Carmelo Anthony Thread (Denver Finalizes Deal With Knicks)

[Pugsley_2491]

The 4 first round picks is pissing me off. This years pick better have a lotto protection on it otherwise I'll be pissed. I'm not talking top 5 or top 10 protected I want it a fully protected lotto pick.

[dice]

As various writers reported Thursday, the Nets would send Devin Harris, Troy Murphy, Derrick Favors, Ben Uzoh, their own pick in 2011 and three protected picks acquired in trades to Denver for Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Renald Balkman and Melvin Ely. Denver would then package Murphy and at least one of those picks in a separate deal with the Cavaliers. It's uncertain who the Cavs would send west.

So I'll make it clearer. This is the deal:

Devin Harris
Troy Murphy
Derrick Favors
Ben Uzoh
Nets 2011 #1
Lakers 2011 #1
GSW 2012 #1
Houstons 2012 #1

For

Carmelo Anthony
Chauncey Billups
Sheldon Williams
Melvin Ely
Renaldo Balkman

I still don't think Melo is worth Favors, 2 lotto picks (GSW will likely be one) and 2 additional late firsts (never know either with Houstons)

houston's will probably be a lotto pick too

i've heard the GSW pick is protected though, no?

edit: answered own question on GSW pick - top 7 protected next 2 years, top 6 protected 2014. so the houston pick is actually a bit more valuable because of the upside potential

[jeff1624]

Houston's pick is lottery protected for like the next 4 years. Not sure why people are under the misconception that it's a lottery pick. I couldn't care less about that pick, what really bothers me is that we're sending out our own 2011 pick. That bitch better be top 10 protected.

[dice]

Houston's pick is lottery protected for like the next 4 years

yeah, just found that out too

what really bothers me is that we're sending out our own 2011 pick. That bitch better be top 10 protected.

i hear ya

question from non-nets fan: where do you think favors would go in a redo of last year's draft?

[Rich Rane]

Houston's pick is lottery protected for like the next 4 years. Not sure why people are under the misconception that it's a lottery pick.

Correct. Here's a bit of literature for anyone else looking.

--The Rockets' 2012 first rounder. The pick is lottery protected (1-14) through 2016. If the Rockets pick falls in the lottery in 2012, the pick rolls over each year, again through 2016. In 2017, it would become a second round pick.

http://www.netsdaily.com/2010/12/14/187 ... with-trade

[shrink]

While I'm usually OK with overpaying for a rare superstar, if the deal is Favors, Harris and four picks, I think that's badly overpaying. Sure, DEN wanted a ton from NYK, but NYK refused, and I see no reason should exceed DEN's request.

It seems to me that if Murphy was sent to a team like MIN or CLE + GSW 1st for cap space, the huge savings for DEN, at a minimum, ought to get you to be able to keep the 2011 NJN 1st.

[Preludepunk27]

I say they bring Portland into this deal. Have them take Harris, send Denver either Joel or Andre's expiring (Miller is a team option next year) and get a #1 from Denver so we can keep one of the picks we're sending. It's just overkill that we send 4 damn picks there when they're getting Favors too.

Case in point:

The Boston Celtics announced today that they have acquired 10-time All-Star and 2004 MVP Kevin Garnett from the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick (top three protected) and a return of Minnesota's conditional first round draft pick previously obtained in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade. Minnesota also receives cash considerations in the deal.

Minny got Ryan Gomes (decent but not value equivalent to Harris), Gerald Green (equivalent uzoh even at that point in his young career), Al Jefferson (aka Derrick in our deal), Theo Ratliff (Murphy), Sebastian Telfair (worthless, equivalent to a late first or #2) and a 1st round pick.

This equates, at best in relation to our situation to be:
KG for Derrick, Murphy, Harris, Uzoh and 2 1sts. That means that We are technically sending 2 first round picks for Chauncey, Sheldon, Ely and Balkman.

When you compare it that way I'm not as angry, but it comes down to personal interpretations. If the Nets Roster went back in time for 4 years ago, would you do Harris, Favors, Uzoh, Murphy and 2 firsts for KG? I mean everyone talked about how McHale gifted KG to the Celtics in that deal. Would you have done this deal if it was for KG 4 years ago?

Now after you answer that, ask "Is Carmelo Anthony on the same level as Garnett even though Garnett was older at the time that trade went down?"

I answer no to that question. Since I wouldn't give up 2 firsts for Chauncey, Balkman, Williams and Ely either, that basically translates into "We are giving up too much for this deal!"

Just another angle for everyone to think about here.

[vincecarter4pres]

Houston's pick is lottery protected for like the next 4 years. Not sure why people are under the misconception that it's a lottery pick. I couldn't care less about that pick, what really bothers me is that we're sending out our own 2011 pick. That bitch better be top 10 protected.

These are my thoughts exactly.

The Houston and LAL picks I could care less about and I'm sure Denver feels almost the same.

I could deal with Favors being involved, you have to give to get and he's a huge question mark, plus this deal doesn't have us taking back any bad salary.

