Official Andre Iguodala Trade Discussion and Rumors Thread

[sixerswillrule]

[blackham9258]

Would you consider AK , and Fesenko (7'2" defensive stopper and plug the middle kind of guy) for Iggy/Kapono and cap space for you?

[Foshan]

no

[Juannydawkins]

. Maybe it is really how much of what Iguodalal can do other than scoring can Turner and Jrue pick up in his absence??

exactly, Turner will be better then Iggy. And he will be able to if not already be able to defend as well.

I have a few questions for you. I think that I am understanding more and more your point of view here. And not just the outcomes you want based on your point of view. I'm talking about the point of view itself.


1) I know you think he's overpaid. But do you think that the sixers, even paying him what they pay him (afterall it's not your money) - can be a contender with him if we had a go-to scorer and a defensive center?

My argument for the reason why you can: Look at the salary of the contenders. It's not under the cap.

2) Follow up- the team lacks a go - to scorer. But wouldn't it make sense to trade some unused parts for a go-to scorer, rather than someone who contributes so greatly in so many ways? Just because he's not a go-to scorer doesn't mean he is not a valuable piece. He has, himself, won games on the defensive end this year. That's quite the feit. If you had someone winning games on the defensive end playing alongside someone winning games on the offensive end, wouldn't that be good?

2) Do you see the value that defense brings to a team, in general?

One great argument for keeping him: with Iguodala, we are already one of the best defenses in the league. With a defensive center, we'd be even better. I know the point is to outscore the oponent - so that happens in two ways, score more, them less.


3) Do you see the value that his driving to the lane and kicking out to someone hitting shots would have for the team (how good are he and meeks when Meeks hits his shot? What if we had a more consistent meeks, aka your boy Kevin Martin)?

4) Do you see his leadership with the younger guys?


5) Do you really think that Turner's defense is consistently as good as Iggy's is NOW? He's not even close to as strong as iggy, maybe he can move his feet, but he can be bullied too. Do you really think Turner WILL become an elite defender. (not could, because the sky could fall) Do you think he WILL become an elite defender, and what leads you to believe that?



See, if I understand you - I think you'd love for us to be the Phoenix Suns. Who cares about defense, just keep putting the ball in the hole. It's an exciting game, but not one that yields championships. These Sixers are ALMOST at a point that they could beat anyone.

If Meeks develops consistency. (he's got the talent). If Hawes develops consistency (eh, arguable).

I mean, we're right there dude. And you're trying to get rid of the best player because you think he makes too much money.

Another thing, and I'm not sure if you're aware of this : You repeat yourself so often that it discredits your argument. You also don't dig in enough to ground your points of view most times. And it's very annoying. Imagine being at dinner with your family and everyone's talking about their day, and then your little brother just keeps saying "I hate paper napkins" over and over and over and over again. It disrupts the flow eventually - and isn't very receptive to the feelings of everyone else. It may be in your best interest to evaluate your communication style.

[ZzAzZ]

Bravo.

Too bad it was all for nothing.

[Mik317]

Post of the year

[sixerswillrule]

Bravo.

Too bad it was all for nothing.

Yep. That logic won't fare well.

[ZzAzZ]

Actually, just been thinking because of this post and all of the talk about Iguodala being overpayed and I'm not so sure that he is even close (this year). If you beat the Nuggets and shut down Carmelo (which he did), who was more valuable that game, Iguodala or Carmelo? Iguodala has been becoming a wrecking ball for opposing scorers, who usually get paid well more than him. He just recently held Joe Johnson (a max player) to 6 points and I think 5 TO's (maybe 5 fouls, can't remember off the top of my head). Who was worth more money that night?

I don't even know if I fully believe it, it's just something I've been pondering but if he can pretty much take away other teams highest paid players (scorers obviously), doesn't that make him worth more than them?

Edit: Forgot about the last game against the Rockets which is a perfect example. You hold Kevin Martin to 3-12 for 9 points while putting up a triple double (which obviously the triple double isn't going to happen often but still), for that game I might go as far as to say (going by a game by game basis) that he was indeed underpayed.

[corwin]

It seems most of the criticisms of Iguodala (SJSF included) come down to not so much what he offers but what he makes. That is a legitimate criticism because we have an ownership that is not interested in paying the LT. The salaries that Brand & AI2 make have to be considered when putting a team on the floor. I know the team pays lip services to going over the LT if we are a legitimate contender but there is little reason to believe that. We've traded/exchanged draft picks over the years to get under the LT level. Wouldn't Fesenko be a help on this team rather than the useless Herbert Hill that we had to take when picks were exchanged to get Philly under the LT? On other occasions, management has refused to complete the team (does anyone remember James Thomas, Shavlik Randolph, & Deng Gai?) because of money. Next year they'll be talking about not extending Thad (a core player to most of us) for a draft pick or some other crap simply to save money. Comcast cares about the payroll & not paying the LT. So if you consider the fact that they will not pay the LT as a given fact, then you can't improve this team without either moving AI2 or Brand & criticism of his salary has to be a factor in evaluating his worth to the team.

[sixerswillrule]

It seems most of the criticisms of Iguodala (SJSF included) come down to not so much what he offers but what he makes.

That's easy to say when much of what he offers is ignored. And that's not even true considering suggested trades such as Iguodala for Rashard Lewis...

