This Ain't Old School Kindergarten Maybe

retiredcoach · Post #1 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:53 pm

D. Cousins, rookie, is getting left home because he's a spoiled 20 year old. I think this sums it up for what Sloan and Johnson didn't particularly like about this era and the players in it.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2011/02/13/dema ... kings-nba/

Imagine of Hayward decided to pitch a fit every time he felt he didn't enough touches!

kebutah · Post #2 » by **kebutah** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:01 pm

Cousins was upset that Evans has a free hand to do whatever he wants at the end of games, and he feels that it is costing the team wins. He was supported by several veterans on the team.

jazzed77 · Post #3 » by **jazzed77** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:54 pm

kebutah wrote:Cousins was upset that Evans has a free hand to do whatever he wants at the end of games, and he feels that it is costing the team wins. He was supported by several veterans on the team.

doesn't matter....players should NEVER question a coaches decisions....can't have the inmates running the asylum...... :roll:

retiredcoach · Post #4 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:24 pm

It's fine to question the way a coach manages a team. The issue is where does the questioning take place. In the press, on the court, in the locker room or maybe in a player coach meeting.

I don't care what problems a player feels are at issue. It's not okay to start fights in the locker room with teammates, coaches, staff or the towel boy.

I made it a point to talk to each player individually every few weeks, and more often if I could see they were stressed about something. However, some coaches don't spend time trying to figure out what's going on in the heads of the athlete's. The reason they don't talk more to the players one on one is because this generation of players doesn't want to have a conversation in order to understand what's going on. They think if they have a talk with a coach, the coach has to change their mind and do what the player wants, or it's sign of the big D, "disrespect."

Players use code words like "the coach doesn't listen to me" or "he disrespects me as a man" or other similar vague BS. The bottom line is the player wants their way, and if they don't get it, then it's because someone, the coach, management, the other players, or their momma, isn't listening to them.

retiredcoach · Post #5 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:25 pm

Apparently CJ and Williams will now have the green light to do whatever they want. That's not likely to work out well.

Neon Black · Post #6 » by **Neon Black** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:28 pm

I agree kebutah in that he's justified at being upset and with 'coach that this is the wrong way to go about it. It really is reflective on the state of the NBA and the mindset of its players.

jazzed77 · Post #7 » by **jazzed77** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:45 pm

retiredcoach wrote:Apparently CJ and Williams will now have the green light to do whatever they want. That's not likely to work out well.

you musta been sum coach that you know the jazz's future offensive plans based on one game where they were a. very shorthanded and b.one day away from what might be the greatest controversy in franchise history

retiredcoach · Post #8 » by **retiredcoach** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:09 am

Apparently CJ and Williams will now have the green light to do whatever they want. That's not likely to work out well.

I didn't base what I said on one game. I based it on things I've been told about differences between what Sloan wanted, how Corbin thinks and what Williams has suggested to him.

If what I've been told is correct, Corbin's system will have more flexibility for Williams and others to create scoring options. Williams and CJ are close. Williams wants CJ to start at the 2. If CJ starts at the 2, then there's a high probability he will be on the floor in the critical last 4 minutes.

In my opinion, mismanagement of those 4 minutes have cost the Jazz at least 4 games, if not more.

Everyone goes into a new coaching position (or any other management job for that matter) with a vision of how they're going to do things, their personal values, scheme's for how they want to handle situations, and a certain sense of ethical and professional views. Twenty games in, if they win, they're convinced it was because their vision of things was correct. If they lose, they start to rethink everything, and everybody starts losing at some point. It's tough to hang on to those values and management philosophies day in and day out when everyone is riding your ass for something.

I think Corbin is going to try things the way I described. He may not. Corbin might turn out to be more controlling and system oriented than I think he will be. Looking at who he played for, I don't think so, but becoming a head coach and feeling the constant pressure to win changes a person. This isn't marbles being played on a dirt patch. It's big money for everyone concerned. If Corbin lasts as a coach, he'll make more money coaching than he did playing, so he's got a lot to lose as does the Miller group, and perhaps several of the lower paid players. Williams, Millsap, AK, and Jefferson will come out financially no matter what because they can go somewhere else, or the Jazz have to pay them or lose them. Either way--same difference financially.