I am fine with the Billups for Devin swap. Billups is still the better point guard for the rest of this season and probably next even if Devin is younger and the better overall player.

The GSW pick, it kind of pisses me off, but I'm not really that mad over it. The only reason it even bothers me is because it's a potentially valuable chip to use in a future deal.

The one that has me irate, is out of all of these assets, two pretty valuable(Devin and the GSW 1st) and one enormously valuable(Derrick Favors) is the 2011 NJ pick.

If that was to be included and this deal ultimately gets done it's the ultimate slap in the face and SNAFU and it was true all along, Denver was dragging this out to make sure that pick was as high lotto as possible.

That pick is super valuable unprotected and god forbid it becomes Kyrie Irving.

On top of this, this deal should have been done months ago and we should be around the 8th or 7th seed right now with room to move up, instead of lotto bound with our pick shipped to the Asshat Society that is Denver's FO.

For real, that pick better be at minimum top 7 protected and more desirably top 10 protected.

I know I'm severely overreacting here, because nothing is concrete yet and even if that pick is included it could very well have solid protection on it, but as Speedy said, where there is smoke there is fire and right now you need to stop, drop and roll just to open a Twitter link.

[old skool]

I think that Prokhorov is likely dealing with two very different dynamics. The Nets want Anthony for themselves, but the REALLY want to keep Anthony away from the Knicks.

One, the Nets will make a big splash if they can sign Anthony. So it makes sense to make the Nuggets a big offer and see if they can seal that deal.

Two, if the Nets make a big offer to the Nuggets but can't sign Anthony to the extension, they raise the bar for the Knicks to acquire Anthony this trade deadline. Even if they can't convince Anthony to sign, they might cause the Knicks some grief and encourage the Knicks to throw in another player or pick or both. As a result, maybe they weaken the Knicks a little.

oLd sKool

[vincecarter4pres]

I think that Prokhorov is likely dealing with two very different dynamics. The Nets want Anthony for themselves, but the REALLY want to keep Anthony away from the Knicks.

One, the Nets will make a big splash if they can sign Anthony. So it makes sense to make the Nuggets a big offer and see if they can seal that deal.

Two, if the Nets make a big offer to the Nuggets but can't sign Anthony to the extension, they raise the bar for the Knicks to acquire Anthony this trade deadline. Even if they can't convince Anthony to sign, they might cause the Knicks some grief and encourage the Knicks to throw in another player or pick or both. As a result, maybe they weaken the Knicks a little.

oLd sKool

Yeah, we all understand this, but what does this have to do with bidding against ourselves?

And all this is moot, because without Anthony's blessing, nothing gets done anyway.

[624]

At this point I am not going to get caught up in any rumor or believe anything until something actually happens..

[BadMofoPimp]

I don't know. There have been many championship caliber teams that were built without the use of lottery drafted players. The Pistons when they won it (Tayshaun was around 14th pick), Lakers, Boston, Heat etc. As long as Prokhorov has a plan to build the team via signings and trades, they could succeed. He just has to sell that to Melo.

here is a good article just released with the deets:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Rewr ... eal-021811

[DusterBuster]

I say they bring Portland into this deal. Have them take Harris, send Denver either Joel or Andre's expiring (Miller is a team option next year) and get a #1 from Denver so we can keep one of the picks we're sending. It's just overkill that we send 4 damn picks there when they're getting Favors too.

Bringing Portland into this deal is a non-starter. As much sense as it would make considering Portland has 2 first rounders to trade, the Nuggets are absolutely obsessed with getting Batum from the Blazers. The Nuggets will demand that the Blazers send Batum out along with Miller to get Harris, and the Blazers will unquestionably refuse to do that.

For what it's worth, there is a rumor being reported on the radio here in Portland that a "source" is saying that if the Melo to NJ deal falls through, the Miller for Harris deal will definitely go down in some form.

[Val Holliday]

what signings and trades can the Nets realistically pull off if this deal gets done?

Assume they keep Billups next year and sign Carmelo to a max extension, that'll put their payroll near the current cap. If they decline Billups they free up 14 million but now they have another massive hole in the roster. They'd be pretty arrogant to do all of this with the intention of grabbing Paul or Williams in 2012/13 offseason. Trades for anyone of impact will be completely out of the question unless they move Lopez, but he's the only cost effective young guy they will have. NJ should just stand pat and continue building their roster in a financially responsible manner instead of with all this big dick posturing and bravado.

[shrink]

Marc Stein Twitter: "If Melo surprises us all w/about face and says he'll sign extension w/Nets, Yahoo reports Nets would give up four first-rounders w/Favors." "But sources told ESPN.com that Nuggets would not get all four firsts. At least one would be packaged with Troy Murphy to a TBD third team." "DEN has consistently said it won't take Murphy's $12M expiring for luxury-tax reasons. It's believed teams out there WOULD to get that pick."

[shrink]

here is a good article just released with the deets:

SportsDome!

