Carmelo Anthony Thread (Denver Finalizes Deal With Knicks)

[enetric]

i don't think it's just about talent, melo would actually draw fans in, maybe save the franchise, who knows.

Save it for who?

I could care less about drawing more fans and driving our team to the middle for many years. There is another way to draw fans. Build it right....build a winner.

This trade is a dissaster. After one year it would be obvious that we are going no where. Capped out with no shot to improve.

[enetric]

James Dolan met with Carmelo Anthony late Thursday in Los Angeles, The Daily News has learned, in what could be the first step in Anthony being traded to the Knicks.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... _On_Friday

If this is true, this could be a slap in the face clear violation of tampering. Why the hell would Denver authorize New York to contact Carmelo if there was no clear tentative agreement?

This is where I'm pissed at our front office. Even if New York did have an agreement that Denver is actually willing to say yes to (along with Anthony), why do we allow ourselves to get back into the fold other than to enter a bidding war?

Obviously they gave permission. And they gave permission because they are smart salesmen. First rule of sales is...put the product in the customers hands. Make Dolan want Melo...Dolan thinks about what he could lose rather than what it will cost him by letting Melo go elsewhere. Smart move.

I give Denver all the credit in the world here. They have NO leverage. We have seen this time and time again and the player gets what he wants, the new team pays 50 cents on the dollar and the old team gets screwed. Denver is trying a new apporach and if you believe the rumors....its working. They are turning no leverage into a kings ransom.

And honestly? If he goes to the KNicks for all their assets...MAZEL TOV!!!!

I dont want him for all of ours. Hopefully we are back in this to drive up his price and nothing more.

Knicks owner James Dolan could execute a trade for Carmelo Anthony as soon as Saturday, according to Frank Isola of the New York Daily News.
Isola reports that Dolan has taken over the trade discussions and is ready to overrule Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni, who Isola says are not in favor of the trade.

See this last part? LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If Dolan is calling the shots...that makes me very happy. The only smart hoops mind over there is Walsh. If Dolan is messing things up again...AWESOME.

[enetric]

I don't know. There have been many championship caliber teams that were built without the use of lottery drafted players. The Pistons when they won it (Tayshaun was around 14th pick), Lakers, Boston, Heat etc. As long as Prokhorov has a plan to build the team via signings and trades, they could succeed. He just has to sell that to Melo.

here is a good article just released with the deets:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Rewr ... eal-021811

The Pistons got there by trading Grant Hill...their franchise player who they obtained as the #3 player in the draft. Boston gave up a #5 to acquire Allen, and a stud PF in Jefferson who was a lottery pick among other players. The Heat? Really? Wade was a top 5 pick. How did they get Shaq? By giving up a former top 10 pick (Odom), and another top 10 pick (Butler).

The only exception to it was the Lakers...but they are the Lakers and there were some fortuitous (if not sneaky) bounces their way in getting Shaq and Kobe.

In the last 25+ seasons the only teams that have won it all did so with at least one top THREE NBA player of that season and most of the time another guy who was top 10. The Pistons (thanks to Kobe's selefish play) were the only true exception to the rule. The Piston bad boys could be the other...but Zeke is still an all time HOF player and was a top 10 player at that time with a stacked team behind him including another uber star in Dumars and the best defensive team I have ever seen. All the rest did it with superstars. And as Speedy pointed out...lottery picks either played for those teams...or they led to the creation of them.

[enetric]

Those who are complaining about the team being gutted as if the team is good as it are really trippen. If you dont have a star than you have nothing to build. If you have Melo and Lopez then you are in a greater position to than you were before by miles. Be patient play the market and wait for the right oputurnity to snab a third star. This team will be a top team in the east and a draft pick will be a late rounder nothing to cry about. Billups will have an expiring contract and will be of great trade value.

If we are capped out and have no trade assets, and no draft picks...how do we do that?

We arent good...but we have a way to get there. Gutting the team for Melo and still having contrats we cant move makes no sense. Melo/Brook arent Lebron/Wade/Bosh. And they arent KG/Allen/Pierce/Rondo. They arent Kobe/Gasol/Odom/Bynum. But they are a team just as screwed cap wise and draft wise if we make this rumored deal. There is no waiting for anything. Its a team of an overrated Melo, a dissapointing 2011 Brook who we hope gets back on track, an old Billups, an untradeable Outlaw and a few OK role guys like Morrow, Farmar and Humphries to go along with some other crap contracts Denver will throw out way.

That team sucks. Melo hasnt done jack with vastly superior teams. Why would we do more with less and an older Melo i we have even less flexibility than Denver has had to improve the roster?

