Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[DreamTeam09]

Wait did you guys forget about bayless?! cant we just go after the best sf there is in the draft ?

P.S: what is kyle irving comparison?!

-Its Kyrie.
-His comparison is more of a cp3 type of pg.
-Bayless is not a starting pg in the nba
-If we miss out on kyrie I think we will draft the best SF available

[DreamTeam09]

I've been saying this from the 1st thread but theres only really 4 players we should be looking at with our pick.

Raptor draft board.

#1 Kyrie irving +5 level of excitement
#2 Perry Jones +4 level of excitement.
#3 Terannce Jones +3.5 level of excitement
#4 Harrison Barnes +2 level of excitement.

1 pg and 3 sf

My sig is being sarcastic but this is my list...just switch the order between Barnes and TJones.

Howcome u have Barnes in front of TJones???

[fredericklove]

Ohh man get excited. 2 more weeks until March Madness... the month where draft stock is determined. Second rounders are easily bumped into Lotto picks and the other way around.

MARCHHHH MADDNESSSSSSSS

[TDotRep]

if we get the 2nd pick and kyrie is gone bc will draft perry.

[Dr Positivity]

Guys like Barnes, Perry and Terrence Jones, Sullinger, and Williams all could help us, I'm sure, but they're all sort of similar and don't really fill any of our needs as we're already stacked at the four, and don't at all give us what we really need at the 3, along DD, which is consistent D and a legit three point shot. (and of those guys, I'd want Williams, but I'm a bit concerned those gaudy stats are an aberration.)

Uh... disagree. First, they're not all sort of similar. Far from it. Barnes is a SG/SF who defends and can hit 3s at the next level, maybe a cross between Deng, Battier, Wes Johnson, something like that. Perry Jones is like Bosh mixed with Odom, great first step and handles giving him big mismatch potential at PF. Sullinger is like KLove, Boozer, Scola. Posts up, rebounds, smart as hell. Williams is like Michael Beasley but less of a wuss. These 4 guys are practically NOTHING alike. The closest are Perry and Derrick Williams

I mean hell, I'd take Chris Singleton from FSU over those guys, at this point, because while he may not have the upside of a Perry Jones, for example, he can certainly play good D, and does have range out to 3, shooting 37% on the year (though I know he can definitely be streaky as ****.)

This is the kind of thinking that crushes teams in drafts. Hey we need a center... Hoffa plays hard...

This team needs TALENT badly. Our goal is to find a player who's better than everyone on our team and then make the rest of the team around them. NOT to find a player who fits our crap Derozan, Davis, Bargnani, etc. core

Taking Singleton top 5 would be like spending a lotto pick on **** Julian Wright or Sonny Weems. I don't hate him, but he's clearly going to be an athletic defensive guy some teams throws 15mpg to.

[JN]

Ohh man get excited. 2 more weeks until March Madness... the month where draft stock is determined. Second rounders are easily bumped into Lotto picks and the other way around.

Draft stock is most determined in conference season and the conference tourneys -- January, February and early March. Just because casual fans follow NCAA more in the tourney does not mean the same for scouts.

Scouts have no ability to prepare or manage the schedule around the NCAA tournament like they do in the regular season when they can peg a matchup like Kansas and Texas, or BYU-SDST, or Kentucky-Florida well in advance. For example where will Baylor, UNC, Kentucky even play> - plus most first round games are against an opponent that is weaker then good conference opposition so it provides little scouting value. And half the teams are out after having played one meaningful game.

Top conference teams will have a handful of matchups as difficult as they have in the first weekend of the NCAA tourney, and you can schedule to see all the players you want.

[Double Helix]

I'm just going to repost this from the other thread since it was right near the end of the last thread anyway...

-----------------------------------


I think Terrence Jones has to be considered a top 6 lock at this point. He's young, he has a solid all around game and a competitiveness that I think scouts and GMs are going to like. All that said, I'm still having a hard time imagining him as an impact SF despite his strengths. His athleticism seems Jalen Rose-esque to me and I don't mean that in a good way.

