Midseason report: Your grade on our young prospects

[Stun704]

I think everyone would could agree, when larry brown was our coach, most of our young talent did not look too promisng, but under silas they all have shown they have potential to become great players, 1 to 5 stars, how would you guys grade our prospects if you were a scout.

DJ - 5 star prospect - has great court vision, and amazing speed and handles, that weren't realized under larry brown, when he is hot, he is almost unstoppable. his only flaw is his himself, meaning if hes lacking confidence, he regresses and has trouble guarding faster and bigger guards..

Tyrus Thomas - 4 3/4 star prospect, has an automatic midrange J, amazing athleticism and energy, and has great defensive abilities, his flaws are he doesn't rely on his BBIQ some of the time, and the only reason I don't give him a full 5 star, is his recent injury raises some question marks, but I hope he comes back stronger then ever

Gerald Henderson, 4 1/2 star prospect - amazing athetcism, and has improved his midrange jumper to almost automatic, and also has "black mamba-like" clutchness when the game is on line, doesn't sink under pressure. and has amazing defensive abilitiys, his only flaws IMO, are his handles which can be improved, and his 3 pt shot.

Derrick Brown - 2 1/2 star prospect, is very raw, and seems to have had a sophomore slump, hopefully he can get his stuff together during the offseason, and develop some offensive and defensive fundamentals. the potential is there though

Sheron Collins - N/A haven't seen enough of him to make a valid decision, whenever i seen him in the game, he plays without fear though, which is good

[captaincrunk]

Livingston is only 25. So is McGuire. Neither are very special though.

[Fred Williamson]

I wouldn't label DJ and Tyrus as prospects. DJ proved himself as a legit 3rd/4th option or 1st man of the bench. Tyrus has been in this league for 5years now and even started for a playoff team. He pretty much hit his ceiling and will probably take the role as a 6th man for the rest of his career. I really can't
see him starting on a good playoff team where ballmovement and high BBall IQ is required.

And I love Henderson. He made so much progess in the past weeks it's amazing. If he learns how to shoot the 3, either Jack or Wallace can gtfo.

[captaincrunk]

I wouldn't label DJ and Tyrus as prospects. DJ proved himself as a legit 3rd/4th option or 1st man of the bench. Tyrus has been in this league for 5years now and even started for a playoff team. He pretty much hit his ceiling and will probably take the role as a 6th man for the rest of his career. I really can't
see him starting on a good playoff team where ballmovement and high BBall IQ is required.

And I love Henderson. He made so much progess in the past weeks it's amazing. If he learns how to shoot the 3, either Jack or Wallace can gtfo.

Tyrus is still really young. Prospect doesn't necessarily mean they sit the bench and watch and learn, it just means you expect development.

[Fred Williamson]

I wouldn't label DJ and Tyrus as prospects. DJ proved himself as a legit 3rd/4th option or 1st man of the bench. Tyrus has been in this league for 5years now and even started for a playoff team. He pretty much hit his ceiling and will probably take the role as a 6th man for the rest of his career. I really can't
see him starting on a good playoff team where ballmovement and high BBall IQ is required.

And I love Henderson. He made so much progess in the past weeks it's amazing. If he learns how to shoot the 3, either Jack or Wallace can gtfo.

Tyrus is still really young. Prospect doesn't necessarily mean they sit the bench and watch and learn, it just means you expect development.

He's been in this league for 5years now. Played for what? 4 different coaches? and is still the same player since his rookie year. He even got a plenty opportunities to prove himself as a starter, but he failed.

[captaincrunk]

I wouldn't label DJ and Tyrus as prospects. DJ proved himself as a legit 3rd/4th option or 1st man of the bench. Tyrus has been in this league for 5years now and even started for a playoff team. He pretty much hit his ceiling and will probably take the role as a 6th man for the rest of his career. I really can't
see him starting on a good playoff team where ballmovement and high BBall IQ is required.

And I love Henderson. He made so much progess in the past weeks it's amazing. If he learns how to shoot the 3, either Jack or Wallace can gtfo.

Tyrus is still really young. Prospect doesn't necessarily mean they sit the bench and watch and learn, it just means you expect development.

He's been in this league for 5years now. Played for what? 4 different coaches? and is still the same player since his rookie year. He even got a plenty opportunities to prove himself as a starter, but he failed.

Yeah, you already said that. Thanks for adding nothing to the conversation, and missing the point of my post.