Its short sighted to think...hey just get better now...and then worry about tomorrow tomorrow. Doesnt work that way in the NBA. The cap, the 125% trade rule, and the draft system do not allow it. Every move you make affects the next one.

[enetric]

question from non-nets fan: where do you think favors would go in a redo of last year's draft?

Second. Forget how he has played.....its what GM's see long term. Beyond Wall he is now the most respected prospect from that draft

i buy that. but perhaps my question should've been "where would he go in a typical draft?"

i did an analysis of this trade to see just how bad it would be for jersey and placed favors's value as a #5 pick. as it turned out, based on draft results going back to the early '80s, this trade would cost the nets an equivalent opportunity to land an allstar (1 point)/superstar (2 points) as would trading the #1 overall pick in the draft. and you'd be giving up all that value simply for the right to throw way too much money at a quasi-superstar. not to mention the fact that the knicks would be better off in the long run

it appears that whoever gets melo will be shooting themselves in the foot

All along I felt that the Knicks were the team that would get him and the one team that could get him for a steal ebcause Melo is calling the shots. Not one wants to match a contract that big for a rental. So typically the extension issue is the chip that has the player calling all the shots. The player says THAT TEAM AND THAT TEAM ONLY...and that team gets to steal the player if the franchise is hell bent on making a deal.

I also felt...after the Knicks went al in and committed to Amare for 100mil...they are now all about the big trade. They cant draft a major player. They have limitted ability to sign a major player unless the CBA helps them out. So? Trade for the guy. But, I figured they would get him for almost nothing.

If Dolan gives up all his remaining pieces to land Melo...well that makes more sense than it does for us...because as I said they are already committed to this building direction. They dont have the pipeline of draft picks to work with. Plus...Brook AINT AMARE. No comparison. I like Brook...and thought we had an all star int he making. And perhaps we still do. But Amare is a stud. A no D stud...so really more of a STU...but he is a go to horse. I do agree they will be stuck as well if they make this trade in the rumorerd version...but they are still better off than we are.

I want no part of overpaying for Melo but if our role pushes the KNicks to do so? Yeah us.

Just have to hope they arent in a better position to get the NEXT guy to force his team to deal him to NY for Billups and whoever is laying around. Looking at the roster we would have...I cant see how we would get that opportunity.

[enetric]

Keep in mind, Brook is due for his big contract the same year that Howard, CP3, and all these other big time FAs are supposed to hit the market.

someone on the bulls board is trying to sell me on the good of this trade for jersey because it gives you guys an opportunity to add a second superstar in 2012. do you know if it's possible to sign said superstar and then go over the cap by re-signing lopez?

No we wouldnt. Your own free agents to be have cap holds on your cap space. Sign them and lose the cap space. Want their cap space...have to renounce their rights.

This deal is MELO...and WELCOME to your 2011-2015 Nets...give or take an MLE or two.

Expiring contracts year by year become the only remaining tade assets. See Lebron's Cavs for years. Most of the trades they could make were an expiring contract for a better player someone else didnt want to pay anymore.

[enetric]

LOL At Brook Lopez being an issue.

Lopez is a role player. A 7 footer who averages 5 rebounds has no value on the market. We can easily sign Lopez and big name FA in 2012.

Billups
MLE FA
Melo
Lopez
Howard

A guy can dream can't he?

Listen...dont talk out of your ass if you dont get the cap. What does Lopez signing have to do with his talent? As in, " We can easily sign Lopez and big name FA in 2012."

One has nothing to do with the other. Its math not talent evaluation.

[enetric]

i really cant believe you guys are criticizing this trade. When the Miami Heat so called gutted their team to get Shaq, some were complaining about the same thing. How we going to fill out the roster, why did we morgage our future. Its just dwayne wade, Shaq and an old Eddie Jones. Well Riley turned Eddie Jones for Antoine Walker, Jason Williams and James Posey.

It was SHAQ to go WITH WADE. Brook/Melo should not be confused with either. And we would be gutted on tradeable assets ONLY. We would still be capped out and stuck with unmoveable pieces around them. That's another big difference. We wouldnt have the ability to make the team better.

This isnt filling out the roster. This is seeing that its simply not worth it because the team wouldnt be a top 6 team in the horrid East and doesnt have the chips to improve. We dont have a Jones to turn into a Walker...and if we did and Walker, a Williams and Posey wouldnt make this team any better.

Look at the roster you just created for us. Tell me...who would you rather have? Denver right now...or the Nets you just created? How many years has Melo been in the league? How's that been working out so far?

