Draft Talk

[kellmellus50]

Don't shoot the messanger !!! Some professionals are a lot smarter than the amateurs.And you all know who you are i don't have to list them that reminds me liqourish do not answer for me ! i do not answer for you .

My personal draft pick at 13 is WR - Julio Jones could be the best player on lion's board after the first 12

[cochiseuofm]

Not saying professionals don't know what they talk about, but you have to consider that they too are just guessing based on team needs right now. Mocks are fun to read, but they're anything but concrete.

I think the fans would riot, BTW, if we took a WR in the first round. Unless, of course, we were drafting him to trade him later...but that isn't something I think they would do without a deal in place. Trading down might not be a bad option if we can do it though.

[TSE]

Or maybe we trade Calvin Johnson to open up the need to draft a WR with our first pick, or maybe our first two picks?

[ajaX82]

I know TSE will jump on me for saying i know the probability when thats impossible, but im going to go on record as saying we have a 0% chance of taking a WR in the first round

We will not, under any circumstances, be drafting a QB, WR, RB or TE in the first. no chance.

[TSE]

Well the trade of CJ would have to come first. Although, there still could be a good play in taking Julio Jones. I know conventional wisdom would shoot that idea down and I was tempted to as well, but we have Best who can be a potential star at RB, and were good with CJ and Pettigrew, so if you were to come up with another possible weapon for Stafford, well WR 2 is the biggest bang for the buck right now and I don't think it's crazy to want to have a stud player there. It would take the pressure off Best, CJ, and Pettigrew all at the same time, to then open them up more freely and flexibly along with Julio Jones, and that could makes us a wicked scary offense capable of devastating any defense in the NFL. Plus it really secures our WR depth along with Burleson and it's nice to have 3 pretty good WRs anyhow so the pick can indirectly improve the WR3 position. Not a bad idea really. I mean I don't want to do that because I like trade down scenarios too much, but if we don't have a good value pick and the OTs/LBs/CBs left over aren't truly that enticing, then Julio Jones could be an interesting option.

And if you pretend that Julio Jones pans out to be Randy Moss on a fresh career, it makes the visual become clearer to see why this shouldn't be written off as a 0% possibility. I think it's in the top 4 or 5 positions that would make most sense for that pick. The positions that are more unlikely to me for that pick are: OG / C / DT / S / QB / RB / TE and maybe even DE. That's 10/22 starting positions represented there, so half the positions on the team are less likely to be drafted with our first pick than WR the way I see it. Plus, it seems like we might have more prospect youth on a few defensive positions than compared with WR and the coaches might have a good inside feeling to try to develop them more, so I would not be surprised in the least if Mayhew is more apt to take WR than I am, and I'm considering it to some degree, but then again I consider every possible qualified potential angle and don't disqualify anything until I'm absolutely SURE that it's safe to throw an idea into the recycle bin.

[ajaX82]

^ I certainly won't disagree the Julio Jones doesn't look like a really, really good receiver. And to pair him up with CJ would give Stafford just insane weapons to work with. Totally and it is really fun to think about. Who would other teams cover?

The problem is the other holes on the team, plain and simple. Jones may be the best player on the board when we pick. But with other big time needs (OLB, CB, OT), it just doesnt make sense to do it

[TSE]

Let's try this one... suppose I told you I was from the future and could prove it and then told you that Julio Jones becomes a HOFer. Would you draft him if he's on the board or would you take some chump CB over a guaranteed HOF? If you still select the WR, well then imagine what our offense would do with that player. The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if the quality of the WRs is part of the reason you have ruled it out, or under no circumstances could the WRs in this draft possibly impress you enough that you would ever consider it? Suppose CJ had a perfect genetic clone, would you take a 2nd CJ for the team with that pick or still no?

[TSE]

But with other big time needs (OLB, CB, OT), it just doesnt make sense to do it

And looks like we have Backus to play OT, so how would an OT even help us this year? If we want a post-Backus OT we can still do FA in '11 or '12 or draft '12. But this year for sure we are in major need of a WR more than an OT. And possibly LB if Levy is assumed healthy, Dizon could be back we still dont know what he or Follett can do if anything, and we have new guy Palmer that we didn't have before who looks like he will get a roster spot. And for CB we might be signing Chris Houston and we have something interesting with Alphonso and still other picks and FA options to bolster those. But we are dead at WR2 as Burleson is good but I want him as a good 3rd best WR, which leaves us dead and completely void at that critical big WR2 spot which is also highly valuable.