[enetric]

After the Nuggets reached out and contacted the Nets more than a week ago to re-open talks, both sides collaborated on a deal that has settled into the following form: The Nets would send rookie Derrick Favors, point guard Devin Harris, forward Troy Murphy with his expiring $11.9 million contract and rookie guard Ben Uzoh plus four first-round draft picks to the Nuggets for Anthony, point guard Chauncey Billups, forwards Renaldo Balkman and Shelden Williams, and center Melvin Ely.
The Nets would surrender their own first-round pick for June's NBA Draft along with a pair of 2012 picks, a protected-to-18 pick received from the Lakers and a protected-to-7 pick from the Warriors, and a 2011 lottery-protected Rockets pick.

[url]http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/nets_rushin_to_meet_with_melo_anAVGLOjISasTihwAQvzMO#

ixzz1EJQesxlT[/url]

OMG...so we tell the Nuggets to STFU, this costs too much for us to get involved in a month ago, the Nuggets call US to re-engage us, and somehow we end up giving more than what we rejected back then?!?!

Favors (top 3)
Nets (top 10)
Rockets (lotto protected)
2012 Lakers
2012 Warriors

?!?!?

I am soooo ready to jump off this ship.

My head is exploding that we could be this stupid. My hope is that Melo says screw that. This trade is simply awful.

[deepblueday]

Corrections welcomed, just trying to figure out what we would be minimally committed to for next year if this went down... Sasha, Kris, Ross, Ely, S. Williams all expiring... Graham is a team option...So that leaves us with:

Billups
Carmelo
Balkman
Outlaw
Morrow
Farmar
Petro
Lopez
D. James

Total committed salary for 2011-2012: 56, 983, 644

Cap this year was 58,000,000.

[enetric]

Houston's pick is lottery protected for like the next 4 years

yeah, just found that out too

what really bothers me is that we're sending out our own 2011 pick. That bitch better be top 10 protected.

i hear ya

question from non-nets fan: where do you think favors would go in a redo of last year's draft?

Second. Forget how he has played.....its what GM's see long term. Beyond Wall he is now the most respected prospect from that draft. And no...I dont feel anything but relieved that we didnt take Cousins. He is doing what I expected. Stats with turmoil. Not interested since I expect the turmoil to increase faster than his development.


I am shocked Turner hasnt been better. I felt he was going to impress right out of the gate.

[enetric]

I say they bring Portland into this deal. Have them take Harris, send Denver either Joel or Andre's expiring (Miller is a team option next year) and get a #1 from Denver so we can keep one of the picks we're sending. It's just overkill that we send 4 damn picks there when they're getting Favors too.

Case in point:

The Boston Celtics announced today that they have acquired 10-time All-Star and 2004 MVP Kevin Garnett from the Minnesota Timberwolves in exchange for Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Al Jefferson, Theo Ratliff, Sebastian Telfair, a 2009 first round draft pick (top three protected) and a return of Minnesota's conditional first round draft pick previously obtained in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade. Minnesota also receives cash considerations in the deal.

Minny got Ryan Gomes (decent but not value equivalent to Harris), Gerald Green (equivalent uzoh even at that point in his young career), Al Jefferson (aka Derrick in our deal), Theo Ratliff (Murphy), Sebastian Telfair (worthless, equivalent to a late first or #2) and a 1st round pick.

This equates, at best in relation to our situation to be:
KG for Derrick, Murphy, Harris, Uzoh and 2 1sts. That means that We are technically sending 2 first round picks for Chauncey, Sheldon, Ely and Balkman.

When you compare it that way I'm not as angry, but it comes down to personal interpretations. If the Nets Roster went back in time for 4 years ago, would you do Harris, Favors, Uzoh, Murphy and 2 firsts for KG? I mean everyone talked about how McHale gifted KG to the Celtics in that deal. Would you have done this deal if it was for KG 4 years ago?

Now after you answer that, ask "Is Carmelo Anthony on the same level as Garnett even though Garnett was older at the time that trade went down?"

I answer no to that question. Since I wouldn't give up 2 firsts for Chauncey, Balkman, Williams and Ely either, that basically translates into "We are giving up too much for this deal!"

Just another angle for everyone to think about here.

There is one other thing you are forgetting. When Boston did that deal they got to keep Perkins and their other big time prospect in Rondo...and they had just landed Allen for the #5 pick in the draft plus they had Pierce. So they added KG to a team thatonly needed to add some filler with their exceptions.

This trade is like them saying...OK we'll take that #5 pick and that Rondo kid too because we want every single piece of value you have. And then not being able to add the other things you need to contend.


This trade guts us...and adds a mega contract at the worst possible time in our development for a rebuild. I dont see Rondo, Allen, Perkins, Pierce and some MLE cash around do you? I see Brook, Hump, Favors and Morrow and add in Billups and no other tradeable assets to make the next move we would need to be a good team. This organization is prepared to sell us locked in medicority for a 4 years at its best so they have a big name to put on the poster. I cant believe they are really thinking about doing this deal.