[Juannydawkins]

Actually, just been thinking because of this post and all of the talk about Iguodala being overpayed and I'm not so sure that he is even close (this year). If you beat the Nuggets and shut down Carmelo (which he did), who was more valuable that game, Iguodala or Carmelo? Iguodala has been becoming a wrecking ball for opposing scorers, who usually get paid well more than him. He just recently held Joe Johnson (a max player) to 6 points and I think 5 TO's (maybe 5 fouls, can't remember off the top of my head). Who was worth more money that night?

True. That.

[Juannydawkins]

I know the team pays lip services to going over the LT if we are a legitimate contender but there is little reason to believe that.

Sounds like we need a reporter to bring some accountability on up to the management before it's too late - push them to make a commitment, and do so with the perfect question.

"you have stated your commitment to building a championship team, and have stated that you would go over the luxury tax if it meant building a contender. Does that mean that fans should lose faith in your ability to tell the truth and have a plan for a contender if you do something like don't re-sign Thad because of the luxury tax, or don't go out and actively pursue one of our missing pieces, like a stud shooting guard or center in the next year or two?"

[corwin]

They've been getting a free ride since Croce left. Couldn't agree with you more.

[tgo2223]

Actually, just been thinking because of this post and all of the talk about Iguodala being overpayed and I'm not so sure that he is even close (this year). If you beat the Nuggets and shut down Carmelo (which he did), who was more valuable that game, Iguodala or Carmelo? Iguodala has been becoming a wrecking ball for opposing scorers, who usually get paid well more than him. He just recently held Joe Johnson (a max player) to 6 points and I think 5 TO's (maybe 5 fouls, can't remember off the top of my head). Who was worth more money that night?

I don't even know if I fully believe it, it's just something I've been pondering but if he can pretty much take away other teams highest paid players (scorers obviously), doesn't that make him worth more than them?

Edit: Forgot about the last game against the Rockets which is a perfect example. You hold Kevin Martin to 3-12 for 9 points while putting up a triple double (which obviously the triple double isn't going to happen often but still), for that game I might go as far as to say (going by a game by game basis) that he was indeed underpayed.

I agree with what your saying for the most part but a couple of things are being over looked.

1st thing is it seems like Rudy Gay had his way with iggy the last game and a half when they faced each other.

The second thing is very crucial IMHO. Its been more than a few occasions that Iggy did NOT make a key defensive stop in the final minute or the guts of the game. The Cartier Martain 3 (where he flopped and let him get a clean look), the 4pt play he gave up to JRich(where he should have just let him shoot and he does the worst thing possible by fouling) to the 1st game against the grizz when we need a critical stop and Rudy Gay drove baseline on him and dunked Iggy through the rim. Why the hell didnt Iggy play him to his left and against the baseline as the extra defender. He played him to his right?!? WHY?

Theres also been too many clutch situations on the other end where he came up short. And am i the only on the notices Iggy sucks when shooting off the dribble or fades away but actually is a pretty good shooter when he has a set shot? Why dont he realize that after being in the league for so long?

Im not a Iggy basher. I give credit where credit is due and hes been playing really well lately IMO. His D for the most part has been great and he doesnt shoot off the dribble to much any more. Im still in favor of trading him but im not as opposed to keeping him as i was earlier this season.

[sixerswillrule]

And am i the only on the notices Iggy sucks when shooting off the dribble or fades away but actually is a pretty good shooter when he has a set shot? Why dont he realize that after being in the league for so long?

I think most realize that he should be keeping off the dribble shots to a minimum(he's gotten better with this lately), but not as many are aware that he is solid when spotting up. But those opportunities are a result of his teammates setting him up for open looks. He can't take them if he doesn't get them. Obviously the more the ball in his hands where he is doing the creating, the less chances he'll have for those kinds of shots. It's all about finding the right combination.

[dond]

I also have softened on trading Igoudala. It is only when I see him starting to get "frisky" out there again with his shooting that I revert back to the "trade him" position.

If he could make a final choice and decide that he will never take a shot off the dribble unless it is a dunk, I would be "all in" with keeping him. He might even make all-star status that way. If coach Collins could convince him of that it would be a huge step for both of them.

The problem is that Igoudala has had a taste of scoring and he likes it. It might be difficult to cure him of that now.

[tgo2223]

That would be nice but I think he still has to attempt a couple shots fading or off the dribble during the game. Sometimes hes force into them, but even when hes not i dont mind a couple. But when im watching a game and thats what hes throwing up i get pissed

[tgo2223]

Another thing that bothers me with him are those popcorn muscles. I cant figure for the life of me why he makes a power move to the basket just to get into position to draw a foul or create contact and instead he gets finesse and tries this hard ass lay up. GO UP STRONG IGGY. He has the skill and body to do so

[Juannydawkins]

Another thing that bothers me with him are those popcorn muscles. I cant figure for the life of me why he makes a power move to the basket just to get into position to draw a foul or create contact and instead he gets finesse and tries this hard ass lay up. GO UP STRONG IGGY. He has the skill and body to do so

my neighbor used to be an assistant coach for the sixers under Mo Cheeks, and he said that they worked w/ Iggy on going and finishing strong, but I think it's muscle memory to some extent. Nothing that can't be cured with more work though, I'd bet.

[DirtyDez]

Vince Carter + PHX 1st (unprotected) for Iggy + Kopono (or Songalia)...