Not to mention we could also be faced with our scouting staff's assessment that Julio Jones is hands down the best BPA on the board during our pick. So we would have to give up the value possibly of taking the best player on the board. Why do that when we have a glaring hole at WR2? I can see why, but I can't see why the idea shouldn't be heavily considered.

[kellmellus50]

If the lions trade down they could pick this slot reciever Jerrel Jernigan rated number 3 he has speed and thats what you want in a slot reciever.

http://football.about.com/od/Wide-Recei ... rnigan.htm


Is Julio Jones the best wide receiver in the 2011 NFL Draft?
to find out you will have to read below.

http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2011/2/9/1 ... -nfl-draft


NFL Draft: Players That Should Have Immediate Betting Impact look who's at #2

http://www.docsports.com/2011/nfl-draft ... t-696.html

[cochiseuofm]

Trading Calvin makes no sense to me unless he wants out. His value is higher than the 1st pick in the 2011 draft. And sure if you could tell me for sure Julio Jones is a Hall of Famer, I'd be for it. But you can't, so that point is moot.

No matter how many awesome WRs the Lions have, it isn't going to change the fact that you win football games by protecting the quarterback and by preventing the other team from scoring. We aren't going to make the playoffs if we have to play three quarterbacks every year. And Suh had a great year, but the defense is far from where it needs to be still.

BTW if you watched us play last year and don't think we need to upgrade the OL...well I just don't know what you were watching then.

Just look at the Packers for an example. Their receiving threats, one of the best in the league, were drafted in the following rounds. Greg Jennings - 2nd round, 52nd overall pick. Jordy Nelson - 2nd round, 36th overall pick. James Jones - 3rd round, 78th overall pick. Donald Driver - 7th round, 213th overall pick. Jermichael Finley - 3rd round, 91st overall pick.

Not one of those guys was a first round pick. It is crazy to me to spend so many first-round picks on a position where there is obvious depth in later rounds year after year.

And this isn't even taking into factor that there are many good WRs in the free agency pool this summer. If we want another #1, Sidney Rice is available. If we want a speedy receiver, there's Santonio Holmes who burned us when we lost to the Jets. And if we want a good slot WR, James Jones, of the Packers, is certainly there. He drops too many balls, but there is no denying his big play ability.

Also no way Jones is better than AJ Green.

[TSE]

Yeah but GB has a highly effective QB, and we may or may not have one as well. And it doesn't matter if you can find an example of another team that built their team differently because the WRs GB found success with are their players, we need successful players of our own and it's up to us to strategize how to get them. LIke RB for example, this was a great year to get a great RB for free in Blount. Every team in the NFL that is looking at long-term strategy should have realized that regardless of their RB need now, the proper play is to still take Blount for free, and then try to nab one free need where you can, cause then you can trade away a RB and fill another need. Well if the Packers found a creative way to fill their WR corps, then good for them, we could have had all of their WRs if we picked those guys in those rounds but we didn't, so now it's on us to find WRs now and it's easy to draft a WR in Rd 1 to fulfill a need. I hate doing that personally because I see so many WRs I can get cheaper and for free cause I like to do things like trade for Santonio Holmes and aggressively use the waiver wire to pluck and plunder my way ahead, but the Lions don't operate that way or play out those options with any serious aggression and thus they put us in this position to having to consider a WR as our first pick cause they can't be relied on to solve that need later.

It doesn't matter how you build your team so long as you get the best 22 guys you can get in the most logical and cost effective way. And for us, the only thing that is guaranteed is that we have bad shape for the draft. There aren't any players or positions that seemingly will fit like a perfect awesome value glove for our pick. We need to move up or down to be in a better sweet spot, that's just my opinion. And so, it's automatic to me that we must do some trading before the draft, and when there's trades and a needs list involved, there's an unlimited number of ways that an order of fulfilling those needs could come about, and drafting Julio Jones fits well with one of those possible paths.

[Piston Pete]

/thread to crap

[TSE]

? What's crappy about this thread?

And if you don't like the thread maybe just stay out of it and not try to interject your useless thoughts of negativity to disrupt the flow of the thread, what does that post intend to serve? I don't get your motives, if you don't have something nice to say or relevant in some way, then what is your goal, just to cause a problem or spoil the enjoyment of others? Rain on somebody else's parade please.

[ajaX82]

back on topic....

NFL draft scout has us taking an OT in their two mocks; Solder in one, Castonzo in the other. I would prefer Solder if given the choice, for my two cents

[Piston Pete]

How many guys would everyone be happy with us drating at #13?

I can only think of three right now. Can anyone add to this list?