If the Jazz fail to turn the situation around, either this year or next year (if there's no lockout), it could potentially cost Corbin $20 to $30 million dollars in future earnings, Hayward, Evans, and CJ could each lose $10 million plus in future earnings, and Price and Watson could lose $3 to $5 million each. Okur and Bell are about done so it's not much of a factor for them.

So I hope whatever Corbin decides to do works out.

nyjazz · Post #9 » by **nyjazz** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:56 pm

I don't get it. Its Williams this and Williams that, like he with his years of playing the game somehow trumps Sloan's nearly 30 years of studying the game.

It has to be said, and I want anyone who can say otherwise to please come forth, the Jazz has always played their best games when they have played within Sloan's system, shared the ball, set hard picks, cut hard, and followed instructions. The Jazz has always played poorly when they have been freelancing and tried to be superstars.

And I think that goes for Deron also. I can't count how many losing games I have watched where Deron has put up great numbers but where the flow of the offense was non-existent and I left wondering if Deron's seemingly great play actually interrupted and impeded the offense or if the other players just didn't pull their weight that particular evening so Deron had to step up. Deron is a great player and can get points in a hurry if he wants to but the Jazz has been more competitive when they come in the flow of the system.

I think the Jazz will struggle more as Deron moves away from playing within the system. He will probably put up better and better numbers but it will not make the Jazz better.

jazzed77 · Post #10 » by **jazzed77** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:36 pm

@ retired: so now you are both a retired coach and someone with "inside" knowledge of the Jazz organization???

@nyjazz: there is such a small sample size of games where the Jazz have not played Sloan's offense and so many reasons they didn't follow it(injuries, working in new players etc.) that I doubt anyone can make any real calls on it.....

QuantumMacgyver · Post #11 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:32 pm

jazzed77 wrote:@ retired: so now you are both a retired coach and someone with "inside" knowledge of the Jazz organization???

@nyjazz: there is such a small sample size of games where the Jazz have not played Sloan's offense and so many reasons they didn't follow it(injuries, working in new players etc.) that I doubt anyone can make any real calls on it.....

Hot dog!!!!!!! retiredcoach is JERRY SLOAN!!!!!!!!

retiredcoach · Post #12 » by **retiredcoach** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:55 pm

The proof I'm not Jerry Sloan---I have a twitter account!

Neon Black · Post #13 » by **Neon Black** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:05 pm

If Deron is that close too CJ then we're screwed. It means CJ is here as long as Deron is.

QuantumMacgyver · Post #14 » by **QuantumMacgyver** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:26 pm

retiredcoach wrote:The proof I'm not Jerry Sloan---I have a twitter account!

Yeah good point, and I guess that you are on a forum should have clued me into the fact that you even know what the "interweb" is. Bummer, I was gonna thank you, and also ask where you buy gloves for your amazingly-giant, banana hands.

Neon Black wrote:If Deron is that close too CJ then we're screwed. It means CJ is here as long as Deron is.

Maybe Deron is cursed and if you become best buds with him, then the Jazz will get rid of you. CJ this year(hopefully), Brewer last year, and don't forget good ol' Dee Brown! If that's true then we all need to ensure Deron never becomes best friends with The Bear!

Neon Black · Post #15 » by **Neon Black** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:49 pm

QuantumMacgyver wrote:
retiredcoach wrote:The proof I'm not Jerry Sloan---I have a twitter account!

Yeah good point, and I guess that you are on a forum should have clued me into the fact that you even know what the "interweb" is. Bummer, I was gonna thank you, and also ask where you buy gloves for your amazingly-giant, banana hands.

Neon Black wrote:If Deron is that close too CJ then we're screwed. It means CJ is here as long as Deron is.

Maybe Deron is cursed and if you become best buds with him, then the Jazz will get rid of you. CJ this year(hopefully), Brewer last year, and don't forget good ol' Dee Brown! If that's true then we all need to ensure Deron never becomes best friends with The Bear!

Maybe Deron and the thermwise guy can become best buds then.