[Camelo Thread Part 17] - Denver makes trade offer p58

[Jay10]

lol@ carmelo holding up all the trades in the nba

[K_ick_God]

Why do some of you continue to talk about our young talent. What talent?

Gallo is not going to be a star and neither is Chandler. Those are players that come and go with ease in this league.

We are talking about pairing 2 of the top 15 players in the game together. I would take that and the rest of the roster can be some of you delusional fans who think of this young talent as something we will beat Miami or Boston or Lakers with.

This is not football where you build through young average talent. You win in this league by having inpact players.

If we lose out on Melo because we wanted to keep Gallo or Moz, then we will be garbage and 8th seed for the next 7 years.

Give me a damm break.

Melo & Amar'e doesn't guarantee you much better than a 5th-7th seed. Wade & LeBron & Bosh are getting handled by the Celtics because Boston has depth. Actually at this point, Boston doesn't have any superstars who are still at the level of Wade or LeBron, but they seem to have Miami's number because they are big and balanced -- i.e., they have depth.

[GONYK]

Why do some of you continue to talk about our young talent. What talent?

Gallo is not going to be a star and neither is Chandler. Those are players that come and go with ease in this league.

We are talking about pairing 2 of the top 15 players in the game together. I would take that and the rest of the roster can be some of you delusional fans who think of this young talent as something we will beat Miami or Boston or Lakers with.

This is not football where you build through young average talent. You win in this league by having inpact players.

If we lose out on Melo because we wanted to keep Gallo or Moz, then we will be garbage and 8th seed for the next 7 years.

Give me a damm break.

Yay! Another ballboy who doesn't get it!

[King of Troy]

How does building around Amare/Felton/Melo equate to mediocrity any more than not doing anything right now?

Your pre-supposing that if we acquire Melo at the expense of a couple of wing players, we won't be able to get add any other players and thus be mediocre, that's quite a stretch.

If we keep flexibility and don't add another consistent offensive weapon, then we remain what we are right now the definition of Mediocre...and we have wait for the next FA and do this all over again.

You can play the flexibilty card forever, at some point you gotta commit to a core of players to build around don't you?

Not doing anything right now says nothing about our future, it leaves it open ended. We can commit salary or we can maintain flexibility. We have two options which can be decided upon once we get there.

Committing now to Melo takes away our cheap assets, our depth. These are valuable pieces either to the team itself or towards trading for another player.

I'm not saying that by trading these guys for Melo we won't get any players. I never said that. What I'm saying is that the level of players we can get is drastically diminished by gutting our roster right now for Melo. If risk it and wait, we would be able to maintain our assets while getting Melo. Then those assets can be flipped for another very good player, or developed.

What I am certain of is that these players we're giving up are better then the vet min guys you are going to find on the market. By giving these people up now, we would certainly be downgrading with whoever we are going to sign to fill the void left by their departure.

Waiting not only allows us to retain assets that can be used for another player or to round out our team with players and maintain our level of depth, but it also allows us other options, which my not be Carmelo.

We wait because it gives us more options. Acting now creates mediocrity as it hinders our ability to get more talent in the long run. It is short term thinking rather than long term thinking. Carmelo is a great talent, but sacrificing long term options to get him now seems rather short sighted. He doesn't make us contenders, so why toss aside assets when we can potentially get him and continue to build. Getting Carmelo as it now stands severely limits our ability to make future moves, and that is where the major problem lies, alongside the problem of depth.

You make a cogent argument for keeping flexibility, but understand there are no players of Melo's abilities coming down the pike, now or 2012 to compete in an era of mega-teams in terms of star talent, we need another consistent offensive weapon, this is the closest we've come in years to having a superstar talent WANT to come here, let alone being able to acquire said talent.

The risk is not in giving up inconsistent assets, like Chandler/Gallo/Fields the risk is in losing out on a once in a generation scorer like Melo to pair with an elite PF like Amare and an above average PG in Felton.

I don't view Felton or Melo as highly as you do, but regardless, I don't see the move giving us a championship ring, or allowing us to get one any time in the near future. That is why I'm against it. It defines who our team is and will be for some time aside from the addition of some role players. I just don't think it is worth committing to a future of mediocrity, nor will I ever.

What it comes down to I guess is whether we value Melo as the straw that broke the camel's back. Some see him as putting us over the edge. Me, well, not so much.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

[Demyze]

Alot of people think Denver is not going to deal him, but the general concensus around the league from other gm's is that hes going to be dealt that why there not making any moves right now they are waiting just like us, so i would value there opinions in a situation like this rather than a person who trying to selling papers or website hits.

