Liriano *may* be available

[Pharmcat]

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/115676604.html

pass ?

[Curmudgeon]

Depends on the price. For a couple of second tier prospects, sure. Or, after trading JJ Hardy, the Twins may be in the market for a ss, and Nunez might fill the bill. I'd make that trade.

[KnickelandDime]

Please God do it. We need lefties.

[Jitpal]

Depends what they want. I wouldn't deal Montero for him or anything. Nunez and a couple 2nd tier pitching prospects (not Nova) is what I'd be willing to give up. -Jitpal

[Lconte17]

Liriano is a STUD. Perfect Ace in the hole, you know what AJ should be, and Andy was for so many years, Not the ace to anchor the rotation but the man who can dominate a game. Liriano is a beast. I would say Nunez, Noesi and Romine get that done. And I would make that trade.

[Dr. Detfink]

Liriano is a stud? 14-10 with a 3.62 ERA....that's a stud? What do you consider Carl Pavano who had a better year?

He's a nice pitcher but the Twins will ask for so much that you'll think twice...

[Lconte17]

Go back and look at his run support he had... He was in the top 10 with the lowest run support. I mean if we are going of record... then we can't consider King Felix a stud either because he was barely .500... and 3.62 ERA is pretty fair (CC has been 3.18 and 3.37 for the Yankees in his two years..) That ERA would certainly drop on the Yankees staff because we all know he'd get run support.

[Pharmcat]

Liriano is a stud? 14-10 with a 3.62 ERA....that's a stud? What do you consider Carl Pavano who had a better year?

He's a nice pitcher but the Twins will ask for so much that you'll think twice...

i think its established a good pitcher costs 3-4 prospects

see what garza, grienke, etc

[Dr. Detfink]

Twins aren't going to work that way...They want Montero to start. Remember when the Twins wanted to deal Santana, they started with Philip Hughes. Now, Santana in the last two seasons has been mortal, coming off of injury.

The Twins next to the Marlins are the BEST at hiding injuries and chinks to the armor of their potential stars. That's why I never feel comfortable.

[rappa]

Go back and look at his run support he had... He was in the top 10 with the lowest run support. I mean if we are going of record... then we can't consider King Felix a stud either because he was barely .500... and 3.62 ERA is pretty fair (CC has been 3.18 and 3.37 for the Yankees in his two years..) That ERA would certainly drop on the Yankees staff because we all know he'd get run support.

Liriano is a stud? 14-10 with a 3.62 ERA....that's a stud? What do you consider Carl Pavano who had a better year?

He's a nice pitcher but the Twins will ask for so much that you'll think twice...

Lconte, era and run support have absolutely no connection what so ever, so I'm not quite sure how you even make the correlation of era going lower with more run support? Anyway.....

Detfink, going off the 2 most out-dated / useless stats to judge a pitcher is definitely not the right way to go about things. Liriano tired down the stretch in what was his most durable season ever. Coming off a major injury and fighting fatigue will almost assuredly lead to less then stellar results but even with that, he had a 2.66 FIP. In comparison, Sabathia's FIP was 3.54, Lee's was 2.58.

FIP is a greater statistic in order to judge a pitcher ability independant of their team. I'd trade for him in a heartbeat as he's death on lefthanders and has shown improving command while still being 26.

[Dr. Detfink]

Go back and look at his run support he had... He was in the top 10 with the lowest run support. I mean if we are going of record... then we can't consider King Felix a stud either because he was barely .500... and 3.62 ERA is pretty fair (CC has been 3.18 and 3.37 for the Yankees in his two years..) That ERA would certainly drop on the Yankees staff because we all know he'd get run support.

Pavano had a 3.75 to Liriano's 3.62 so let's not go too deep into "run support" B.S. What disturbs me about Liriano is # of innings he can last. While 191 innings isn't bad, Pavano pitched 221 (that's more than his entire Yankee career).

Is Liriano all the way back after TWO injury plagued seasons? Are you willing to give up Montero AND 3 more top prospects (cause the Twins are like the Marlins, they fleece teams for farm talent)....for Liriano?

I dunno...Again, would the Yanks been better off trading Hughes for Johan Santana? Has a similar feel.

[Pharmcat]

im just saying in general, whoever the yanks get, its gonna cost 3-4 prospects

i dont even know if we can trade nunez, he is the only IF ready prospect that we seem to have, and we need to protect against injuries to Jeter/Arod, etc

[rappa]

Detfink, stop making stuff up. A deal with Liriano doesn't start with Montero and if it did, Cashman would hang up on them instantly.