[Fred Williamson]

no ****? So what is there to expect from him? If he didn't develop a bit in the past 5years, how can you expect him develop in the future? As I said, he is what he is and hit his ceiling . Therefore, I wouldn't call him a prospect. And if you are still trying to bring up the age factor, look at Livingston. He's only 1year older than Tyrus and absolutely no one expects him to develop into an borderline allstar PG.

[captaincrunk]

no ****? So what is there to expect from him? If he didn't develop a bit in the past 5years, how can you expect him develop in the future? As I said, he is what he is and hit his ceiling . Therefore, I wouldn't call him a prospect. And if you are still trying to bring up the age factor, look at Livingston. He's only 1year older than Tyrus and absolutely no one expects him to develop into an borderline allstar PG.

He's clearly better than he was on draft day. If you don't see that, how can I expect you to see any future development? Livingston is broken, he has physical limits. We'll see how this injury affects Thomas' play but I'm willing to bet that only you and the bulls board (who are just saying it because he never did much for their team) would say that.

[Paydro70]

...huh? This has been, by far, the best season of Tyrus' career (previous best: his 25 games with us last spring). Best shooting (from the line, from midrange, at the rim...) on by far the heaviest load, best blocking, best rebounding, best PER, best WS/48, best +/-. When he came into the league he was a turnover machine who couldn't stay on the court without fouling. He didn't have anything close to the jumper he has now. Just a completely crazy statement, frankly.

There are still plenty of question marks on Tyrus, don't get me wrong. He did all this on half a season, mostly under LB, and now he's injured and might not play again this season. More importantly, he still wasn't getting starter minutes despite playing out of his mind when he did, so who knows what he can do as a full-time starter. "Prospect" may not the right word, but there's plenty to be optimistic about for his next season.

Stun: I think you're being really optimistic about some of these guys. DJ is a 5 star prospect? Shouldn't that mean he can become the best in the league at his position? Because he's not doing that. Henderson is thoroughly mediocre, and as long as he has zero 3pt shooting, always will be. He's 23 and has exactly two talents: rebounding, and midrange shooting. The rest is below-average or average.

Sherron Collins is awful. I don't need to see more than the 60 minutes he's gotten to know that.

[bobcats3wallace]

Coming into this season it appeared we may be a team without a future, however since Silas has taken over that has been completely untrue. Thomas is having his best season, and that was mostly under LB with career lows in minutes. Put him under Silas and i REALLY think he will flourish. DJ, when healthy, under Silas has been an 18 ppg guy. Henderson has been incredible off the bench. Livingston has been picking it up. We have great hope for the future. The core of DJ, Hendo, and Thomas are great pieces to build around. D. Brown has been a disapoinment, but outside of that all the young guy shave been very good. Our future is bright. I can't wait to see Thomas starting next season under Silas!!!

[Tupik]

Stun, you are such a homer sometimes (Don't take it bad though, i'm not trying to attack you personally)

IMO, anyone who thinks DJ is a 5 star out of 5 prospect is being extremely delusional. And I LOVE Augustin. 5 star is for the Blake Griffins of this world, and DJ is very far from being close to having this amount of potential.

[captaincrunk]

Stun, you are such a homer sometimes (Don't take it bad though, i'm not trying to attack you personally)

IMO, anyone who thinks DJ is a 5 star out of 5 prospect is being extremely delusional. And I LOVE Augustin. 5 star is for the Blake Griffins of this world, and DJ is very far from being close to having this amount of potential.

On 2K11 he would be, if they ever updated their stuff.

[Stun704]

Stun, you are such a homer sometimes (Don't take it bad though, i'm not trying to attack you personally)

IMO, anyone who thinks DJ is a 5 star out of 5 prospect is being extremely delusional. And I LOVE Augustin. 5 star is for the Blake Griffins of this world, and DJ is very far from being close to having this amount of potential.

On 2K11 he would be, if they ever updated their stuff.

he was on 2k9, i guess that was his preception before lb got to him, i traded him to the jazz ( because i liked blowing up the team and totally rebuilding it) and he was a 93 after 2 seasons

[captaincrunk]

Stun, you are such a homer sometimes (Don't take it bad though, i'm not trying to attack you personally)

IMO, anyone who thinks DJ is a 5 star out of 5 prospect is being extremely delusional. And I LOVE Augustin. 5 star is for the Blake Griffins of this world, and DJ is very far from being close to having this amount of potential.