Your logic is too simple. You are thinking...just add the star...that is a good start. And the thing is...it isnt. If you add the big contract star first and you are still sitting on the wrong contracts...and then you gave away all your tradeable assets you didnt add that star first? YOU ADDED HIM LAST as in the last major move you will make for the nect few years.

This is KG for Boston...but you know...without having Rondo, Allen Pierce and Perkins on the roser. Adding the Eddie House's of the world...ain gonna help this mess.

[Netaman]

I'm utterly shocked that we're finding a way to give up more now then we were 2 months ago. That said I will reserve judgement on this trade until after the new cab gets hammered out. We lose our cap space this offseason and next but we are not so far over the cap that a few changes in the cba might not be able to change things quickly. For example when the NHL went to a hard cap they had a one time buyout window because there were obviously teams who were already significantly over the new cap. If outlaw and petro come off the books, once chauncey hits free agency we would have a nice chunk of space.

As much as I hate giving up 4 first round picks I actually think I prefer keeping morrow and not taking back Hamilton to the la and hou picks so maybe this trade will end up being better. Here's to hoping there is top 10 protection on our first for this year.

[jeff1624]

Here's hoping Dolan makes the trade without Walsh's consent. That would set things in motion for Isiah to take over again.

[shrink]

Keep in mind, Brook is due for his big contract the same year that Howard, CP3, and all these other big time FAs are supposed to hit the market.

someone on the bulls board is trying to sell me on the good of this trade for jersey because it gives you guys an opportunity to add a second superstar in 2012.

You won't have the cap space to sign a superstar as a free agent. However, the way you get a second superstar is by using Billups contract in a sign-and-trade, if a guy like Chris Paul demands out and wants to play with Melo. However, after this trade robs you of a ton of assets, you'd have to hope Paul would only play for NJN, because everyone else would beat your offer.

[twix2500]

@eneric
First of all in getting Chancey Billups your are getting a better trading chip than Eddie Jones was. The Heat had a declining Shaq, Shaq was making 30 million a year, a still unknown Dwayne Wade. People were saying how Wade is not an elite player, that he was just a good undersize two guard playing point. And exactly what your saying now fans were saying then, young Kobe and Shaq is not Wade and old overpaid Shaq. Lopez still has a lot of potential and currently a hellava player now at a position that most teams can not match up at. Melo and Lopez window to win is much bigger than Shaq and Wade was. With Melo and Lopez you become an attractive place for free agents. Use the MLE, add quality veterans in free agency who can be potential trading chips.

With Lopez and Melo next year you have a great chance of being the 4th or 5th best team in the east. And maybe even third depending on what orlando do with their roster. Maybe your not a big Melo fan, because i get a sense that you are underestimating how good he is. Melo can easily get his game to be in the top 4 players in the league. If you dont make this deal, than its likely the Nets are going to be in the gutter for years to come gambling on draft picks.

[vincecarter4pres]

@eneric
First of all in getting Chancey Billups your are getting a better trading chip than Eddie Jones was. The Heat had a declining Shaq, Shaq was making 30 million a year, a still unknown Dwayne Wade. People were saying how Wade is not an elite player, that he was just a good undersize two guard playing point. And exactly what your saying now fans were saying then, young Kobe and Shaq is not Wade and old overpaid Shaq. Lopez still has a lot of potential and currently a hellava player now at a position that most teams can not match up at. Melo and Lopez window to win is much bigger than Shaq and Wade was. With Melo and Lopez you become an attractive place for free agents. Use the MLE, add quality veterans in free agency who can be potential trading chips.

With Lopez and Melo next year you have a great chance of being the 4th or 5th best team in the east. And maybe even third depending on what orlando do with their roster. Maybe your not a big Melo fan, because i get a sense that you are underestimating how good he is. Melo can easily get his game to be in the top 4 players in the league. If you dont make this deal, than its likely the Nets are going to be in the gutter for years to come gambling on draft picks.

First off, you're full of ****.

Wade was being raved about as a star coming into his own and although people were saying:

Kobe/Shaq>Wade/Shaq

Everyone was still saying Wade and Shaq was a deadly combo.


Second, just listen to what you're saying.

Yay! We can possibly be the 4th or 5th best team in the East! Yay!

The Heat were instantly considered the 2nd, if not best team in the East and a top 4 team in the league after they traded for Shaq and filled the roster out.

There is no comparison to be made here.

[twix2500]

First off, you're full of ****.

Wade was being raved about as a star coming into his own and although people were saying:

Kobe/Shaq>Wade/Shaq

Everyone was still saying Wade and Shaq was a deadly combo.


Second, just listen to what you're saying.