Montero isn't going anywhere for anyone not named felix hernandez, josh johnson, claytown kershaw, roy halladay or cliff lee. He will not be traded for someone with so many questions in Liriano.

The twins could of asked for hughes and so forth because santana at the time WAS the best LH SP in baseball. Liriano isn't near that class, nor does he even have close to the track record of Santana.

Just because they are lefties and played for the twins, doesn't make them similar in regards to trade value.

[Pharmcat]

Detfink, stop making stuff up. A deal with Liriano doesn't start with Montero and if it did, Cashman would hang up on them instantly.

Montero isn't going anywhere for anyone not named felix hernandez, josh johnson, claytown kershaw, roy halladay or cliff lee. He will not be traded for someone with so many questions in Liriano.

The twins could of asked for hughes and so forth because santana at the time WAS the best LH SP in baseball. Liriano isn't near that class, nor does he even have close to the track record of Santana.

Just because they are lefties and played for the twins, doesn't make them similar in regards to trade value.

i wish we could get kershaw, i like his stuff....we can all dream

i think the reality is that yanks can trade for middle of the lineup pitcher and groom their own for top of the rotation pitcher

[Lconte17]

Lconte, era and run support have absolutely no connection what so ever, so I'm not quite sure how you even make the correlation of era going lower with more run support? Anyway.....

So apparently my iPhone sucks because i went ahead and provided some stats based on Liriano's All Star year and how his era lowered drastically when he had higher Run Support. it was like he gained confidence or something. When he had no run support- he had low confidence in his best pitch. But when his team would put up runs he would challenge hitters far more and his ERA was 2.7x or something like that, which is beastly. Sorry for the confusion

[Dr. Detfink]

Detfink, stop making stuff up. A deal with Liriano doesn't start with Montero and if it did, Cashman would hang up on them instantly.

Montero isn't going anywhere for anyone not named felix hernandez, josh johnson, claytown kershaw, roy halladay or cliff lee. He will not be traded for someone with so many questions in Liriano.

The twins could of asked for hughes and so forth because santana at the time WAS the best LH SP in baseball. Liriano isn't near that class, nor does he even have close to the track record of Santana.

Just because they are lefties and played for the twins, doesn't make them similar in regards to trade value.

What am I making up? Those stats are STRAIGHT from ESPN.

The Twins wanting the discussion to start with Philip Hughes for Johan Santana is not fiction...

And if you THINK the Twins would give up Liriano had a solid season last year for lesser prospects that Cashman overrates, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya...If they wanted Hughes for Santana, they aren't taking Eduardo Nuñez and some junk for Liriano especially if Twins are think Liriano is as Godly as you say.

The Twins have nothing to lose. NOTHING. They miss the playoffs, blame the bigger markets. Make the playoffs, they can oversell any player they have for cheap.

It's Yankees who have no leverage because outside of Hughes, their pitching prospects haven't really panned out. This league is all about pitching, one way or another.

[rappa]

Detfink, stop making stuff up. A deal with Liriano doesn't start with Montero and if it did, Cashman would hang up on them instantly.

Montero isn't going anywhere for anyone not named felix hernandez, josh johnson, claytown kershaw, roy halladay or cliff lee. He will not be traded for someone with so many questions in Liriano.

The twins could of asked for hughes and so forth because santana at the time WAS the best LH SP in baseball. Liriano isn't near that class, nor does he even have close to the track record of Santana.

Just because they are lefties and played for the twins, doesn't make them similar in regards to trade value.

What am I making up? Those stats are STRAIGHT from ESPN.

The Twins wanting the discussion to start with Philip Hughes for Johan Santana is not fiction...

And if you THINK the Twins would give up Liriano had a solid season last year for lesser prospects that Cashman overrates, I got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell ya...If they wanted Hughes for Santana, they aren't taking Eduardo Nuñez and some junk for Liriano especially if Twins are think Liriano is as Godly as you say.

The Twins have nothing to lose. NOTHING. They miss the playoffs, blame the bigger markets. Make the playoffs, they can oversell any player they have for cheap.

It's Yankees who have no leverage because outside of Hughes, their pitching prospects haven't really panned out. This league is all about pitching, one way or another.

