[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

[johnnywishbone]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

Very good first post and summary of the situation. I think you hit the nail on the head.

[GONYK]

maybe in D'antoni's system he'll learn to share the ball. You have to if you want it to be successful. Never know. *shrug*

Being more willing to pass and having the ability to make plays for others are two different things. I do have some hope for his efficiency though under SSOL.

[frogfood]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

Very good first post and summary of the situation. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, good post. At the end of the day, Wilson Chandler is not worth the PR hit they'll take.

[King of Troy]

Never make decisions on "maybes."

Maybe Carmelo falls into Amare and ends his career.

Maybe Carmelo becomes Michael Jordan.

Maybe Carmelo grows wings and starts shooting fire out of his ass.

These all "may" happen. All we can do is look at what Carmelo has done, and as to this date he has not shown the ability to make those around him better via playmaking or setting a tone defensively.

[GONYK]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

Very good first post and summary of the situation. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Agreed, good post. At the end of the day, Wilson Chandler is not worth the PR hit they'll take.

Wilson Chandler isn't worth the PR hit, but the 2nd rounder we will give for Melo in the summer is?

[K_ick_God]

So KG, what method do you recommend to getting to greatness other than getting Melo. I think this is the closest we could EVER get.
How else would the Knicks have arguably 2 of the TOP TEN PLAYERS IN THE NBA. 2 ALL STAR STARTERS!

I understand, yes we need role players but theyll come. Look at Miami. Yes right now there lacking depth. Give them the offseason, im sure theyll be able to get a center to take a discount and join them. It will happen eventually but you have to make sure you have the the foundation of a Great team and that starts with Great Players.

Amare and Melo are both better players than anybody the Hawks Have

I think Fields is an excellent young player, Mozgov could develop into a major force, and we would have trade/cap flexibility over the next couple of years with Chandler and Gallo as good assets who are also coming off the books. The 2012 crop with Paul and Howard seems to fit better next to Amar'e than Melo.

[johnnywishbone]

Troy ,

I am enjoying this friendly debate . The bottom line to me is having a team that can win 50 plus and contend and in the end making a title run. I just dont see how guys like Gallo and Mosgov put us there. We do not know if we can sign Melo outright there are alot of what ifs in that . Who knows what the new CBA will bring. I think that have a core of Felton - Fields- Melo -Amare can compete for a tile if the right role players are around them. I Amare needs Melo in my opinion it would make his life easier and make him last longer . Maybe i am over rating Anthony i just think he is a top 15 player at worst and those guys are hard to find

I agree that Melo is a top15 player. However, I do not see Melo and Amare forming a championship caliber team.

If it was Chris Paul or Deron Williams, then yes. Then I think role players can come in and form a very good team. However, I don't think having two guys at the 3 and 4 spot, who don't play defense, can lead to a championship. A transcendent point guard I believe would take us to another level. However, I do not think that a 3 and a 4, no matter how good offensively, could do that. I honestly believe that a PG like Paul or William would lead to a greater team efficiency on the offensive end then Melo would. We'd have two great scoring players with those two, but a PG would make the team better as a whole, and it would be from there that we can improve through role players.

That is why I don't want to give up a lot of depth for Melo, because he doesn't have the ability to make the entire team better like a great PG. He does not orchestrate an offense. Because we are investing so much in these two guys, who do not play defense, our offense must be as efficient as possible, and this will not be the case when our two star players are a 3 and a 4.

So, if we are going to get Melo, we then need to maintain depth as much as possible. We won't have the luxury of being able to make mediocre talent look good like Steve Nash did in Phoenix. We lack an orchestrator to boost their levels of play. Instead we have two grind it out scorerers, and to win with them we need to maximize the talent around them to compensate for their defensive inability, and to provide offensive option to help aid their efficiency by providing threats off the ball and prevent double and triple teaming.

To me, it is problematic because while Melo may very well indeed resign or go elsewhere if we do not trade for him, I think it is a risk we must take. If we give all our depth up for him, I do not see us as having any chance of winning a championship. However, if we do risk it, I think we do have a
chance. This is why I believe we should take the risk of trying to sign him as a FA.

