[Camelo Thread Part 19] - Nyets won't be used pg 52

[Jmonty580]

Does Billups want to play in NY? Would he cause any problems? Or is it safe to assume that playing in NY with Melo AND Amare would be something he would embrace?

[I_Love_NYK]

Does Billups want to play in NY? Would he cause any problems? Or is it safe to assume that playing in NY with Melo AND Amare would be something he would embrace?

Billups preference is to stay home at Denver, he has pretty much accomplished everything. Won the NBA Finals MVP, been an All-Star. But if he was to be put in a situation to win another championship playing with two stars entering their primes, he would embrace it.

[klemen4]

One more proof Nets are out!!!

Nets, Blazers talking about Devin Harris deal
http://www.northjersey.com/sports/pro_s ... _deal.html

The Nets and Blazers have exchanged trade proposals and still are discussing a deal. Harris and veteran point guard Andre Miller are the main pieces, but more players are involved, multiple NBA sources said.

It’s doubtful the Nets will trade Harris, who turns 28 in two weeks, straight up for Miller, who turns 35 next month.

The Nets want to expand the trade and are trying to include disappointing free-agent signing Travis Outlaw, who began his career in Portland. The Blazers are interested in shooting guard Anthony Morrow.

Portland’s backup shooting guard Rudy Fernandez has been discussed, a source said. The Nets have talked about adding another big man so Joel Przybilla and his expiring contract also may be involved.

If the Nets’ talks with Denver turn serious, Harris may be needed for that deal. Everything is up in the air.

Portland GM Cho has said a few days ago that Carmelo trade will make domino affect. It looks they want Harris and hope NJN are out of Carmelo trade options.

[K_ick_God]

Does Billups want to play in NY? Would he cause any problems? Or is it safe to assume that playing in NY with Melo AND Amare would be something he would embrace?

$20M for rest of this season and next is something he'd embrace.

[kosmovitelli]

Source: 'The Nets Are Out' Of Carmelo Talks
Feb 17, 2011 08:50 AM EST


Reports have surfaced that the Nuggets and Nets are talking again about a trade to send Carmelo Anthony to New Jersey.

But a source with knowledge of the situation tells Alan Hahn of Newsday that the Nets reemergence is not genuine.

"The Nets are out," the source said.

Hahn writes that the Knicks are not confident that Denver actually knows what it wants from a deal for Anthony and offers his opinion that it is "amateur hour" in the Nuggets' front office.

Via Newsday

That is the best word to describe denver's FO! They leak false rumors to drive prices up, they offer absurd deals that no one in there right mind accept, they spend all there time trying to deal with teams that melo would have no interest in signing with...seems like amateur hour to me!

If their idea is :
- not to trade Melo
- or force him to accept a trade to another team (than the Knicks)
- or force him to sign an extension with Denver

then it's not the work of an amateur, it's simply a team refusing to accept less than fair market value for its player. No reason to blame them. The Rockets did the same last year when they wanted an incredible package (including no protection on the picks) and tried to make Walsh believe the Bulls were in the race for McGrady. Yesterday Melo said he expects something will be done (either extension or trade) and didn't mention free agency as an option if he's not traded. So far Melo gave them good reasons not to lower their asking price. Now it's up to Melo to call their bluff and accept to enter free agency (or cave in and accept to be traded on Denver's terms). It's a game of chicken and who blinks first.

The Nuggets know very well the Knicks will remain a trade partner until 3PM on february 24th so there's no need for them to negotiate now. They probably know how far Walsh is willing to go. And as I said yesterday, I believe the Nuggets have in mind a reasonable offer they know the Knicks would accept and if needed (if Kroenke asks Ujiri and his son to trade Melo) then they can always call the Knicks at the last minute and make that offer. Walsh would probably accept Chandler, Felton, Randolph and a future pick for Melo and Billups. Even if it's at the last minute. In the meantime, there's also a chance Melo will cave in and accept a trade to another team.

If you put yourself in the Nuggets shoes, it makes perfect sense not to negotiate with the Knicks at this point. Like last year with Jeffries when he accepted to part with a 2012 first round pick (+ a swap), Walsh may accept to offer more assets closer to the deadline, not now. Wether it comes from the Nuggets or the Knicks or both, concessions are usually made at the last minute. Something will happen when push comes to shove. I think Knicks and Nuggets will start serious talks on monday (after AS weekend).

[Jmonty580]

Does Billups want to play in NY? Would he cause any problems? Or is it safe to assume that playing in NY with Melo AND Amare would be something he would embrace?

$23M is something he'd embrace.

