[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

[Future Soldier]

I really dont want to lose Cock no homo but Melo's production will make up for both he and Wil's output. As long as we keep Moz and Fields, I guess thats ok. I would have preferred to hold on to Gallo along with those two, but we need this over with. Gotta secure the dude while he's ripe for the taking no homo

[darthkiller]

Assuming the deal is Chandler, Curry, Gallo, and Felton for 'Melo and Billups (in essence), then we would look like this:

Moz, Amare, 'Melo, Fields, Billups w/ Williams, Toney, and Turiaf off the bench. I think that's enough to at least get to the 2nd round.

Then you gotta assume that Billups may be bought out in the off-season and cheap pieces put in place to set up the 2012 cap space. I'm not a fan of having big 3's, but if it's there, I wouldn't turn it down.

Who plays PG then next season?

People have to stop with this 2012 stuff. It is very unrealistic, and we need to win games until then.

I've been wondering the same thing. Billups contract is up after this season so if we trade away Ray who will be our PG next year???

billups 's contract has another year team option on it..

we can just pick it up and have it expire before summer of 2012 if we wanted to

[towelie]

I think its inevitable we end up trading Gallo or Fields. Im ready to make the sacrifice. I think Donnie is under too much pressure to get this done and doesnt want this to drag out another 5 months. Im getting that vibe.

I think that's the case if Donnie is adamant about not getting any long contracts past 2012. I used to think that Felton could be a viable option for us at point long-term, and DW would've been willing to take back Harrington or Birdman if it got us Melo. ie. Forego the 2012 dream and build around Felton/Melo/Amar'e right now. However, if the 2012 dream is alive, there's no way a Chandler/AR package alone gets it done. Anyone who thinks we can get Melo for an RFA and a non-rotation player is smoking some hash, money savings be damned.

In the end, the final deal will either add in Gallo OR Fields (not both)

OR

We're taking back Harrington and/or Birdman

Some extra picks are likely also thrown in (2014 1st, GS' 2012 2nd) to Denver/Minnesota to complete the deal.

[GONYK]

I think its inevitable we end up trading Gallo or Fields. Im ready to make the sacrifice. I think Donnie is under too much pressure to get this done and doesnt want this to drag out another 5 months. Im getting that vibe.

I think that's the case if Donnie is adamant about not getting any long contracts past 2012. I used to think that Felton could be a viable option for us at point long-term, and DW would've been willing to take back Harrington or Birdman if it got us Melo. ie. Forego the 2012 dream and build around Felton/Melo/Amar'e right now. However, if the 2012 dream is alive, there's no way a Chandler/AR package alone gets it done. Anyone who thinks we can get Melo for an RFA and a non-rotation player is smoking some hash, money savings be damned.

In the end, the final deal will either add in Gallo OR Fields (not both)

OR

We're taking back Harrington and/or Birdman

Some extra picks are likely also thrown in (2014 1st, GS' 2012 2nd) to Denver/Minnesota to complete the deal.

The 2012 dream is not alive. With Amare and Melo both getting MAX deals, the only way we acquire a third star is if that star takes a MAJOR paycut. We won't have the assets to get him via trade.

[sol537]

if Billups plays well and is healthy, I can see us taking the last year of his contract (or possibly doing a buy out to save $ and then re-signing if that's possible?). He'd still expire by the '12 season leaving us with space. We'd be flexible enough to play the market in the '11 season and/or '12 season depending on which players we want to target. It's a great situation to be in IMO.

Chandler and Gallo's contracts would not hinder us. That starting unit can compete with anyone in the east IMO. Probably wouldn't go all the way due to a lack of cohesion or chemistry this season but that team wouldn't be an easy out in a 7-game series.

[knicks742]

Mozzy and Fields must stay. Fields because he already plays like a vet and would be a good role player next to Amaremelo and Mozzy because you can't teach height. I hope that it's sufficient for Denver, I am getting the feeling they are going to be stubborn about this and may end up keeping him.

