Hawks shopping Marvin

geeman · Post #1 » by **geeman** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:22 pm

Marvin Williams, F, Atlanta Hawks: Two NBA general managers said the Hawks are shopping Williams. Williams, however, has $16.8 million guaranteed through next season and a team option of $8.8 million for the 2012-13 season. Yahoo! Sports

td00 · Post #2 » by **td00** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:27 pm

We probably end up taking back a bad contract in return.

See if Houston will give us Battier and Brooks and return some combination that includes Marvin. Perhaps Teague?

Geaux_Hawks · Post #3 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:40 pm

Battier and Brooks would be nice but I think Marvin can net a Center

myrak433 · Post #4 » by **myrak433** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:57 pm

which center do you think he could net?

Geaux_Hawks · Post #5 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:22 pm

Possibly Sessions and Varejao for Marvin and Teague or Maybe Philly sends Lou Willliams and Hawes for Marvin,Teague & a 2 pick....I like Battier and Brooks though,Battier is a lock down defender.

myrak433 · Post #6 » by **myrak433** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:37 pm

we do need a center though, we have had the same problem for the last six years. not point and not center. two trades we could make one with LAC Marvin and ZAZA for Kaman

and Teague and/or Jordan, Evans for Sessions and Anthony Parker if Parker is to much money then switch him out with Joey Graham. we also open up a roster spot with these trades could just get one more big, someone like Earl Barron or I am sure someone will be cut after the trade deadline. new lineup

Sessions/Bibby
JJ/JC1
Josh/Parker or Graham
Horford/Powell
Kaman/Collins

geeman · Post #7 » by **geeman** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:05 pm

Is Varejao out for the year? If not, I do that trade Now!

evildallas · Post #8 » by **evildallas** » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:36 pm

geeman wrote:Is Varejao out for the year? If not, I do that trade Now!

Yep, he's out for the year with ankle surgery.

Harry10 · Post #9 » by **Harry10** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:58 am

td00 wrote:We probably end up taking back a bad contract in return.

See if Houston will give us Battier and Brooks and return some combination that includes Marvin. Perhaps Teague?

Marvin and Zaza for Battier and Brooks..... i wouldn't be able to say YES fast enough!

Geaux_Hawks · Post #10 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:51 pm

What about possibly Buddinger in the deal as well?!?!?

ocellatus921 · Post #11 » by **ocellatus921** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:26 pm

What about Prince, T-mac & 2011 2nd for Williams, Evans & 2011 1st top 20 protected????

Post #12 » by **Jamaaliver** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:30 pm

Does anyone else get the sense Marvin is going to really develop into a solid 20 ppg player on a lesser team with a better point guard? The talent has always been there, it's more the drive and resolve he's missing.

geeman · Post #13 » by **geeman** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:59 pm

I like Marvin and yes He's starvin here in Atlanta and would really do well somewhere else.

td00 · Post #14 » by **td00** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:35 pm

Let me make sure I am hearing this right...

Are you guys actually saying we aren't using Marvin to his full ability? Really?

You are seeing something in Marvin, a guy who is ranked last in the league as a starting SF?

I see he has some decent 11/7 games, but I don't think Marvin can give you more than that. And that is what is costing you 40M in your salary structure.

I would think you should get more production for those salary numbers?

Harry10 · Post #15 » by **Harry10** » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:40 pm

ocellatus921 wrote:What about Prince, T-mac & 2011 2nd for Williams, Evans & 2011 1st top 20 protected????

i'm okay with it, but i'm not sure if Detroit would take it.

Post #16 » by **dms269** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:01 am

td00 wrote:Let me make sure I am hearing this right...

Are you guys actually saying we aren't using Marvin to his full ability? Really?

You are seeing something in Marvin, a guy who is ranked last in the league as a starting SF?

I see he has some decent 11/7 games, but I don't think Marvin can give you more than that. And that is what is costing you 40M in your salary structure.

I would think you should get more production for those salary numbers?