Thats the main reason I think he would stay. A year in NY, he knows he would just be a stop gap with no serious chances of actually staying in NY. With Amare and Melo we'd be good, but I'm not sure we are Championship level at that point with Billups for a year. I think more than anything he'd want that money, he knows he's not getting another HUGE payday, gotta take all the money he can get at this point in his career, and I cant blame him either. I dont think he wants to come to NY though.

[kingmalaki]

Again I will post a calculation I made before, because some posters are forgetting what is necessary for Walsh to give in trade and what not!

Walsh will now offer the players(contracts) NY would lose anyway in summer if wanted to make enough room($16m to $18m) to sign Carmelo as FA.

Following the calculation NY would be at $44.65m for 10 players, add to that 0,5m for one cap hold. So the final number is $45,15m for 11 players.

1. Stat 18.2
2. Felton 7.6
3. Turiaf 4.4
4. Mozgov 3.3
5. Gallinari 4.2
6. Randolph 2.9
7. Douglas 1.1
8. Walker 0.9
9. Fields 0.8
10. 2011 draft pick 1.25
11. Cap hold 0.5
-----------------------
$45,15m for 11 players.

So if Randolph is traded for pick (the best 2012 pick) you have $2,4m more room ($2,9m Randolph - $0,5m cap hold). So the final number is $42,75m meaning there is $15,25 to $17,25m left for Carmelo depending if the cap will be $58m or $60m. Enough!!!

So that why I think Chandler + Randolph pick (Curry+others) is the right offer.

But because NY signing Carmelo as FA loses MLE and bi-annual exception Walsh must add something in trade now. That is why at least one young player must be in!

MLE,bi-annual exception Vs. Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov'

For both sides IMO...

Chandler
Randolph OR pick
Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov

...is a fair offer.

Either way Chandler and Randolph are gone in summer to have enough cap space. Now it is only a question what would you rather have MLE,bi-annual exception(trade now) OR Gallinari/Fields/Mozgov(sign Melo in summer).

The thing is that's NOT a fair offer. A late pick and some average players isn't fair value for a top 10 player. It's only fair from NYs perspective because they think Melo will sign as a FA. It's only fair for Denver from the perspective of "get something back from someone who will leave anyway". 

You can't be mad at Denver for actually trying to get full value for a top 10 player. The new rumor that involves 5 players and a pick...that's "too much"...if the Knicks offered that package for Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Howard, Durant, Rose, etc....then they would get rejected and laughed at. The Nuggets only leverage is their ability to get Melo more $$. So don't be mad at them for trying to maximize that for the real value of a top 10 player. Be mad at Melo. If he really wants to be in NY he is free to pass up $$ and sign there. But that's not to the Nuggets benefit.

[johnnywishbone]

At least this bit from the Berman piece is encouraging:

There are suggestions owner James Dolan is pressuring Walsh to give up what it takes.

But the league source said, "There's no disconnect there. Everyone there wants a good deal. Nobody wants a bad deal."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/s ... z1EExcIEa5

[Jay10]

lol@ brandon tierney

[mpharris36]

Again I will post a calculation I made before, because some posters are forgetting what is necessary for Walsh to give in trade and what not!

Walsh will now offer the players(contracts) NY would lose anyway in summer if wanted to make enough room($16m to $18m) to sign Carmelo as FA.

Following the calculation NY would be at $44.65m for 10 players, add to that 0,5m for one cap hold. So the final number is $45,15m for 11 players.

1. Stat 18.2
2. Felton 7.6
3. Turiaf 4.4
4. Mozgov 3.3
5. Gallinari 4.2
6. Randolph 2.9
7. Douglas 1.1
8. Walker 0.9
9. Fields 0.8
10. 2011 draft pick 1.25
11. Cap hold 0.5
-----------------------
$45,15m for 11 players.

So if Randolph is traded for pick (the best 2012 pick) you have $2,4m more room ($2,9m Randolph - $0,5m cap hold). So the final number is $42,75m meaning there is $15,25 to $17,25m left for Carmelo depending if the cap will be $58m or $60m. Enough!!!

So that why I think Chandler + Randolph pick (Curry+others) is the right offer.

But because NY signing Carmelo as FA loses MLE and bi-annual exception Walsh must add something in trade now. That is why at least one young player must be in!

MLE,bi-annual exception Vs. Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov'

For both sides IMO...

Chandler
Randolph OR pick
Gallinari OR Fields OR Mozgov

...is a fair offer.

Either way Chandler and Randolph are gone in summer to have enough cap space. Now it is only a question what would you rather have MLE,bi-annual exception(trade now) OR Gallinari/Fields/Mozgov(sign Melo in summer).

