[Camelo Thread Part 18] - Al Iannazone (Nets Are Back Pg 77)

[cleanuphtr24]

Some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous!
If Denver keeps asking for Gallo then make them take Chandler as well. Why? because Chandler won't be here next year!
It won't make any sense to sign Carmelo and then sign Chandler who does the same things and plays the same position...

I'd also hold onto Felton for the simple fact that we can package him to either Utah or NOR next season...

Were you in a coma during the past offseason? What happened with David Lee. There's no reason to make Chandler a throw in in the Melo deal. If it goes down to the last minute and they NEED both Gallo and Chandler to get it done, then fine. Until then you hold out to keep one of them.

People who expect us to be able to sign Howard/Paul/Williams outright are delusional. We're going to need to keep some assets for a sign and trade if thats what we want to do. Trade Chandler in a David Lee type deal and you'll have more to move in 2012.

[Bklyn&company]

Tsk tsk. It's not about what we think of Felton but what his perceived value in the league is. Right now dude is putting up 17 and 9 on a very reasonable contract. He has significant trade value. I understand why some are hesitant to give that up nilly willy...

I guarantee that GMs don't go with his current numbers. Everyone knows MD inflates PG numbers.

True and Billups is putting up 16 and 5.5, and is a better shooter. Now everyone image billups in Mike D's system. I will go as far to say allstar. Watch

[knicks9784]

there is no capspace.

miami signed the big 3 to start at 14.5mil

we wont have enough space to fill out the roster with minimums.

you can go over the cap to sign players to one year vet minimums

[seren]

there is no capspace.

miami signed the big 3 to start at 14.5mil

we wont have enough space to fill out the roster with minimums.

they also signed miller, haslem, and anthony.

[cleanuphtr24]

i am fine with giving up gallo,chandler,curry,AR, felton and a first rounder for billups and anthony. our line up would be sick with

pg billups
sg fields
sf melo
pf stat
c mozzy

thats a title condender in the east.

No it isn't.

[K_ick_God]

Tsk tsk. It's not about what we think of Felton but what his perceived value in the league is. Right now dude is putting up 17 and 9 on a very reasonable contract. He has significant trade value. I understand why some are hesitant to give that up nilly willy...

I guarantee that GMs don't go with his current numbers. Everyone knows MD inflates PG numbers.

True and Billups is putting up 16 and 5.5, and is a better shooter. Now everyone image billups in Mike D's system. I will go as far to say allstar. Watch

Billups has slowed down quite a bit though. He can still get the job done but he's at a back-up level with his skills these days.

[Pedro Pistolas]

We do have another Duhon here. His name is Felton.

Nominated for worst post of the thread.

He's an awful poster. He bashes Felton yet praises a player like Mozgov who has less arm strength than lisa leslie...

Felton has been sub par as of late but you can't take away the good run he had earlier in the season.

[LakerLegend]

Seems to me a little perspective is in order here. We're talking about Raymond Felton. A good player who MIGHT make an All-star team once or twice in his career. He's a good player that is not going to change the direction of a franchise. Same thing goes with guys like Gallinari, Chandler. Players like these guys come out every year.

Billups has one year left on his contract, opens up some capspace.

It's time to think big for you guys now. Championships not 6th seeds. It's about changing the culture of a franchise.

Are you really going to let a guy like Felton make or break this deal?

Furthering on the thing about perspective. Let's be honest here guys.

You are in play for Melo because he wants to go there, not because you're assets outside of Amare are enticing. They are average for a rebuilding team. You're getting a steal either way.

As long as you can retain Melo, Amare, and a couple of other pieces and reasonable cap space to build around, you do it.

[seren]

I guarantee that GMs don't go with his current numbers. Everyone knows MD inflates PG numbers.

True and Billups is putting up 16 and 5.5, and is a better shooter. Now everyone image billups in Mike D's system. I will go as far to say allstar. Watch

Billups has slowed down quite a bit though. He can still get the job done but he's at a back-up level with his skills these days.

I disagree. He is going to the line 5.6 times a game (career high). He is shooting 44 percent from three (career high). His free throw accuracy is also career high at 92 percent.

[kane2021]

They were easier on the nets. 3 starters and picks?

Why dont they grant us permission to talk to him? They worried he will ruin it for them?