Here is an excellent analysis by one the premier statisticians on the planet right now:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... about-him/

In this article Nate Silver describes why Carmelo Anthony does make his teammates much better.

[Fat Man]

From Sheridan's chat today:

Amir NY [via mobile]
RE: Melo's recent comment about maybe resigning in Denver. Could he possibly be tricking the Nuggets into believing him and in the end, leave them with nothing, after hearing so many undesirable teams being mentioned in his possible trade? His body language in games seems to indicate he is very irritated with all this Denver nonsense.

Chris Sheridan
(2:14 PM)
He has always said publicly he is keeping all his options open, so that comment did not strike me as too much of a departure from what he had been saying publicly all season. As for his body language, all I can read is the language of a guy who has been tearing it up. As as I wrote in my most recent Knicks column on the ESPNNework site, the Knicks are making a massive mistake if they are unwilling to budge off a lowball offer. I imagine three words sum it up best: To Be Continued ...

Chris (NJ)
Where will Steve Nash end up this summer. Do you think the Lakers can get him.

Chris Sheridan
(2:33 PM)
If the Knicks succeed in getting Amar'e (I think he meant Melo), I expect them to target Nash as the final piece. He'll come cheaper than either Dwight/Deron/CP3 as UFA in '12, for whom Knicks would have to clear virtually everyone off their payroll a la what the Heat did last summer.

Fred (Brooklyn)
What's the consensus around the league -- executives or players -- on what the Knicks should do?

Chris Sheridan
(2:43 PM)
As Kobe Bryant said at MSG on Friday night, the Knicks have a few nice pieces, but who are we kidding? He, like most folks around the NBA, believe they should do whatever is necessary to get Melo and team him with Amar'e for the next four-plus years. It's the only way they have a whiff of a chance against Miami while their big three is under contract.

JD (VA)
This whole drama with Melo and the Nuggets reminds me a few years back to Kobe and the Lakers. Does this make like an accurate correlation and if so does the outcome stay true where the Nuggets end up keeping Melo?

Chris Sheridan
(2:48 PM)
That one lasted a long time too, the entire summer actually, and didn't die until the eve of the regular season. But that one was much more under the radar than this one, which has been a season-long story since the preseason. As for the outcome, I see that being determined by whether the Knicks are willing to make a realistically fair offer. Denver will not trade him for only Curry, Chandler and Randolph, IMO, because they'd be getting fleeced, would look like fools and would alienate their fan base. They would be better off keeping him, rolling the dice in the playoffs and then seeing whether the pressure of letting all that money go would force Anthony into either signing, or amending his contract after the season and dropping his ETO, which would make him trade-eligible again from the end of the season through June 30.

David (New York)
Seems like Donnie Walsh is just waiting until closer to deadline to show his hand. Doesn't make sense to do it now since Denver will wait til next week anyway. Your thoughts?

Chris Sheridan
(2:59 PM)
Certainly seems that way, but not a lot of people know exactly what combinations of players Donnie has put out there, and which long contracts the Nuggets want him to take back along with Melo. Remember, if Knicks have to take back long money (such as Al Harrington), it impedes their future cap flexibility and their ability to get a third max player. But at the end of the day, I say a three-max goal is a pipe-dream for them, and if they have to take on Al H., go ahead and do it and try to keep him and Mike D'Antoni from being alone too long in a room together. Then go and try to get Nash over the summer.

[Jordan45822]

incarceratedbob incarcerated bob
New Carmelo Rumor (Just a rumor right now) coming in the morning. A new twist to #NBA #Superstar #Drama #Knicks #Nuggets #MysteryTeam


Daily incarceratedbob crap.

Whoever this guy is (that seems to be most of the time wrong) claims that the Bobcats are making run at CA. No offers has been made but Jordan has called Denver owndership personally and it might get "hot" soon. And that Jordan would rent him now and try to convince him to stay later.

[GONYK]

Here is an excellent analysis by one the premier statisticians on the planet right now:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... about-him/

In this article Nate Silver describes why Carmelo Anthony does make his teammates much better.

All that article states is that Melo draws significant defensive attention, thus giving his teammates cleaner looks. So in essence, he doesn't actively do anything. I can say the same thing about Amare.

