Is Fess the Answer defensively??

HolyToledo · Post #1 » by **HolyToledo** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:16 pm

I found an interesting defensive stat about Fess. It makes me think he should start with Millsap coming off the bench!

According to basketballvalue.com, Utah gives up 97.53 points per 100 possessions when he's on the floor … and 109.78 when he isn't. That 12.26 point differential is by far the greatest on the team and leads one to wonder why he hasn't been paired more with either Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap -- perhaps even as a starter.

HammerDunk · Post #2 » by **HammerDunk** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:19 pm

Our offense also comes to a grinding halt when he is on the floor. He is also usually on with other teams 2nd units. Fess needs to learn how to stay on the floor and not foul at such a crazy rate. He also just needs to be traded. He is going nowhere, and I think the Jazz could potentially get something worthwhile for him out of Houston.

Soul Patch · Post #3 » by **Soul Patch** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:49 pm

I've always been a Fes believer. I think he should start with Jefferson. He's becoming less of a liability on offense, he's not a black hole, he just needs to rebound better.

HammerDunk · Post #4 » by **HammerDunk** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:01 pm

Soul Patch wrote:I've always been a Fes believer. I think he should start with Jefferson. He's becoming less of a liability on offense, he's not a black hole, he just needs to rebound better.

I hear what you're saying. He still makes all the rookie mistakes, other than better passing. He doesn't box out well and has terrible hands, doesn't play tough at all (I wish he would make his many fouls worthwhile and make guys earn their points, rather than swiping at the ball), and has 1 good offensive play or move out of 10. Will minutes help? Probably, but he isn't going to get them, so he's simply not going to develop. If he had a decent work ethic, he would me light years ahead of where he is now, but he is lazy.

Gothapotamus · Post #5 » by **Gothapotamus** » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:02 pm

perhaps the Jazz need to go out and get a coach who knows how to coach big men... I think they have the bodies, but they still need to hear it from someone who know's from experience. Look at what Ewing has done for Dwight...

retiredcoach · Post #6 » by **retiredcoach** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:09 am

I found an interesting defensive stat about Fess. It makes me think he should start with Millsap coming off the bench!

According to basketballvalue.com, Utah gives up 97.53 points per 100 possessions when he's on the floor … and 109.78 when he isn't. That 12.26 point differential is by far the greatest on the team and leads one to wonder why he hasn't been paired more with either Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap -- perhaps even as a starter.

The 12.26 pt differential is based on 82games definition of + - stat analysis. There are detailed explanations of the good and bad of the plus minus stat. Fes is one of the players that due to his limited minutes looks better on the plus minus stats than he would be with more playing time.

I'm not a Fes fan. I think he'll be 5 to 10 minute backup center with limited contribution. It's not playing time he needs. I see several problems. He's mentally not into the game. His brain doesn't seem to be in control of his body. Sometimes he doesn't seem to understand why he is in the game, and what he has to do to make a difference. I don't think those things are fixable, at least not by a coach.

HammerDunk · Post #7 » by **HammerDunk** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:12 am

retiredcoach wrote:
I found an interesting defensive stat about Fess. It makes me think he should start with Millsap coming off the bench!

According to basketballvalue.com, Utah gives up 97.53 points per 100 possessions when he's on the floor … and 109.78 when he isn't. That 12.26 point differential is by far the greatest on the team and leads one to wonder why he hasn't been paired more with either Al Jefferson or Paul Millsap -- perhaps even as a starter.

The 12.26 pt differential is based on 82games definition of + - stat analysis. There are detailed explanations of the good and bad of the plus minus stat. Fes is one of the players that due to his limited minutes looks better on the plus minus stats than he would be with more playing time.

I'm not a Fes fan. I think he'll be 5 to 10 minute backup center with limited contribution. It's not playing time he needs. I see several problems. He's mentally not into the game. His brain doesn't seem to be in control of his body. Sometimes he doesn't seem to understand why he is in the game, and what he has to do to make a difference. I don't think those things are fixable, at least not by a coach.