I dont like it. Denver gets what they want. Melo gets what he wants. And it costs us the most. We give up our highest valued trade chips here.

If thats how it goes down, then thats how it goes down. But I wont be celebrating a victory until I see our team bumrush the east.

It's a high price but I think it's just about a fair price. Therefore it's as close to a win-win.

I would consider taking out Felton or Chandler and putting in another pick. That would be nice. Maybe possible too.

Depends on Melo. I think he's looking forward to playing with Felton too.

But this lineup could be very strong:

Billups - stop gap but savvy / Douglas - may have to play more but could he get more comfortable playmaking?
Fields - perfect facilitator, dirty work guard for this lineup
Melo
Amar'e
Mozgov - Knicks could go to the next level if he can average something like 8 and 8 with 1.5 blocks

I think that team could give the Bulls *a lot* of trouble first round -- all they can handle or more than they can handle. I'm sure they'd want no part of playing the Knicks first round with that lineup, particularly with how Douglas seems to play against them.

I wonder who has brought billups into the talks. Thats a instant 11 million in savings for denver next season. And they have a young PG in lawson. Makes me wonder if it wasnt us who brought him into the talks. You know, instead of taking say harringtons deal, lets discuss billups.

To me, it just makes more sense for them to hold onto billups and option him out. Then run with lawson. But then again, never hurts to have a young fiery point on his final year to deal next season.

[seren]

We do have another Duhon here. His name is Felton.

Nominated for worst post of the thread.

He's an awful poster. He bashes Felton yet praises a player like Mozgov who has less arm strength than lisa lesie...

Felton has been sub par as of late but you can't take away the good run he had earlier in the season.

Let me know when Felton can play the center position dummy. Perspective is your friend.

[Pedro Pistolas]

Some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous!
If Denver keeps asking for Gallo then make them take Chandler as well. Why? because Chandler won't be here next year!
It won't make any sense to sign Carmelo and then sign Chandler who does the same things and plays the same position...

I'd also hold onto Felton for the simple fact that we can package him to either Utah or NOR next season...

Chandler backs up both Melo and Amar'e. Ideal sixth man because you can always keep one star on the court at all times.

No it's an awful move because we're spending money on a backup instead of a QUALITY starting center. However if Walsh can trade sign and trade Chandler for a center than it probably works out..

[Pedro Pistolas]

the last thing i am looking at a PG is the number of 20 point games. as a matter of fact, Duhon had some here. he also holds a Knicks' franchise high 22 assists. doesn't mean jack. we need a PG who actually distributes the ball every once in a while. for change.

Felton is a lot better than Duhon.

He is more athletic, a better shooter, a better defender, can drive, has a fadeaway jumper from inside the arc that Duhon couldn't even dream of getting off, competently runs an offense and is a very good assist man with minimal turnovers.

They're not in the same league really. Felton is a quality starting point guard. Duhon does not even appear to be a good backup.

But if your point is that Felton has been disappointing since his excellent December, then I'd agree with that.

The guy is nuts , just put him on ignore. People seem to forget how awful Duhon was! The guy couldn't shoot , couldn't drive to the basket, couldn't push the ball up the floor, couldn't finish under the rim, couldn't guard anybody..etc

[shrink]

If you acquire Billups before the deadline, he's also an expiring contract to match salaries/positions when you trade for a star PG (Paul, Deron) this summer.

He may show for NYK, but if he's dealt to UTA or NOH, he'll want out, and provide an even cheaper buy-out to the two micro-markets that would want to save money.

[johnnywishbone]

Some of you guys are absolutely ridiculous!
If Denver keeps asking for Gallo then make them take Chandler as well. Why? because Chandler won't be here next year!
It won't make any sense to sign Carmelo and then sign Chandler who does the same things and plays the same position...

I'd also hold onto Felton for the simple fact that we can package him to either Utah or NOR next season...

Chandler backs up both Melo and Amar'e. Ideal sixth man because you can always keep one star on the court at all times.

No it's an awful move because we're spending money on a backup instead of a QUALITY starting center. However if Walsh can trade sign and trade Chandler for a center than it probably works out..

I think you could get Chandler for a good deal if he plays back up for the rest of the year. But if he gets an offer that is too good too match then you can try to S & T him i.e. Haywood for Chandler.