I know people have thrown out the Lamar Odom comparison but Odom seems a lot lankier and freakish as a result. Here are some 6'7-6'9 SF types with solid rebounding ability. Maybe these names will give us a better idea of the kind of player Jones might be in the NBA.

- Caron Butler (less athleticism)
- Paul Pierce (Less of a one-on-one/iso creativity and a lower ceiling)
- Jamal Masburn (less passing and more shot blocking)
- Shawn Marion (less athleticism/ability to work without the ball/more ball reliant)
- Marvin Williams (more competitive and driven to stand out?)

Anybody else? Would anybody want a player like that playing alongside Demar Derozan if we ended up hitting some draft lottery bad luck and ended up selecting 5-7. Not exactly franchise-altering but probably a solid consolation prize if we don't get lucky with the ping pong balls.

I think he's an undersized PF in the NBA. At SF he'll have a size advantage but weak handles, shooting, etc. for a big man and will be a defensive liability. At PF he'll at least be faster and with more handles than opposing bigs. I'm not crazy about him as a prospect in general though. I would much rather have Derrick Williams who at least hits 3s and is more athletic

I don't see the PF in him at all actually. His handle doesn't seem any worse than say... Danny Granger's or Luol Deng's when they first entered the league. I think he's a SF with PF like instincts on the defensive end, which to me sounds kind of intriguing.

[darth_federer]

What type of player is he? Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress.com posted a series of comments on his Twitter account while watching a game last week, and his observations provide a good example of what people often say about Motiejunas.

Here are a few:

• “First thoughts on Donatas Motiejunas. Wow. Body looks amazing. So fluid. Could you possibly design a more prototypical basketball player? No.”

• “Donatas Motiejunas gets the ball in the post, looks like a fish swimming in the water spinning off his man and scoring elegantly. Impressive.”

• “Unfortunately I seem to have fallen on one of those games where Donatas Motiejunas would rather not be participating. Looks totally out of it.”

• “How bad is Donatas Motiejunas playing? Coach Repesa is being forced to use the corpse of Brian Skinner rather than subject us to his apathy.”

• “Donatas Motiejunas decided to come out of his nap momentarily to win the game for Benetton with a pair of gorgeous jump-hooks with either hand.”

• “That’s why talent still trumps everything for lots of NBA executives. Watch a highlight reel of his top plays and you might think he should go No. 1.”

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/ ... _poss.html

BC get er done

[Dr Positivity]

If Montie falls to 18 or something, I'd be down for trading up to get him

Top 5... lol god no

[Brinbe]

Guys like Barnes, Perry and Terrence Jones, Sullinger, and Williams all could help us, I'm sure, but they're all sort of similar and don't really fill any of our needs as we're already stacked at the four, and don't at all give us what we really need at the 3, along DD, which is consistent D and a legit three point shot. (and of those guys, I'd want Williams, but I'm a bit concerned those gaudy stats are an aberration.)

Uh... disagree. First, they're not all sort of similar. Far from it. Barnes is a SG/SF who defends and can hit 3s at the next level, maybe a cross between Deng, Battier, Wes Johnson, something like that. Perry Jones is like Bosh mixed with Odom, great first step and handles giving him big mismatch potential at PF. Sullinger is like KLove, Boozer, Scola. Posts up, rebounds, smart as hell. Williams is like Michael Beasley but less of a wuss. These 4 guys are practically NOTHING alike. The closest are Perry and Derrick Williams

I mean hell, I'd take Chris Singleton from FSU over those guys, at this point, because while he may not have the upside of a Perry Jones, for example, he can certainly play good D, and does have range out to 3, shooting 37% on the year (though I know he can definitely be streaky as ****.)

This is the kind of thinking that crushes teams in drafts. Hey we need a center... Hoffa plays hard...

This team needs TALENT badly. Our goal is to find a player who's better than everyone on our team and then make the rest of the team around them. NOT to find a player who fits our crap Derozan, Davis, Bargnani, etc. core

Taking Singleton top 5 would be like spending a lotto pick on **** Julian Wright or Sonny Weems. I don't hate him, but he's clearly going to be an athletic defensive guy some teams throws 15mpg to.