1) CB Jimmy Smith (Colorado)
2) CB Prince A. (Nebraska)
3) OT Solder (Colorado)

[kellmellus50]

How many guys would everyone be happy with us drating at #13?

I can only think of three right now. Can anyone add to this list?

1) CB Jimmy Smith (Colorado)
2) CB Prince A. (Nebraska)
3) OT Solder (Colorado)

Your list is obsolete for the third time prince will not be there at 13 and jimmy should be gone too..dream on all you want.

Here's a real list

1) Julio Jones WR
trade down for next 2 players
2) Akeem Ayers OLB
3) Mark Ingram* RB

[Icness]

There is an equal chance Julio Jones is gone than Prince Amukamara for when the Lions pick. Eh, probably more 65/35 in favor of Jones being available.If the run on OTs starts a little early they'll both be there. The Lions are not Jones fans FYI, they've had enough of WRs that are always questionable on the injury report. He is already hinting he's not going to work out in Indy with some as yet undetermined injury. His inability to crack 4.52 in the 40 yet during training is no small part of that

I'll give Jones this: at the LSU/Bama game he didn't back down from Patrick Peterson and even though he got blanked early, he caught two second-half TDs where he made Peterson look silly on one of them. He was too big and physical for Peterson to handle and Peterson will be the among the biggest CBs in the league.

Calvin Johnson is bigger but he's also a much better downfield threat. The guy Jones most easily compares to is Roy Williams and we saw what he can, and cannot, do. I think Jones would make a great foil, but when there are so many other holes you can't burn a high pick on a #2 wideout. I would much rather the Lions use free agency to shore up WR. Some of the names there: Braylon Edwards (hell no IMO), Steve Smith (the Giant), Sidney Rice (not likely to leave MIN), Santonio Holmes (it's either him or Braylon with the Jets, they won't both be back), James Jones, Mark Clayton (the Ram) but here's the two guys I can see the Lions legitmately chasing:
Mike Sims-Walker and Steve Breaston

They fit need-wise, they fit price-wise, and both have little interest in going back to their current teams.

[cochiseuofm]

Your list is obsolete for the third time prince will not be there at 13 and jimmy should be gone too..dream on all you want.

Here's a real list

1) Julio Jones WR
trade down for next 2 players
2) Akeem Ayers OLB
3) Mark Ingram* RB

Until Prince is actually drafted before us, that list is not obsolete. For the second time, what some random sports writer thinks right now does not guarentee that Prince isn't going to be available at our pick.

And NFL teams never discount who might be available at their pick. They will work out who they like and make a big board with players they might never have a chance at, just in case they fall to them.

And finally, Pete's list was who we would be happy with getting at #13, not necessarilly who will be available. I would be furious if the Lions drafted Julio Jones or Mark Ingram, neither is what the team needs in the first round.

[ajaX82]

There is an equal chance Julio Jones is gone than Prince Amukamara for when the Lions pick. Eh, probably more 65/35 in favor of Jones being available.If the run on OTs starts a little early they'll both be there. The Lions are not Jones fans FYI, they've had enough of WRs that are always questionable on the injury report. He is already hinting he's not going to work out in Indy with some as yet undetermined injury. His inability to crack 4.52 in the 40 yet during training is no small part of that

I'll give Jones this: at the LSU/Bama game he didn't back down from Patrick Peterson and even though he got blanked early, he caught two second-half TDs where he made Peterson look silly on one of them. He was too big and physical for Peterson to handle and Peterson will be the among the biggest CBs in the league.

Calvin Johnson is bigger but he's also a much better downfield threat. The guy Jones most easily compares to is Roy Williams and we saw what he can, and cannot, do. I think Jones would make a great foil, but when there are so many other holes you can't burn a high pick on a #2 wideout. I would much rather the Lions use free agency to shore up WR. Some of the names there: Braylon Edwards (hell no IMO), Steve Smith (the Giant), Sidney Rice (not likely to leave MIN), Santonio Holmes (it's either him or Braylon with the Jets, they won't both be back), James Jones, Mark Clayton (the Ram) but here's the two guys I can see the Lions legitmately chasing:
Mike Sims-Walker and Steve Breaston

They fit need-wise, they fit price-wise, and both have little interest in going back to their current teams.

Steve Breaston would be a nice #2 and compliment to CJ and Burleson. And since he played at Michigan, maybe he wants to come home?

And i 100% agree, and said earlier, that drafting a WR so high is not smart when you have other much more pressing needs.

[kellmellus50]

This is whAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING .

NFL Network analyst: Lions not likely to get prime cornerback at No. 13
Chris McCosky / The Detroit News


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110217/SPO ... z1EHMwfiD4