I also like the idea of adding Kelenna and getting Birdman back. Then you can go ahead and get Earl Barron. Then we'd have Birdman + Turiaf + Barron + Amar'e can play center at times. Not the greatest but when we have to absolute studs in Amar'e and Melo it would work.

[Future Soldier]

pg billups
sg fields
sf melo
pf stat
c mozzy

thats a title condender in the east.

this nails the 4th seed in the East with authority. Title contender? Naaah.

[K_ick_God]

We do have another Duhon here. His name is Felton.

Nominated for worst post of the thread.

He's an awful poster. He bashes Felton yet praises a player like Mozgov who has less arm strength than lisa leslie...

Felton has been sub par as of late but you can't take away the good run he had earlier in the season.

Dunno about this arm strength thing. I think Moz has lost the ball mostly because of not being aware of where he is on the court, and that has already gotten a lot better. He's finishing his dunks and catching better.

Mozgov went from having trouble rebounding to racking up boards lately. That's an excellent sign about his ability to get better. He also went from having no offensive game to speak of in Europe, to showing a nice jumper. His work ethic and heart are all there. And so far he's shown a very fast learning curve to pick up things and get better very quickly. That's a great sign for his growth. Staying healthy and building confidence is maybe all he needs to become a very, very good starting center.

[johnnywishbone]

You can't play pick and roll with Chris Duhon because no one respects him. Everybody knows the guy can't even make a layup so they just double the pick. Guy was trash. Maybe the worst Knick of all time. Guy layed more bricks than a stone mason.

If you really think Duhon and Felton are equivalent - LOL I don't even know what to say to that. Felton is like 5th or 6th in assists this year and defenses have to respect him because he can drive in the lane.

My only problem with Felton is he makes some bonehead decisions where he tries to force it too much.

[RHODEY]

Seems to me a little perspective is in order here. We're talking about Raymond Felton. A good player who MIGHT make an All-star team once or twice in his career. He's a good player that is not going to change the direction of a franchise. Same thing goes with guys like Gallinari, Chandler. Players like these guys come out every year.

Billups has one year left on his contract, opens up some capspace.

It's time to think big for you guys now. Championships not 6th seeds. It's about changing the culture of a franchise.

Are you really going to let a guy like Felton make or break this deal?

Furthering on the thing about perspective. Let's be honest here guys.

You are in play for Melo because he wants to go there, not because you're assets outside of Amare are enticing. They are average for a rebuilding team. You're getting a steal either way.

As long as you can retain Melo, Amare, and a couple of other pieces and reasonable cap space to build around, you do it.

Getting a steal?

Are you Kobe?

Better yet are you Jerry West?

Jerry do you think giving up 3 starters (all young , all productive)and MULTIPLE draft picks for a guy who is an amazing scorer (but has several flaws) and aging vet is a steal.

Heck Kobe, if you want to talk steals lets talk about the highway robbery for Gasol you guys pulled off. How many starters did the Lakers give up for a top3 big in the entire league.

Good GM'S are paid to get the best deal possible. We got a guy who supposedly wants to come here, we have cap space, we have leverage. why the hell are we giving up 3 important starters and multiple draft picks? How in the hell will we have flexibility to get anywhere near the talent your LA Lakers have?

[JollyJoker]

Right now Walsh is still going to posture a little because it is abudantly clear that Melo is not going to sign an extension with anyone else. The knicks are going to have to give up felton but there must be some negotiable room in giving up chandler or gallinari. There also must be some other negotiable room in giving up mozgov or say roger mason.

Denver does't want some of New Yorks bench players as well so in the end unless New York has something else on the denver roster that entices them say a jr smith; it's going to be tough for new york not to make it out like they are losing three starters. Fair enough if I was New York I would still offer the players that Denver wants and negociate without the pick and add some fillers inside like jr smith for azubukie and roger mason. You are giving up quite a lot talent wise and it's only fair to get something back. After the trade deadline the odds of the knicks getting Melo in free agency are much higher than any other team so by waiting you won't concede some assets. Plus after the trade deadline the players are bound to play better which will up their trade value for potential trades during the summer.

New York won't be able to retain Gallinari and chandler in the future, so billups does help relieve some cap space. Another thing is if Melo re-signs is it going to be max money or will he re-sign in New York for slighlt more than he would get at free agency so as to make pursuing another top free agent in 2012 a dream come true.