Yay! We can possibly be the 4th or 5th best team in the East! Yay!

The Heat were instantly considered the 2nd, if not best team in the East and a top 4 team in the league after they traded for Shaq and filled the roster out.

There is no comparison to be made here.

I not full of s##@, after wade rookie season no one thought he was going to be this good. Not even close, and we were still expecting him to develope into a point guard. Along with Rasual Butler the Heat signed Wesley Person and the talented but under achieving suspended Qyntel Woods in hopes he would show his potential and fill in as the starting small forward but that didnt happen. When the Heat couldnt find a solid small forward they decided to move Wade back to the 2 guard and Eddie Jones to the small forward position. We had no idea Damon Jones was going to be as good as he was for that year. And NOOOO ONE thought they were the best team in the east the year we got shaq.

Look at that Heat team in 2004/5, they filled that team will one year deals veteran journey men. Shaq 30 mill dollars man, Wade project point guard, Old overpaid veteran Eddie Jones, a surprise in undrafted free agent Udonis Haslem beating out Christian Leatner at power forward, some jouney man name Damon Jones at point. The Bench had old cut by the knicks Shannon Anderson, old Wesley Person, a clipper bust in Kenyon Dooling and Michael Doleac. Going into the season that summer the expecting starting lineup was PG: Dwayne Wade SG: Eddie Jones SF: Wesley Person PF: Christian Leatner C: Shaquille Oneal.

Everyone was saying how the Heat were stuck with that team and no tradable assets. Everyone was saying how Eddie Jones was untradable and were never going to beat the Pistons.

[twix2500]

Yay! We can possibly be the 4th or 5th best team in the East! Yay!

The Heat were instantly considered the 2nd, if not best team in the East and a top 4 team in the league after they traded for Shaq and filled the roster out.

There is no comparison to be made here.

How long you think Boston is going to be elite, this might be their last year playing at this level. Orlando still trying to figure out how to remake their roster. Fill the team out right might be number two in the East. Brook Lopez may make the next leap into being an elite player by now playing for something and playing with another elite player. Its crazy to rather be a lotto team than to add another legit star player.

[NyCeEvO]

I still think this is all hype just so that the Knicks would have to give up more. To me there's just no way that Proky is going to ok a deal now that requires us to give up more than we were going to give up before even though we already said we're done. Every team knows that as the deadline approaches, you give less to the team that needs to trade, not more. Even if you think King is a complete fool, I'm positive even he knows that. The Knicks are now ready to include Gallinari reportedly now that we have "upped the ante". I really think its all for show and we're just helping Denver get more out of the Knicks. And even though you might think that our FO should hate the Denver FO for all of the stalling they did before and blaming the publicity of the negotiations on us, I think it just goes to show how much more we dislike the Knicks over the Nuggets.

[twix2500]

@eneric

The same comments were being made, some were saying Riley ruined the Heat team by getting rid of its young players.

Here are some quotes from espn writer sam smith

Sure, Dwyane Wade looks like he'll become a heck of a player. But I haven't heard comparisons to Bryant quite yet. Even O'Neal would admit he's not quite what he was. Sure, there were extenuating circumstances this past season. There was Karl Malone and Gary Payton, who needed more shots than the retinue of role players who'd teamed with O'Neal and Bryant through three consecutive NBA championships. So O'Neal's scoring average hit a career low. He was very good in the playoffs, but not nearly as great as he'd been. He is no longer the kind of player to load a team on his back and carry it wherever he wants it to go.


The Heat will be much closer now. But for how long? O'Neal is 32, and he'll have to do much more now with Miami's team stripped down to accommodate the trade. It may take a few years to build it back up and add the pieces to complement O'Neal. But then will he be able to do enough? Will Wade even become Magic as O'Neal becomes Kareem?

[vincecarter4pres]

Sam Smith, lol...

[twix2500]

Sam Smith, lol...

I know right lol. I was trying to find all Mark Stien Shaq/Maimi Heat hate, but that was the first one that came up.

[deepblueday]

Whether or not the general perception was one of uncertainty as to whether or not Wade would ascend to superstar status does not justify this specific trade from the Net's perspective. Brook is not only not an elite player, he's not even on the cusp of becoming an elite player. He's below average to awful in every aspect of the game other than scoring. In order to become the kind of center that you can anchor a team around, as opposed to one that you're forced to compensate for, Brook would need to make astounding, pretty much unheard of improvements on the defensive end of the court. And he'd also need to learn how to pass out of a doubleteam. Is this possible? Sure, he's still young, and he has a solid mobility and a huge frame. But it's also extremely unlikely.