Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[Dat2U]

Leadership by example (i.e. Hinrich or Jamison) isn't real leadership. And Hinrich's "subtle" influence completely lost a roster filled with knuckleheads.

Also its hard to provide real leadership when your consistently injured and not playing (i.e. Howard). It doesn't really make sense to pay a guy who can't even stay upright for half the team's games.

This roster does not have a player that can provide suitable leadership as of yet. Maybe Wall can be that guy in another year or two but not yet. If the Wizards want to add veteran leadership they'll need to go out and acquire that guy.

[nate33]

Do you think Howard is going to be hurt for the rest of his career?

If Howard plays the majority of these remaining 30 games, then I see no reason to expect that he'll be hurt all next year. Sure, he'll miss his usual 10-20 games, but that's okay given the role we're asking him to play.

The bottom line is that no perfect "veteran leader" exists. We need a guy who is good enough for the youngsters to look up to, hard-working enough to set an example and charismatic enough to inspire. He needs to play a position of need, be willing to play on our woeful basketball team, and be cheap enough that we can offload him by 2012.

Now you're asking for him to play all 82 games. Screw that. If I can find a guy that meets all these criteria for 62 games, I'll take it. Howard is a damn good fit. (Like I said, my only caveat is cap room. If, by not signing Howard, we end up with enough cap room to be useful in the acquisition of a core piece, then we shouldn't resign Howard.)

[closg00]

It's time to trade Kirk.

I think one way or the other Nick will be back next year. I also think Howard will too as the primary backup to both wing positions, if not as the starting SF.

Shakur or PG TBA can handle the backup point duties.

Let's get some value for Kirk. Ideally it would be more than straight expirings, but even if it is, we'll have gotten Seraphin essentially for free. If we can squeeze another pick or prospect out of irk, it would be awesome.

Agree, agree, agree. Some playoff would love to have Kirk and he expires next year. I hope Ernie is working the phones.

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

Do you think Howard is going to be hurt for the rest of his career?

If Howard plays the majority of these remaining 30 games, then I see no reason to expect that he'll be hurt all next year. Sure, he'll miss his usual 10-20 games, but that's okay given the role we're asking him to play.

The bottom line is that no perfect "veteran leader" exists. We need a guy who is good enough for the youngsters to look up to, hard-working enough to set an example and charismatic enough to inspire. He needs to play a position of need, be willing to play on our woeful basketball team, and be cheap enough that we can offload him by 2012.

Now you're asking for him to play all 82 games. Screw that. If I can find a guy that meets all these criteria for 62 games, I'll take it. Howard is a damn good fit. (Like I said, my only caveat is cap room. If, by not signing Howard, we end up with enough cap room to be useful in the acquisition of a core piece, then we shouldn't resign Howard.)

The only thing I don't love about a healthy Howard for this team is that he isn't, in general, a defense stretcher. Given Wall's lack of range/shooting touch and the fact that we typically don't have a three point shooter at the 4 or the 5... a lineup of Wall, Nick, Howard, Blatche and McGee is a Flip special, loaded with long two point shooters.

That said, if we could resign him for a year at a decent price, I would do it in a second. The guy just makes us better -- more intense, more professional.

[Dat2U]

Do you think Howard is going to be hurt for the rest of his career?

07-08 - 27 yrs old - 76 games
08-09 - 28 yrs old - 52 games
09-10 - 29 yrs old - 35 games
10-11 - 30 yrs old - 9 games (out of 53 games)

If that's not a disturbing trend I don't know what is.

[nate33]

It's not a trend. It's a generally injury-prone guy having one bad injury in the middle of the 09-10 season. I expect more nagging injuries, (thus my 62-win prediction) but I don't think that the trend line will continue down to zero.

If you can find a better veteran who meeds all my criteria, I'm all ears.