[TrueWarrior]

Here is an excellent analysis by one the premier statisticians on the planet right now:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.co ... about-him/

In this article Nate Silver describes why Carmelo Anthony does make his teammates much better.

And it was quickly refuted by this:
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2011/01/17/ ... ate-silver’s-melo-effect/

I actually made a thread on Silver's analysis, but there are way too many flaws in his argument.

All we can do is just wait and see.

[drp07644]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

[K_ick_God]

As a footnote, I find this talk about how Mike D'Antoni didn't like Al Harrington to be funny. It's the stuff that you hear people say that I don't think really watched the Knicks the last couple years. I've never seen a player given more leeway or minutes or shots than Al Harrington got under MD. He was THE featured player in the offense and, to my eyes, a total favorite of MD.

[smw6230]

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

Once again, a franchise tag will not be of any use to Denver in the current Carmelo Anthony situation. Anthony signed his contract under terms of the existing CBA terms. Those terms allow him to terminate his contract a year early (opt out) . Once he exercises that opt-out clause he will be a free agent and the Denver Nuggets will no longer hold his rights.

If a 'tag' is a part of a new labor deal Denver cannot apply it to Anthony because they will not hold his rights to apply the tag under. Or to state it another way, they can't claim him as their "franchise player" because he won't belong to their franchise.

They can't just apply it retroactively to a player whom they no longer hold rights to. That would be illegal.

[GONYK]

As a footnote, I find this talk about how Mike D'Antoni didn't like Al Harrington to be funny. It's the stuff that you hear people say that I don't think really watched the Knicks the last couple years. I've never seen a player given more leeway or minutes or shots than Al Harrington got under MD. He was THE featured player in the offense and, to my eyes, a total favorite of MD.

D'Antoni didn't really have a choice but to feature him in the offense, whether he liked him or not

[MaseInYourFace]

Sheridan making a lot of sense...

[falcindor]

This is my first time posting on this site, but I've been reading for weeks waiting for that day I check and see that Melo is a knick, here are my two cents:


1) Denver really reallly really really doesn't want to trade Melo unless they are blown away by an offer

2) Nuggets still believe as crazy as it may seem that Melo will sign the extension

3) Nuggets are hopeful that if there is a new CBA that something like a franchise tag will be put on players

4) Knicks do not want to give up everything for Melo

5) They might want to take the risk of signing him as a Free Agent







If the nugget hope there's a franchise tag it wouldn't be implemented this year. If the NBA puts in a hard cap It would definitely not be as low as the soft cap.

6) Dolan and most fans want Melo now

7) Donnie wants to make a trade, but Denver will never say the offer the knicks have is good enough

End result and is just a prediction: Melo stays with Denver. I think despite the knicks attempts, Denver would rather hold onto him and get Lebron'd then trade him to the knicks. I think the Denver front office will take a huge PR hit if they trade him to the knicks, I think they will find it easier to let him go, and then paint Melo as the villian

[St Knick]

No new news... reading this thread makes me think...

[NYKat]

Never make decisions on "maybes."

Maybe Carmelo falls into Amare and ends his career.

Maybe Carmelo becomes Michael Jordan.

Maybe Carmelo grows wings and starts shooting fire out of his ass.

These all "may" happen. All we can do is look at what Carmelo has done, and as to this date he has not shown the ability to make those around him better via playmaking or setting a tone defensively.

The question is are we better off building around Amare/Melo/Felton or keeping the status quo going?

If we stand pat we are no better than a team with Melo and most likely worse

[MaseInYourFace]

As a footnote, I find this talk about how Mike D'Antoni didn't like Al Harrington to be funny. It's the stuff that you hear people say that I don't think really watched the Knicks the last couple years. I've never seen a player given more leeway or minutes or shots than Al Harrington got under MD. He was THE featured player in the offense and, to my eyes, a total favorite of MD.

Yeah I don't really buy that either. But Harrington said some things later that were kind of bitter and sort of directed at DAntoni. I think Harrington was jealous of Gallo and Chandler. I think he wanted Knicks to look at him the way they look at those guys which is crazy considering Harrington is what he is...

But your right Dantoni played him and featured him quite a bit...