I feel like when I try to speak to you I actually become dumber. You obviously don't understand what I said and you obviously still can't comprehend simple sentences.

You claimed a liriano trade STARTS with Montero. That is a completely false statement and if you re-read what I wrote you can understand why.

Then I simply tried to dispute the trade discussions for Johan are in no shape / form even remotely close to what they are for Liriano.

Johan had a track record of being the BEST LH SP, maybe even best SP in all of baseball for 3 years and counting. The twins could ask for top prospects simply because he had the durability, stats and age on his side to command top prospects.

Liriano has only had 1 healthy good year and his age is a plus, but other then that, he has major durability concerns. I have never once said Liriano is GODLY so don't put words in my mouth. I said he has above average stuff from the left side, dominates lefites, and if he could stay healthy, would be a great addition to our staff. He was VERY good the first 3/4 of the season and then tired down the stretch.

If they could make an offer of Nunez / Romine / Warren for Liriano, I would certainly be down to do that. People hate on Nunez but he could be an above avg defensive ss and actually hit the ball out of the infield. Even if he hits .260 but plays above avg def, he is considered an above avg ss, as the average mlb ss bats .240.

I'm not even sure where you are trying to go with pitching prospects panning out, that holds no regard what so ever in trade discussions. Do you honestly think a GM says, well there 2 past top prospects didn't pan out so this one now is definitely going to fail? No. Prospects don't pan out for many different various reasons and no GM in their right mind would ever come to that conclusion that a certain teams prospects will never pan out.

And the twins have nothing to lose you say? Right, they only have a 100+million dollar payroll and a brand new ball park but hey, they don't care about winning right. Please, just get a clue.

[Dr. Detfink]

Now, wait...BACK that all the way up to the FIRST sentence of your leaky tampon whine....

WHY...WHY do you think the Twins are THAT stupid not to ask for Montero? I mean, when did the Twins give away "studs" as you call it for unproven commodities?

STOP with your B.S. of prospects. This is NOT the NBA trade machine. A franchise like Minnesota are SHREWD used car salesmen. They can't AFFORD to take nothing but the BEST from teams for PROVEN commodities.

The Yanks can afford to waste tens of millions of dollars and STILL re-load their franchise. And that's what Yankee fans FORGET that luxury.

Therefore, Teams are not going to allow themselves to be taken advantage by a billion dollar empire. I mean, what business practice is THAT stupid?

I dunno where you got so stone stupid...you would THINK after the Knicks HELLISH dealings with the Denver Nuggets that it would get through your FAT HEAD that NO SMALLER MARKET TEAM is going to concede to a BIG MECCA like a NY Franchise without trying to **** them over.

This is not 1996 when Stick Michael was a GENIUS selling overrated prospects. Teams HAVE to be smarter because MLB is DYING every where BUT three to four franchises. They are not going to give up a solid pitcher that will help a RIVAL win a World Series for again, UNPROVEN Commodities.

How MANY times have the Twins gotten knocked out of the playoffs by the Yanks? And they want to make it EASIER for the Yankees to go farther in the postseason? Their mission statement is NO different than the Yanks. They just can't waste money on AJ Burnett and Carl Pavano and keep winning.

If Seattle STARTED the conversation with Montero for Cliff Lee (not JUST Montero), you think Minnesota would be any different? The Twins are a WAY smarter organization than the Seattle Mariners. Just look at the roster and # of times they made the playoffs.

The Yanks will NEVER...NEVER sniff Liriano. Guarantee THAT. The asking price will be ridiculous. Cashman NEEDED to be held at gunpoint to give up one pick for Soriano. He would RATHER miss the playoffs than give up another prospect.

The only pitcher on the market for that CRAPTASTIC Bag of bullsh*t you offered is CHRIS CARPENTER and his 15M OWED. END of story.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, let's all calm down.

1. If Liriano were that good, why would MN trade him in the first place? The reality is, he isn't that good. He's ok, not great.
2. MN has a pretty good catcher who costs a big chunk of their payroll and probably wouldn't want Montero. But they would want a bunch of good pitching prospects, several of whom have names beginning in the letter "B".
3. If the Yankees plan on acquiring a good pitcher without giving up blue chip prospects, it is going to be a guy who is owed alot of money.

[ccvle]

(cause the Twins are like the Marlins, they fleece teams for farm talent).

like who? carlos gomez and delmon young?