Of course he should get more production, but you have to remember that he is 6th option on offense on the team and is often the 5th guy on his unit. If you give him more production you are having to take it away from someone else.

He has had some good games when other guys go down with injuries.

evildallas · Post #17 » by **evildallas** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:15 am

td00 wrote:Let me make sure I am hearing this right...

Are you guys actually saying we aren't using Marvin to his full ability? Really?

You are seeing something in Marvin, a guy who is ranked last in the league as a starting SF?

I see he has some decent 11/7 games, but I don't think Marvin can give you more than that. And that is what is costing you 40M in your salary structure.

I would think you should get more production for those salary numbers?

I think the argument is not that we're using Marvin wrong per se, but rather he needs a different system with different personnel to thrive. I don't think his role is large enough to allow him to earn his full salary, but I am quick to point out that Marvin hasn't shown the desire to do or be more. I would never advocate trading someone else like Josh to get a PG and trusting a bigger role to Marvin. Marvin isn't going to change his spots here. He needs a new address to reinvent himself (if he even cares to). He'd have greater trade value if he showed the desire to play a bigger role and sowed the seeds of hope in other GMs.

Post #18 » by **HMFFL** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:08 am

I'm all for moving Marvin just for cap space, so we can retain Jamal Crawford, and settling for a cheap role player at the 3 seems to be the best move.

Harry10 · Post #19 » by **Harry10** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:04 am

Dalembert and Thompson for Marvin, Zaza, and Teague

D21 · Post #20 » by **D21** » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:20 am

HMFFL wrote:I'm all for moving Marvin just for cap space, so we can retain Jamal Crawford, and settling for a cheap role player at the 3 seems to be the best move.

That's right, but that also mean that we would keep the same team, except a new SF instead of Marvin, and one that certainly won't be better than him, due to the price, and the fact that he won't get more option than Marvin gets.

So we would be on the same level or nearly.

If we had owners wanting spend for win more games, we should trade Crawford now and not let him expire.
If they don't want to pay LT, I hope there will be some changes, and not trying to keep the same team.

And more important IMO : if we trade Marvin for cap space, we would be at 57M this summer, so if the LT threshold stay around 70M, it makes almost 13M under the threshold, and you can be sure that Crawford agent will makes all he can do to get a big contract.
ASG once again will be terrified when they will realize that one of their FA can leave for nothing, and will give him all he wants, like they did with Joe, instead of for example signing a MLE palyer first, then have only 7-8M for Crawford. It also can't happen like that, since MLE player are signed after bigger contracts.

I simply don't want to see it. They will think that fans will be happy to keep Crawford.

What is shocking me is that we can all agree on the fact that Marvin can be replace by a lower salary, and get the same impact, but that lots of people refuse to see that Murray gave us the same impact than Crawford for one tenth of his salary.

Crawford is better, he can bring more, but we are the same team.
Time to realize we need to use him to get a PG or a C.
We can also trade both, to avoid paying LT next year, but with a new player. IF we trade both for a 13M player, we are under the LT next season.

If we don't trade Crawford, than there is no point in my eyes to trade Marvin for cap space, unless we also let Crawford walk away this summer.
We would at least get flexibility , with possibility of using the full MLE on a player, then the BAE, then minimal contracts to fill the roster.

I'm fed up with this stagnant situation and level, while we have a core of good level who just need owners who want to spend to win.
I already said that we could have build like SAS or DET, and stay under LT, but it need some sense, which start by not giving a big MAx contract to a player just because you have enough money under the LT to do it. And now they could do the same thing with Crawford.

It's what they do, because it gives the possibility to say "hay, we did what to were able to do".
They have enough under the LT to give Joe the Max ? Yes so they did, even it could have cost us Horford (if he wanted more money than what he got, which is exactly the max they could give while staying under the LT, and not the Max he could get)
Thanks Horford to accept it.

The last thing I want is to see Crawford using this and eating all we have under the LT, and it start by not trading Marvin for expiring, or trade both Marvin and Crawford, or trade Marvin but leave Crawford walk away.

Maybe just speaking with my heart, tired of this owners.