The thing is that's NOT a fair offer. A late pick and some average players isn't fair value for a top 10 player. It's only fair from NYs perspective because they think Melo will sign as a FA. It's only fair for Denver from the perspective of "get something back from someone who will leave anyway". 

You can't be mad at Denver for actually trying to get full value for a top 10 player. The new rumor that involves 5 players and a pick...that's "too much"...if the Knicks offered that package for Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Howard, Durant, Rose, etc....then they would get rejected and laughed at. The Nuggets only leverage is their ability to get Melo more $$. So don't be mad at them for trying to maximize that for the real value of a top 10 player. Be mad at Melo. If he really wants to be in NY he is free to pass up $$ and sign there. But that's not to the Nuggets benefit.

You make some very valid points and have a good over all thesis hear. However you are missing one major key is leverage. Carmelo wants to play in NY and the threat of him leaving is to great for denver to just take there chances and let him leave for nothing (examples Toronto and Cavs).

A perfect example of leverage will be Chris Paul and Deron Williams. Right now if you offered them a package of 2 decent young players a matching contract and a few picks they would laugh at you. But come next year when those players are on the last year of there contract they will have the leverage and if they will want to play for so and so team the hornets and jazz will have to lower their demands.

Also the fact of the matter is that the knicks refuse to bid against themselves. Name me one valid team out there that is going after amare? If denver wants to risk losing him for nothing then be may guest but don't send (Please Use More Appropriate Word) trade offers to us when you have no leverage.

[aggo]

BT and Hahn now both are saying that Dolan is not getting in the way

I think most fans will breathe a huge sigh of relief.

Dolan getting in the middle of this would most certainly foreshadow Donnie's future.

Seems like Dolan is really hands off here but who knows what happens in the 10th hour when Melo still isnt delivered....

[mpharris36]

lol@ brandon tierney

what did he say?

[seren]

At least this bit from the Berman piece is encouraging:

There are suggestions owner James Dolan is pressuring Walsh to give up what it takes.

But the league source said, "There's no disconnect there. Everyone there wants a good deal. Nobody wants a bad deal."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/s ... z1EExcIEa5

That league source is Hahn. These guys are bunch of hacks.

[j4remi]

lol@ brandon tierney

Denver demands:
5 Knicks city dancers
3 pairs of Clyde's shoes
Mike Breen
The Garden Ceiling
Dolan's guitar
Stephon's towel he used to bury his head in

[magnumt]

The general consensus around the league is that the Nuggets are making one last call to potential suitors before ultimately entering serious talks with the New York Knicks over the All-Star break.

Even with the Nets answering the phone, the Knicks are still the team to watch as the deadline approaches.

Talks between Denver and New York have progressed, and one source said that a deal between the two sides is "65 percent complete" with the specifics to be worked out when the two parties meet face to face over the All-Star break. A similar meeting has not been scheduled with the Nets, nor has a meeting between the team's officials and Anthony been discussed as of yet.

Both Denver and New York are hesitant to meet the other's needs, but all of the involved parties have started making plans that suggest a trade is inevitable. The Knicks have reached out to several free agents with the assumption that they'll have open roster spots to fill after the deadline, including one player that is very close with Anthony.

New York doesn't want to gut their roster for Anthony and Denver doesn't want to let the Knicks make out like a bandit in any deal. But at the end of the day, league sources continue to believe that one side will budge.

In recent years, All-Star Weekend has been a hotbed for trade rumors involving star players and that will likely continue this year. While teams generally don't finalize trades during the break, deals are often consummated and become official shortly after.

With trade talks expected to advance and face to face meetings already scheduled, it's very possible that Anthony has played his last game as a member of the Denver Nuggets.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=18800

--Mags

[kosmovitelli]

Franchise tag will never happen. Stern already said it would be unfair and threw cold water on it.

It's not up to Stern to decide. It's a negotiation between the owners and the players association.

Franchise tag would be a pretty big concession so if the owners want the players to accept that then they need to make a similar (big) concession. I think franchise tag is just a way for owners to scare the players. There's no franchise tag right now in the current CBA so if the players say no to franchise tag and the owners accept then it will be viewed as a victory for the players. Basically owners will say "ok we made a concession, no franchise tag so now it's your turn to make a concession". The truth is owners never made a concession in the first place because franchise tag wasn't a provision included in the current CBA while the players will have to make real concessions on rules written in the current CBA.

[Jay10]

lol@ brandon tierney

Denver demands:
5 Knicks city dancers
3 pairs of Clyde's shoes
Mike Breen
The Garden Ceiling
Dolan's guitar
Stephon's towel he used to bury his head in

hahahahahahahahaha

[Fury]

Kobe?

[seren]

who is that FA close to Melo?

[seren]

i think www may be coming as a player.