[GONYK]

Mozzy and Fields must stay. Fields because he already plays like a vet and would be a good role player next to Amaremelo and Mozzy because you can't teach height. I hope that it's sufficient for Denver, I am getting the feeling they are going to be stubborn about this and may end up keeping him.

Denver isn't keeping him

[Future Soldier]

I would hope Melo would understand Donnie not wanting to give up EVERYTHING to get him, as he obviously must want something resembling a roster by the time he gets to us.

[moocow007]

alanhahn Alan Hahn
To those who harp on overpaying for Carmelo, a legit superstar, may I quote Q-Tip for you: "Scared money don't make none."
6 minutes ago

alanhahn Alan Hahn
via @johncanzanobft: Blazers not interested in Anthony Randolph bc of "character issues." Not bad kid, just needs to drop "too cool" facade
11 minutes ago

Ok, so which of their two bad contracts do we want?
Al or Birdman?
And if we do that then they cannot have all three of our guys.
Wilson, AR (pick), Fields (or Gallo), Brewer, Bill Walker (I heard they like him) and two second rounders at most.

Birdman and JR Smith would be who I want back.

Smith would add depth at the SG and SF positions (what you'd lose by dealing Chandler AND either Gallinari or Fields). He's a top notch rebounder, defender and can shoot 3's. HE has character issues (speaking of character issues) but the guy is without a doubt talented (during a recent nationally televised game the announcers actually said that many scouts believe that JR Smith is among the most talented SG's in the Western Conference and that it's really just his "knuckleheadedness" that keeps him from being elite. If the Knicks are going to go all in then the more guns the better.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Mozzy and Fields must stay. Fields because he already plays like a vet and would be a good role player next to Amaremelo and Mozzy because you can't teach height. I hope that it's sufficient for Denver, I am getting the feeling they are going to be stubborn about this and may end up keeping him.

Denver isn't keeping him

How can you be sure?
Our gain is their loss (in the minds and hearts of Denver's FO).
And I know no one buys this, but what if they keep him and either win the whole thing or realize that the West is more open than it appears?
If you are right (and I hope you are) then we should offer Bill Walker, AR, Corey Brewer and a pick (via Minnie).
Offer that and stick to it.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

@ Moo
I don't consider JR's contract an issue since he's expiring. The contracts they'd push on us are Bird, Billups and Al.

[thisiskoz]

I think its inevitable we end up trading Gallo or Fields. Im ready to make the sacrifice. I think Donnie is under too much pressure to get this done and doesnt want this to drag out another 5 months. Im getting that vibe.

I think that's the case if Donnie is adamant about not getting any long contracts past 2012. I used to think that Felton could be a viable option for us at point long-term, and DW would've been willing to take back Harrington or Birdman if it got us Melo. ie. Forego the 2012 dream and build around Felton/Melo/Amar'e right now. However, if the 2012 dream is alive, there's no way a Chandler/AR package alone gets it done. Anyone who thinks we can get Melo for an RFA and a non-rotation player is smoking some hash, money savings be damned.

In the end, the final deal will either add in Gallo OR Fields (not both)

OR

We're taking back Harrington and/or Birdman

Some extra picks are likely also thrown in (2014 1st, GS' 2012 2nd) to Denver/Minnesota to complete the deal.

this has long been how i view the situation... its important not to take a double hit in terms of flexibility... losing both a young prospect AND taking back an undesirable contract is simply not a savvy move... walsh i believe understands this... and ideally we may have a situation in which denver is afforded some sort of choice between options... and remains up to them to choose what most benefits them while still being within the confines of what makes sense to us...

[GONYK]

Mozzy and Fields must stay. Fields because he already plays like a vet and would be a good role player next to Amaremelo and Mozzy because you can't teach height. I hope that it's sufficient for Denver, I am getting the feeling they are going to be stubborn about this and may end up keeping him.

Denver isn't keeping him

How can you be sure?
Our gain is their loss (in the minds and hearts of Denver's FO).
And I know no one buys this, but what if they keep him and either win the whole thing or realize that the West is more open than it appears?
If you are right (and I hope you are) then we should offer Bill Walker, AR, Corey Brewer and a pick (via Minnie).
Offer that and stick to it.