On 2K11 he would be, if they ever updated their stuff.

he was on 2k9, i guess that was his preception before lb got to him, i traded him to the jazz ( because i liked blowing up the team and totally rebuilding it) and he was a 93 after 2 seasons

My bet for him in the future, in 2k11 terms, is around an 82-86, which is a pretty big swing. But offensively there's not much missing for Augustin.

Not that 2k11 really matters.

[fatlever]

lets put some agreeable context behind the 5 star system. if you say dj is a 5 star prospect you are leaving no room for the prospects that are miles ahead of him. here is my thinking:

5 Stars - potential franchise player, multiple all-stars
4 stars - quality long term starter, borderline all-star at some point
3 stars - adequate starter or 6th man candidate or valuable role player on contender
2 stars - solid bench/rotation guy
1 star - practice player

that being said

augustin: 3.5 - 4.0 stars - best case scenario dj keeps his offense clicking to the point that it overshadows his defense allowing him to remain a quality starter for a long time. worst case, his offense continues to be inconsistent and his defense doesnt improve much. he is a starter on average team or best served as a 6th man spark plug type on a great team

henderson: 3.0 - 3.5 stars - best case scenario henderson improves offense to the point that he is a reliable 15ppg scorer and becomes a long term starter making a name for himself as a defensive ace. worst case scenario hendo's offense remains inconsistent and he is best served as a defensive stopper, role player, spark plug off the bench

thomas: 3.0 - 4.0 stars - best case scenario tyrus learns to stay out of foul trouble, cuts down on dumb plays and gets a tiny bit of low post game and also improves man defense (lot of ifs) and tyrus is suddenly a borderline all-star. worst case scenario tyrus stays the same player for the rest of his career and never really makes it as anything more than a 6th man type.

brown: 1.0 - 1.5 stars

collins: 1.0 - 1.5 stars

[Paydro70]

I think Fats is right about everything on there. I might be willing to extend Tyrus into 4.5 stars... it's not impossible for him to become Shawn Marion. If he can, as you say, keep himself on the court, and play at the level he did for 35 games this season, he's an all-star. That's a big stretch, but it's at least possible.

[Jaruff]

I think Fats is right about everything on there. I might be willing to extend Tyrus into 4.5 stars... it's not impossible for him to become Shawn Marion. If he can, as you say, keep himself on the court, and play at the level he did for 35 games this season, he's an all-star. That's a big stretch, but it's at least possible.

I like the Marion comparison but he needs to work on his shot. It can be done (ex: Channing Frye) if he works hard at it.

I basically agree on Fat's assessment. I'm still calling Dahntay Jones on Henderson, which is in that 3-3.5 range.

[Tupik]

lets put some agreeable context behind the 5 star system. if you say dj is a 5 star prospect you are leaving no room for the prospects that are miles ahead of him.

Exactly why I laugh at the idea of DJ being a 5 star prospect, and I agree with your post as a whole. 3.5 - 4 stars for DJ seems about right.

[BobsBuddy]

I think that Silas has made the right decision letting DJ play. Also he is now letting Livingston play more minutes at 1 and 2. the rotation here is good and will get better. I give both players 3.5 now. I doubt that Augustine will get much higher that an average point guard and question how his body will hold up over the years. Felton would have been a better long term investment with Brook lopez in the middle, but that is water under the bridge . Livingston will be a solid backup for us, but his knees will always keep him a backup and he probably doesn't have much trade value. Its sad but he could have been a great point except for his health.
Hendo is showing he has the potential to be a solid 2 guard and should be in the league for years. I believe that we could trade Jax now for a younger 2 guard and 1st round pick and get the same result this season with Hendo starting and a solid 2 guard backing him up.
UPS is a big question mark at the 3. With the summer league results he had and Silas attitude to play younger players I wonder why he is not getting more minutes??. I thought he was a future GW but now wonder if he might be included in our next trade. If GW twangs that ankle again we will see more of him if he is still here? Someday Crash will crash and burn and somebody will have to step up.
Dmac has great rebounding capabilitiy, but without a consistent shot will always be a solid bench player to backup at 3 or 4..TT is a starter and should be starting at the 4 with Diaw off the bench as 6th man
Collins is now a 3rd point guard and backup is the best he can hope for in his carreer

I think the recent 1 year signing of Silas indicates that Jax's time as a Bobcat maybe numbered and a trade for a pick and/or younger play may be in the works before the Deadline or in the off season.

[captaincrunk]

So you think Livo and Augustin are equal prospects?