Exactly. Fess is no Dwight Howard, I don't care who you get to coach him, he has very limited potential. I love his personality, he is funny as hell, and a perfect fan favorite, but game wise, he is no good for the Jazz.

retiredcoach · Post #8 » by **retiredcoach** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:35 am

Yeah, Fes is interesting.

A couple of things I've been told about practice are telling in regard to how he thinks.

Sometimes Evans, Hayward and Fes will play two on one for practice. Hayward breaks them down. That should not happen given Fes's physical size. I think it's a concentration thing. (It also says fans haven't seen anything close to the best of Hayward yet. )

On the other hand when Fes is working one on one with someone like Hornacek, who keeps him focused, Fes looks good.

Free throw shooting is about focus and repetitive motion muscle training. Fans like to see creative athleticism during games, but what makes great players great is the ability to repeat certain motions in almost perfect sequence over and over under differing circumstances.

Yao Ming hits 82% from the line. Ilgauskas hits 78%. Longley hit 76%. Kareem hit 72%. Shawn Bradley hit 71%. Mutombo hit 68%. Sampson hit 66%. Mark Eaton hit 65%. Manute Bol hit 56%. Ostertag shot 57%. Shaquille shoots 52%. And the ugliest weirdest looking center ever to sit on an NBA bench, Chuck Nevitt, shot 59% and I didn't think he could walk off the court without tripping.

Fes shoots 38%.

Only 27 centers in the NBA have been taller than Fes. And all them shot better from the line. It's not a lack of playing time.

Neon Black · Post #9 » by **Neon Black** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:48 am

Fes likes alcohol.

Luigi · Post #10 » by **Luigi** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:46 am

Fes has contributed a lot more than we are giving him credit. He's done a lot of what is asked of him in the playing time he's had. Remember the Denver series?

I'm actually impressed with him offensively enough of the time. He looks like he makes calculated moves to the basket (a lot of bad bigs post up, only to pass right back out without any attempt at a move, Fes tries multiple), and passes well enough when they don't work out.

Defensively, I like his size, but he needs to stop fouling. Araujo's agent was touting his +/- numbers the year he left Utah. He had one of the best +/- ratings of all NBA players. My point is that Utah's third string centers get minutes that mess up that stat pretty bad.

His lack of focus is somewhat covered up by the fact that he's always in the paint. It takes two guys to box him out: he's a big that at least knows his role. I haven't noticed a high rate of mistakes out of him, either; he just gets out of position once in a while, which is to be expected for the heaviest player in the league not names Shaq. I really think a lot of his game is being limited by refs who continue to call him like a rookie. Yeah, he's a goofy looking euro center, but he deserves a fair shake by this point.

I don't know about starting him, but I would like to see him get a consistent 5 minutes a night. I think the team would benefit from having a true center on the floor for a bit every night. If he starts getting killed in the pick and roll, you have to go with Elson (that man moves his feet like a balerina for his size), but I'm all for seeing Fes play every game.

Soul Patch · Post #11 » by **Soul Patch** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:47 am

I agree with everything Luigi said.

retiredcoach · Post #12 » by **retiredcoach** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:28 pm

He averages 8 minutes a game and has since he's been with the Jazz.

Do you think there's a reason he can only stay on the court for a total of 8 minutes?

HammerDunk · Post #13 » by **HammerDunk** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:08 pm

Regardless of how many minutes he spends on the floor, he should have developed more by this time. We are still treating him like a rookie, and he isn't. He isn't constantly injured like Bynum either. I don't get all the excuses, this guy is a really cool guy, but his game is just not going to work for the Jazz. I would actually rather see him go to a team that will put the time and effort into him that he needs to develop IF it's going to happen.

Fido · Post #14 » by **Fido** » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:05 pm

The only team I see him getting "time and effort" put into him like he needs is in the NBDL.

Post #15 » by **jazzfan1971** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:07 am

Fes still need to learn his role. The other day I saw him chuck up what i think was a lefty hook. Was an air ball. I think I saw him decide to launch an 18 footer the other day as well.

If someone could get it through his head that his scoring opportunities rely on dunks, dunks, and more dunks, I think he would be more useful.