First of all, I didn't say they played alike, I said they don't really give us what we need, sorry if I didn't make that clearer. You don't need to give me the run-down. I've watched them multiple times, like we all have. And I'm saying, personally, I'm not locked down on any of them right now. I mentioned liking Williams already, and Terrence Jones (who has been mentioned many times in this thread already) is another guy I really like, and I wouldn't complain about it. But honestly, P. Jones just reminds me of Bosh, Barnes hasn't really impressed me at all, and although Sullinger is nice, we have bigger needs.

Frankly, none of them are good enough that that I'd not consider Jonas or Enes, that's all. And are you really comparing those guys to Hoffa? Because that's extremely foolish too. I wouldn't go away from drafting a C early just because Babs was a f'n moron. I mean Beans and Jefferson were drafted after Hoffa too, and they'd have certainly helped us.

Also, are any of these guys, aside from maybe, Kyrie, a slam-dunk franchise player and better than anyone on this team? I honestly don't think so, this is a weak-ass draft. So that point about, oh, this way of thinking is crushing teams, is moot, imo. And in that sense, I think your way is just as bad.

I mean, believe me, I'm not dumb. I know this core isn't nearly good enough to contend, and I want the best talent too, but we have to face reality and live with what we have now. Bargs/DD/Ed/Amir are our core, and they aren't going away overnight.

So unless we grab that first pick, I think we need to keep our options open and draft whilst keeping in mind what we currently lack (which is a franchise point, complementary swing for DeMar, and a long-term solution at C). So that's why I mentioned a Singleton, because he's someone that could help and could be had with a later pick, in conjunction with picking a C (or Irving) earlier.

Similarly, if we do go with a T. Jones or Williams early, Brandon Knight is someone else I'd want with the later pick.

Only thing that upsets me is, where did I say I'd take Singleton with a top five pick? When I said I'd take him over those other guys, I obviously meant with our non-lottery pick.

[raptor jesus]

Kawhi Leonard looks like a serviceable SF prospect. Active on both ends, great rebounder, good motor, expanding offensive game and play making abilities. If we acquire a mid first rounder, I'd take a long look at him.

[TheRealDeal]

^^1996 draft class minus Iverson, Peja, Ilgauskas, Dampier, D Fisher, Ben Wallace (not drafted)

This class wasn't supposed to be great yet it produced superstars who can score 81 points in a game, most valuable players, all-stars, world champions and role players.

There has never been a draft that didn't produce at least one great player. Some have produced multiple stars like in 1984 with Jordan, Stockton, Olajuwon & Barkley and 2003 w/ LeBron, Wade, Carmelo and Bosh.

Just because you like one guy doesn't mean you have it all figured out and have to trash the other prospects. There's a reason that some of these guys are near the top of mocks and you might not see it for a few years. It's called potential.

The way a player looks out on the court means a lot more to GM's than college stats. Some of you are ready to throw a guy out of the discussion after a couple bad games (or missed shots). Save your energy for something that wont make you look dumb in a few weeks or years.

[Alfred]

The 2000 draft didn't produce a great player.

[Yeezus_]

The 2000 draft didn't produce a great player.

Wow I didn't realize how bad that draft class was until I googled it.

[CunningLinguist]

Someone raised Kemba Walker as a top five pick in the prior thread.

No way. He is averaging 21 points a game in 15 Big East Games, but shooting 39%. Let me repeat that - 39%.

If a player who is considered to have ability to score as a primary skill, cannot create efficient looks at the NCAA level I do not want... at least not in the top ten.

Have you been watching his games? He's being double and triple teamed. He will have no trouble creating his shot and scoring efficiently at the NBA level, where the opposing teams won't be able to concentrate all their efforts in stopping him.

[CunningLinguist]

The Raptors need to look at the following 3 player with their Pick.

1) Kyrie Irving - Everyone knows the Raps need a PG and Kyrie will be a franchise type of PG.
2) Enes Kanter - Raps need a defensive rebounding center and I don't see Bargnani ever avg more than 7 rebounds a game. Kaner/Davis front line would be amazing in the future.
3) Harrison Barnes - Believe it or not, I think being at NC is hurting Barnes and if he ever went to a program such as Kentucy he would be putting up way better numbers. A Derozan/Barnes wing combo would be amazing in the future. Remember Derozan didn't have a great start in his freshman season at USC as well.

