing, your team is loosing points on opponent team.
Maybe is a good defender, but not a team defender, or he doesn't produce enough, or he plays with your bad players only...

If only sometimes I saw him keeping your team on a good level like with Nash, I would consider this offer, but it's not the case.
Teague sometimes made the beat better, and I would be OK to trade him.
I don't see it with Dragic, so I don't want to trade for him, but maybe I did not see him play enough.

[Revived]

To be better, we need the PG you said, but keeping Josh, who could be better with a better PG.
We won't get it because owners want to stay under LT (which is possible with your trade as we get Carter expiring instead of Crawford expiring).

What I don't like is that each time I saw Dragic playing, your team is loosing points on opponent team.
Maybe is a good defender, but not a team defender, or he doesn't produce enough, or he plays with your bad players only...

If only sometimes I saw him keeping your team on a good level like with Nash, I would consider this offer, but it's not the case.
Teague sometimes made the beat better, and I would be OK to trade him.
I don't see it with Dragic, so I don't want to trade for him, but maybe I did not see him play enough.

He was a big part of our team last year. One of the main reasons we went so deep in the Finals was because of our bench, and he led our bench last season. There were games we would be losing, and he comes in along with the rest of the bench, and we regain the lead.

This year he's not had as good a season because a) There were issues with him & Hedo Turkoglu who we acquired over summer. Then we traded him away. b) Once we did the trade with Orlando, everything changed and the new players didn't know where to go whenever Goran called a play. c) Then when they finally learned the plays, etc, Dragic got injured and missed a good amount of games. Now he's finally back and he's starting to get back to last season's form.

I know you said you haven't watched him play much so here some clips you should see.

Please watch the Goran Dragic show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G5mv713WA0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNGME...feature=fvwrel

^^^ 26 pts in the 2nd half.

Against the champs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZCN-...eature=related

Against you guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfBUz...eature=related

Dragic is a baller. I'd HATE to give him up but we desperately need a PF right now. That's the only reason.

[theatlfan]

^^ Look, I can find multiple highlights of one of our prospects having impressive games. Marvin coming through with 20+ points or 10+ rebounds when the team has an injury to a guy who supplies those for us, Teague with a 24 point/15 assist night in his only extended minutes to date, Salim Stoudamire dropping 30 points in a game... the list goes on. None of these guys has made true on the promise they showed in these games. This is why fans of a team tend to overrate their own prospects - they see the highlights that dazzle the mind on what could be, while overlooking the faults that show how far the player is away from actually realizing that ceiling. You've got to realize that that Dragic is just a prospect - maybe a good one, but still a prospect.

Understanding this, this deal boils down to us trading 2 of our 4 best player for 3 prospects of which only one of whom is that interesting... and for this charity, we've got to kick in a prospect of our own and "maybe" another 1st?!? Very easy pass. Honestly, if you removed Dragic and VC and put in Nash, then I'm still not sure that I'd pull the trigger. Neither Lopez nor Mayo are really round pegs to the round holes in our team, and it's really a pipe dream to think that a Dragic/VC combo would come close to having the value that Nash does.

Now, if you're looking to deal Dragic, then I'd offer up JC2 and maybe a future pick (your 2nd returned from the Chills deal?), but I don't think he could be the centerpiece of any deal for one of our core pieces. Definitely not Smoove and I wouldn't think that we'd consider it for JC1 either...

[Revived]

Its not just one game. Its the entire 2nd half of last season and the 2010 playoffs. I only showed the highlights cause the guy said he hasn't seen much of Dragic.

I don't think there's any doubt Mayo is better than Crawford. Dragic & Lopez give you guys an upgrade at 2 positions of need. Carter is just a fill in to make salaries work and who knows maybe he'll be motivated to play ball again. Smith is good but right now I think its fair to say you guys need an upgrade at PG & a true center more than him. Horford can provide the rebounding and defense Smith brings and Lopez is a good defender himself. Also please feel free to hold on to Teague. I could care less if we got him or not but I only included him in the trade cause I thought you guys probably don't want 3 PGs. And yea you trade away a late 1st, which in a weak draft is probably close to nothing. Big deal.

[BAMABIRD]

In reading an article on ajc.com, sounds like Sund is ok with going into the playoffs with the current roster just the way it is. I guess Sund is basically allowing the playoffs to determine where the team really stands. Oh well, guess us fans will have to wait until the off-season to see some real moves. This really sucks because we all know this roster will not make any type of push in playoffs this season.

[HMFFL]

Would you guys do this trade?

Atlanta gets:
Vince Carter (expiring contract)
Goran Dragic
OJ Mayo
Robin Lopez


Atlanta Trades:
Josh Smith
Jamal Crawford
Jeff Teague

It's not appealing for us during the short or longterm, so it's a pass for me. It actually makes no sense at all. The only player I would have any interest in is Goran Dragic, but not at the expense of Josh Smith. Jeff Teague and a future first for Goran Dragic is fair value for both parties.