[LyricalRico]

I'm with nate. At worst, Howard would be "Caron redux" - an above-average starter who misses around 20 games a year (minus the offense-stopping shot jacking, of course). Considering that his impact on this team when healthy has been undeniable, I think it's a good move to bring him back. Of course, I wouldn't get into a bidding war for the guy. But if he can be re-upped on a reasonable 2-year deal (maybe add a third year, non-guaranteed) then I'm all for it.

A bigger question might be wheter or not he'd actully re-sign if it means riding the bench behind Lewis. Or maybe we'd make Lewis our combo forward 6th man.

[nate33]

I can't condone a 2-year deal unless the 2nd year is a team option. I still think we should try to maintain cap room in 2012 unless we are presented with an offer we can't refuse.

[Ruzious]

I can't condone a 2-year deal unless the 2nd year is a team option. I still think we should try to maintain cap room in 2012 unless we are presented with an offer we can't refuse.

Exactactly, and Howard probably should and probably will be signed to another 1 year contract. If he insists on more - see ya bye.

[LyricalRico]

I can't condone a 2-year deal unless the 2nd year is a team option. I still think we should try to maintain cap room in 2012 unless we are presented with an offer we can't refuse.

Exactactly, and Howard probably should and probably will be signed to another 1 year contract. If he insists on more - see ya bye.

I was thinking of matching it up with Lewis' contract, but you're right - let's not cut into our 2012 space.

[jivelikenice]

I don't anticipate there being a big market for Josh. He has been injury prone and with the new CBA there will be fewer dollars to go around. I'm sure a contender will try to persuade him to come on the cheap for a chance at a ring, but a starting gig and the most money will probably be on the table from us. I like that we're going young, but some vets like Josh are necessary to help teach the team how to play the game and and win. I think Hinrich does this to a slightly lesser degree and I wouldn't move him unless we got a quality offer.

With Wall, Booker, Seraphin, Young, McGee, and Blatche...to go along with our upcoming lottery pick we have enough youth.

[gesa2]

I'm with nate. At worst, Howard would be "Caron redux" - an above-average starter who misses around 20 games a year (minus the offense-stopping shot jacking, of course). Considering that his impact on this team when healthy has been undeniable, I think it's a good move to bring him back. Of course, I wouldn't get into a bidding war for the guy. But if he can be re-upped on a reasonable 2-year deal (maybe add a third year, non-guaranteed) then I'm all for it.

A bigger question might be wheter or not he'd actully re-sign if it means riding the bench behind Lewis. Or maybe we'd make Lewis our combo forward 6th man.

I don't mind Josh Howard on another 1 year deal, and he seemingly has been a good veteran influence for us. But he had his share of boneheadedness in Dallas, and his on court contributions have totaled 14 games for us in 3 separate stints. He gives a good quote to the media, and he hasn't been a shot jacker when he's been on the court. I wouldn't call his impact "undeniable" so much as "hopeful". That's not worth more next year than he's making now IMHO.

[dangermouse]

If we dont draft a SF (id rather a PF, but there are some interesting prospects at the wing as well), then I'd rather re-up Howard for a year than go anywhere near Thornton with a multi-year deal.

[dangermouse]

Anyone interested in trading for Cousins?

As predicted, per the wiretap the Kings are now "very very very unlikely" to trade Cousins. I'm pretty sure last time he got in trouble, trading him was "completely inconcievable". So as i predicted, it will take at least 3 more problems to negate the "very's" and a fight or two with their coach or tyreke evans to turn that "unlikely" into a "possible course of action".

[hands11]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/6077 ... ams#page/1

Not sure if you'll saw this. Is a nice read about what each team may be for the Fed 24 trade deadline.

Of all the players we have that we need to do something with, I think Kirk is the easiest target to move.

8M is simply to much for a back up PG. I would like to keep him around but only for around 4M. With Lewis on the books for so much, it's hard to also over pay Kirk.

Keep Howard. AT is gone. Not much need for him with Lewis and Howard.