[King of Troy]

Alot of people think Denver is not going to deal him, but the general concensus around the league from other gm's is that hes going to be dealt that why there not making any moves right now they are waiting just like us, so i would value there opinions in a situation like this rather than a person who trying to selling papers or website hits.

I'd trust neither.

Conflict of interest with both. The journalists are trying to sell papers, the GMs are trying to make deals.

[moocow007]

Alot of people think Denver is not going to deal him, but the general concensus around the league from other gm's is that hes going to be dealt that why there not making any moves right now they are waiting just like us, so i would value there opinions in a situation like this rather than a person who trying to selling papers or website hits.

Yep. If the feeling is that Denver isn't really serious about moving Melo then they should be making other moves to increase their chance that Melo would reconsider. They've not done any of that.

[Jordan45822]

lol@ carmelo holding up all the trades in the nba

I am not sure I buy that crap. Teams are more scared to pull trigger with new CBA looming than people realize.

[knicks742]

Alot of people think Denver is not going to deal him, but the general concensus around the league from other gm's is that hes going to be dealt that why there not making any moves right now they are waiting just like us, so i would value there opinions in a situation like this rather than a person who trying to selling papers or website hits.

Yep. If the feeling is that Denver isn't really serious about moving Melo then they should be making other moves to increase their chance that Melo would reconsider. They've not done any of that.

That's actually a really good point that's overlooked. The Cavs and Raptors both made moves to improve their teams and keep their main guys. Denver has expirings and picks they could have used to get an impact player to team up with Melo if they really thought they had a chance to keep him long term.

[K_ick_God]

Not to go too far afield, but my recollection was that I said Denver was likely to hold on to Melo for a variety of reasons. You disagreed because you thought those reasons were unlikely. The main reason we disagreed on was the likelihood of the NBA rolling back existing contracts, which I said would never happen. I could continue for 20 more pages arguing with you on that sub-plot, but the overall picture remains the same -- Denver has good reason just to hold on to Melo past the deadline.

I hope they don't, but they have plenty of motivation to give it a shot.

No my point was that it's not going to happen in the new CBA. But that doesn't meant that Denver won't a) make an incorrect calculation about the next CBA *OR* b) simply try to bluff Melo into folding his cards because people like ESPN say Melo could lose $40M (lol).

My point is that the league will never let Gay make $17M while Melo makes $13M and believing that this is even possible is dead wrong. But that doesn't say anything about what Denver thinks or will do or what Melo thinks or will do. I said that Melo may be misinformed and the same could be true of Denver which could well be just as incompetent as Melo's agents.

I wasn't predicting what Denver or Melo will do. I'm simply predicting what the league will and will not permit to happen under a new CBA. The myths that have risen up about this are a different story.

You probably felt that I was saying Denver would never hold on to Melo because I was saying that Denver would be wrong to honestly think that the cap is going to change dramatically for Max contracts. But they could be honestly (and stupidly) wrong OR they could be well informed and simply bluff Melo and hope that he panics. I've always said that people panic and make bad decisions.

I think you were saying 'Denver would be smart to hang on to him because the cap could make things much worse for Melo.' I disagree with this analysis and always focused on the likelihood of Melo taking a big loss under the new CBA which I honestly think/know is pretty much non-existent.

But I also sense that ESPN, Denver and Melo's agents are foolish enough to really believe that Melo is going to be stuck at $13M while Gay makes $17M. Never going to happen, but people also once believed that the earth is flat.

[Demyze]

Alot of people think Denver is not going to deal him, but the general concensus around the league from other gm's is that hes going to be dealt that why there not making any moves right now they are waiting just like us, so i would value there opinions in a situation like this rather than a person who trying to selling papers or website hits.

Yep. If the feeling is that Denver isn't really serious about moving Melo then they should be making other moves to increase their chance that Melo would reconsider. They've not done any of that.

Yea also look at other teams, there is zero trade activity right now because they waiting for the big chip to get traded first, that tells me they know something we don't know in the inner circles of gm's.

[haterade]

Alot of people think Denver is not going to deal him, but the general concensus around the league from other gm's is that hes going to be dealt that why there not making any moves right now they are waiting just like us, so i would value there opinions in a situation like this rather than a person who trying to selling papers or website hits.

Yep. If the feeling is that Denver isn't really serious about moving Melo then they should be making other moves to increase their chance that Melo would reconsider. They've not done any of that.

Yea also look at other teams, there is zero trade activity right now because they waiting for the big chip to get traded first, that tells me they know something we don't know in the inner circles of gm's.

Very good observation, from my observations it's usually quietest before the storm. It would not surprise me if something happened right after the Allstar game. I believe if Denver is going to trade Melo, they want to keep some time left for them to deal with the other players on the roster.