If you expect Kanter to be a defensive, shotblocking force, you're going to have a rude awakening. He can't jump over a phonebook.

[CunningLinguist]

I've been saying this from the 1st thread but theres only really 4 players we should be looking at with our pick.

Raptor draft board.

#1 Kyrie irving +5 level of excitement
#2 Perry Jones +4 level of excitement.
#3 Terannce Jones +3.5 level of excitement
#4 Harrison Barnes +2 level of excitement.

1 pg and 3 sf

Perry Jones is not a small forward, no matter how much you may want him to be one.

[CunningLinguist]

I'm just going to repost this from the other thread since it was right near the end of the last thread anyway...

-----------------------------------


I think Terrence Jones has to be considered a top 6 lock at this point. He's young, he has a solid all around game and a competitiveness that I think scouts and GMs are going to like. All that said, I'm still having a hard time imagining him as an impact SF despite his strengths. His athleticism seems Jalen Rose-esque to me and I don't mean that in a good way.

I know people have thrown out the Lamar Odom comparison but Odom seems a lot lankier and freakish as a result. Here are some 6'7-6'9 SF types with solid rebounding ability. Maybe these names will give us a better idea of the kind of player Jones might be in the NBA.


- Caron Butler (less athleticism)
- Paul Pierce (Less of a one-on-one/iso creativity and a lower ceiling)
- Jamal Masburn (less passing and more shot blocking)
- Shawn Marion (less athleticism/ability to work without the ball/more ball reliant)
- Marvin Williams (more competitive and driven to stand out?)

Anybody else? Would anybody want a player like that playing alongside Demar Derozan if we ended up hitting some draft lottery bad luck and ended up selecting 5-7. Not exactly franchise-altering but probably a solid consolation prize if we don't get lucky with the ping pong balls.

I think he's an undersized PF in the NBA. At SF he'll have a size advantage but weak handles, shooting, etc. for a big man and will be a defensive liability. At PF he'll at least be faster and with more handles than opposing bigs. I'm not crazy about him as a prospect in general though. I would much rather have Derrick Williams who at least hits 3s and is more athletic

You criticize Terrence Jones' handles and then state you'd rather have Derrick Williams, whose ball handling is far inferior.

[TheRealDeal]

The 2000 draft didn't produce a great player.

The 2000 draft is unquestionably the worst in recent history and arguably the worst of all time. It still produced a couple of guys who made the ASG (Magloire & K-Mart), a 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford), borderline all-stars Hedo & Michael Redd as well as solid role players in Mo-Pete, Mike Miller and Pryz.

The lockout was looming in 1998 when VC, Jamison, Dirk, Paul Pierce, Mike Bibby and white chocolate entered the draft. In 1999 Brand, Francis, Baron, Odom, Rip Hamilton, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Ron Artest, Kirilenko and Manu all entered the league under the new CBA.

In 2001 Pau, Joe Johnson, Z-Randolph, J-Rich, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Gilbert, Okur, Richard Jefferson and Shane Battier were selected. It looks like the 2000 class was very rare and it was somewhat of a fluke that there were no great players selected.

[JN]

Someone raised Kemba Walker as a top five pick in the prior thread.

No way. He is averaging 21 points a game in 15 Big East Games, but shooting 39%. Let me repeat that - 39%.

If a player who is considered to have ability to score as a primary skill, cannot create efficient looks at the NCAA level I do not want... at least not in the top ten.

Have you been watching his games? He's being double and triple teamed? He will have no trouble creating his shot and scoring efficiently at the NBA level, where the opposing teams won't be able to concentrate all their efforts in stopping him.

I have seen at least 15 UConn games this year. Most top scorers in the NCAA face junk defences. You find ways in the NCAA to still score rather efficiently simply due to your increased talent level.

If Kemba was not trying to force the issue he would be a 15-18 ppg guy who would be projected outside the lotto.