It would also be nice to keep Yi but with a qualifying offer of 5.4M he would need to sign a two year deal for that and like 1M the second year so he averages out to 3M a year. Not even sure that is possible. I just don't see a huge line forming to sign Yi at 5.4M So what happens if he doesn't get that offer ? I assume there is a date at which if it passes you can sign him for whatever you want.

I think this team needs to keep some vet around at least another year. The three we that are hear have good personalities for this team. I just wish they weren't so expensive.

Like most people in this new economy, players and teams are going to need to adjust their thinking about how much players are worth. 8M is a lot of money. Everyone can't be making that and more. Way more player should be signed to two year deals. But on the reverse side, you always want to lock in your quality less expense players longer term.

[nate33]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/607782-nba-trade-rumors-glaring-weaknesses-and-quick-trade-fixes-for-all-30-teams#page/1

Not sure if you'll saw this. Is a nice read about what each team may be for the Fed 24 trade deadline.

Man, bleacherreport articles always seem like they're written by 14-year-olds. There is absolutely nothing illuminating in that link. I just wasted 10 minutes of my life.

That's it for me. From this point forward, I refuse to read any bleacher report link.

[verbal8]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/607782-nba-trade-rumors-glaring-weaknesses-and-quick-trade-fixes-for-all-30-teams#page/1

Not sure if you'll saw this. Is a nice read about what each team may be for the Fed 24 trade deadline.

Of all the players we have that we need to do something with, I think Kirk is the easiest target to move.

8M is simply to much for a back up PG. I would like to keep him around but only for around 4M. With Lewis on the books for so much, it's hard to also over pay Kirk.

I think dealing Kirk for a 4 million dollar useless player expiring next year and a late or protected first would be a good move. Theoretically I would be willing to go for a prospect in place of the pick, but I can't think of any that would be available.

It would also be nice to keep Yi but with a qualifying offer of 5.4M he would need to sign a two year deal for that and like 1M the second year so he averages out to 3M a year. Not even sure that is possible.

It is not possible there is a maximum decline. I also think the deal would have to be fully guaranteed, based on an answer I got in reference to Oden.

I just don't see a huge line forming to sign Yi at 5.4M So what happens if he doesn't get that offer ? I assume there is a date at which if it passes you can sign him for whatever you want.

It would be the same situation as Foye this past offseason, where they become an unrestricted free agent. The Wizards could sign him, but they would have no advantage over an other team.

[JAR69]

Daily Dime is talking about Chicago trying to upgrade at 2: http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page ... daily-dime. How about this, for those of you who don't see a Nick Young future:

Young and Thornton for Ronnie Brewer and Charlotte's 2012 first (top-14 protected in the 2012 Draft, top-12 protected in 2013, top-10 protected in 2014, top-8 protected in 2015 and unprotected in the 2016 Draft.)

Brewer is signed through 2013 at around 4.7 m per year, although I have seen some reports the last year is only partially guaranteed. Same age as Young. His numbers when he was with Utah were impressive, less so with Chicago. Athletic and good BBIQ (I think), excellent defender, decent 2 point shooter, bad from deep. It may be tough to play him with Wall, depending on whether either of them can improve their shooting. On the other hand, during his Brewer's good years in Utah Williams was not a big 3 point threat. But he might work well playing with Howard and especially Rashard.

Chicago may be interested in renting Young for one year then trying to resign him if they like him. He should help with spacing and scoring, and the defensive drop-off is not likely to steep. But I could understand a lack of interest as well.

If we were to do this (and if we don't), I'd like to trade Kurt as well to soften the salary blow for the next two years.

[Ruzious]

JAR, Brewer's 2012/2013 salary gets fully guaranteed if he is not waived by 7/10/12. I'm a Ronnie Brewer fan - for his excellent defense and size and versatility, but because his scoring ability has just not shown itself, I'd be hesitent to trade for him. If he does get cut at that time, I'd look to swoop in and get him cheaper.

[TGW]

I'd make that deal, and I've been trying to include a Blatche/Gibson swap in there.

Young/Blatche for Brewer/Gibson/Bogans/Charlotte first works for me.