[Jay10]

lol@ carmelo holding up all the trades in the nba

I am not sure I buy that crap. Teams are more scared to pull trigger with new CBA looming than people realize.

wasn't it reported teams are waiting for the knicks and nuggets trade to go down, so they can get into the trade for other players?

[NYKat]

You make a cogent argument for keeping flexibility, but understand there are no players of Melo's abilities coming down the pike, now or 2012 to compete in an era of mega-teams in terms of star talent, we need another consistent offensive weapon, this is the closest we've come in years to having a superstar talent WANT to come here, let alone being able to acquire said talent.

The risk is not in giving up inconsistent assets, like Chandler/Gallo/Fields the risk is in losing out on a once in a generation scorer like Melo to pair with an elite PF like Amare and an above average PG in Felton.

I don't view Felton or Melo as highly as you do, but regardless, I don't see the move giving us a championship ring, or allowing us to get one any time in the near future. That is why I'm against it. It defines who our team is and will be for some time aside from the addition of some role players. I just don't think it is worth committing to a future of mediocrity, nor will I ever.

What it comes down to I guess is whether we value Melo as the straw that broke the camel's back. Some see him as putting us over the edge. Me, well, not so much.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Well that's kind of a mis-characterization of my position, Melo does not lead us to the promised land alone, and I never suggested he did.

I'm saying a Melo/Amare/Felton core to build around for a championship team, is worth the gamble of losing him or waiting for 2012

[AllanHoustonFan]

thats the thing tho, carmelo is about all bout the $$$...SAS has talked about this b4 on his show, also there is a reason he didnt take the short extension last time like lbj

I'm pretty sure ya boy SAS said the other night there is more than a 75% chance Melo will be a Knick by the deadline so no worries dude.

[King of Troy]

You make a cogent argument for keeping flexibility, but understand there are no players of Melo's abilities coming down the pike, now or 2012 to compete in an era of mega-teams in terms of star talent, we need another consistent offensive weapon, this is the closest we've come in years to having a superstar talent WANT to come here, let alone being able to acquire said talent.

The risk is not in giving up inconsistent assets, like Chandler/Gallo/Fields the risk is in losing out on a once in a generation scorer like Melo to pair with an elite PF like Amare and an above average PG in Felton.

I don't view Felton or Melo as highly as you do, but regardless, I don't see the move giving us a championship ring, or allowing us to get one any time in the near future. That is why I'm against it. It defines who our team is and will be for some time aside from the addition of some role players. I just don't think it is worth committing to a future of mediocrity, nor will I ever.

What it comes down to I guess is whether we value Melo as the straw that broke the camel's back. Some see him as putting us over the edge. Me, well, not so much.

We'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Well that's kind of a mis-characterization of my position, Melo does not lead us to the promised land alone, and I never suggested he did.

I'm saying a Melo/Amare/Felton core to build around for a championship team, is worth the gamble of losing him or waiting for 2012

Apologies then. Was more making a blanket statement against the "get him now" crowd.

My problem with your position ends up being I do not see how we're going to be able to build around that core without assets to trade. (I also don't think Felton is that great, tbh. We need a playmaker if we're to have those two)

[mpharris36]

SAS shouts to much for me to take him seriously. He clowns on basketball players like he could ball with them. Kwame Brown might be garbage but he makes more money then u SAS. Go eat some cheese doodles!

[Esq-4]

We should start a wager on whether or not Melo will be a Knicks against the Bucks (bucks right?) on the 23rd. The first game after the allstar break, since I would be shocked if any major trade happened before the break, and all we have before then is this wednesday's game anyway, not a busy week.

I know the deadline is the 24th, which is what makes it interesting whether they can get it done before hand or not, but after the AllStar Break.

[czoneny]

I wish Denver would just get this over with already

[god shammgod]

this guy makes a good argument for why the knicks need this to happen now, instead of in the summer.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/I ... 62624.html

More than anything else, though, the night without Amar'e made it clear that the Knicks have good reason to be concerned about the rest of the season if they can't pull off a deal for Carmelo Anthony. It's not just because of the possibility that Stoudemire could miss more time, because the Knicks will be up the creek if that happens regardless of what happens with Anthony. It's because the Knicks need a fresh, active and effective Stoudemire to be more than an easy out come the first round of the playoffs.

That isn't going to happen if he spends every single night as a workhorse, target and all around big toe of the Knicks. Based on what Alan Hahn of Newsday is reporting about an increased sense of urgency about the Anthony talks, the Knicks know that isn't a sustainable course of action. The team needs a coup de toe or at least a new level of power sharing as soon as possible to avoid the pitfalls of relying solely on Stoudemire over the final 28 games of the season.