Denver doesn't even think they can win it all this season, hence them renting out the Pepsi center to the WWE right in the middle of the WCF.

[The Rebel]

Denver doesn't even think they can win it all this season, hence them renting out the Pepsi center to the WWE right in the middle of the WCF.

You realize that stuff happens all the time do you not? The staples center had the same problem last year, they had a concert scheduled long before the playoff schedules came out. Does that mean that Buss did not think the Lakers were going to the western conference finals? Or does it mean that the NBA sets the schedule and the arenas have to adjust theirs? Which is how this stuff works. The WWE just figured it was a good time to get some free publicity.

[dadanyk]

Has there been any mention about JR Smith maybe being included

[GONYK]

Denver doesn't even think they can win it all this season, hence them renting out the Pepsi center to the WWE right in the middle of the WCF.

You realize that stuff happens all the time do you not? The staples center had the same problem last year, they had a concert scheduled long before the playoff schedules came out. Does that mean that Buss did not think the Lakers were going to the western conference finals? Or does it mean that the NBA sets the schedule and the arenas have to adjust theirs? Which is hgwo this stuff works.

Do you think you guys are winning it all this year?

[falcindor]

Denver undoubtedly is asking the highest price in history for a player. I can't think of a steeper price ever. Knicks should string them along and drop them last minute. Denver GM has basically got himself fired already. He has the rep as the most unreasonable GM in the NBA. How are you going to ask for 3 studs and 2 first rounders for a guy your going to lose anyway.

[towelie]

I think its inevitable we end up trading Gallo or Fields. Im ready to make the sacrifice. I think Donnie is under too much pressure to get this done and doesnt want this to drag out another 5 months. Im getting that vibe.

I think that's the case if Donnie is adamant about not getting any long contracts past 2012. I used to think that Felton could be a viable option for us at point long-term, and DW would've been willing to take back Harrington or Birdman if it got us Melo. ie. Forego the 2012 dream and build around Felton/Melo/Amar'e right now. However, if the 2012 dream is alive, there's no way a Chandler/AR package alone gets it done. Anyone who thinks we can get Melo for an RFA and a non-rotation player is smoking some hash, money savings be damned.

In the end, the final deal will either add in Gallo OR Fields (not both)

OR

We're taking back Harrington and/or Birdman

Some extra picks are likely also thrown in (2014 1st, GS' 2012 2nd) to Denver/Minnesota to complete the deal.

The 2012 dream is not alive. With Amare and Melo both getting MAX deals, the only way we acquire a third star is if that star takes a MAJOR paycut. We won't have the assets to get him via trade.

Did the math earlier but technically, if we renounce everyone but Douglas (that includes Mozgov, whose contract is only partially guaranteed, and Fields), we'd have about $16-17M in cap space, which is where Paul's max would end up. But that's with the current CBA and there's too much speculation to say whether or not we will have the space to sign a third max. We could also ask Fields to sign a 1-yr $2-3M deal, giving us full bird rights to resign him after his 3rd year, to try to squeeze him in. We could also ask Melo to forego the raise from 2011 to 2012 once we do get him.

If the new CBA restricts us from signing a 3rd max, I think DW is fine with simply bringing back Felton and resigning our other FA's. I think that more than anything is the reason he's not willing to give up Felton for Billups. Sure Billups' contract ends in 2012 too, but if we can't get that 3rd max, at least we can still roll with Felton for the future, while w/ Billups, we'd have to search for a new starting point guard.

[falcindor]

I hope Melo roasts the organization handling of this. This week Denver must be nervous. An off comment by Melo or agent can sink the idea of resigning. Which would kill the notion that he can keep Melo

[BLACKFEET 2010]

I think if we reach an agreement with Denver, I can see Melo negotiating a contract (in the extend and trade) that leaves room enough to get another MAX guy in 2012. I don't think he'd be opposed. He knows what we are trying to do and that he is not the final piece. He said he isn't basing his decisions on money. Let's see.