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Our PF Situation

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Starkiller
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Our PF Situation 

Post#1 » by Starkiller » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:38 pm

So I was thinking about it, and the more he plays, the better Tyler gets. I'm hoping and expecting he may be able to turn into a David Lee, slightly less stat padding, but way more defense. Someone on here brings up, we are getting something like 15ppg/12rpg from the combo of Tyler and Josh. That's about as good as we could hope to get from any PF we could get (Jeff Green, David West, Josh Smith [highly unlikely]), so do we really need to look for one? I'm just wondering what we could really do to upgrade that. I suppose the most simple answer is that if we get a guy who averages something like 15/10 that's even better, cause they we get 30ppg/22rpg from the PF position which would be near tops in the league I'd think. Just a curious discussion I was thinking about the other day.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#2 » by Indy4Life » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:20 pm

I think we could upgrade at the 4 spot. A starter, who can rebound and defend along with hitting a 15-20foot jumper would be ideal.

A young Jermaine Oneal would fit the bill, but not somone who needs the ball in their hands to be effective.

I like McBob, but feel this is an area where we could improve.

Another area I would like to imporve is a 2 guard that can handle the ball (penetrate and pass) when team trap DC at the top. George and Granger and Dunleavy are all very pedestrian at taking quicker defenders to the basket and making something happen. We just don't have that person that we can give the ball to in crunch time that makes everyone else around him better.

These would both be subtle improvements as I don't think we are that far away from having an extremely competitive squad.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#3 » by Wizop » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:17 pm

the rotation player that needs to be replaced is Jeff Foster. we need a young backup center and if he can play some power forward too so much the better. otherwise I'm in no hurry to lose Josh or sit Tyler.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#4 » by PR07 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:47 pm

Wizop wrote:the rotation player that needs to be replaced is Mike Dunleavy. we need a young backup center and if he can play some power forward too so much the better. otherwise I'm in no hurry to lose Josh or sit Tyler.


Fixed :) .

I've been really impressed with Hansbrough. In what is essentially his rookie season, he looks very good. While I still think it's too early to call him the long-term answer at PF, he should at least be in the discussion. At the very least, he should be an excellent first big man off the bench for years to come.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#5 » by jcodbf2 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:13 am

The Pacers might give Tyler a shot at starter in the future to see what he can do in a 30-35 minute role. Thats most likely a 15 and 7 average I would guess ( may get better at rebounding ).

Its a tough choice. Give a guy you already have a chance or go out and get a guy that is already doing 20+/8+..

I think a capable starter is an important thing because that player can be another guy to feed the ball to late in games.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#6 » by Solid » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:30 am

When you look at the alternatives for acquiring a good PF e.g. Milsap or Favors for Granger the sweet alternative of coaxing a free agent is awesome.
West or Nene.
Get one of these guys to see himself starting between Hibbert and Granger and... grab one more youngster with lots of po in the draft and we're golden.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#7 » by 8305 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:00 am

I'm not convinced power forward is our biggest weakness. Could we upgrade? Absolutely, but at what cost? Are you that much better if you move Granger for a Milsap, Favors or Love than if you keep Granger and live with the Hansbrough, McRoberts tandem. What will a team like Indiana have to pay a Green, West or Nene in free agency? Over pay the free agent and you are right back in salary cap hell.

I think an case can be made for Hansbrough and McRoberts looking more like a long term answer than Collison and Price. A solid veteran point guard would do more for this team this season than any other tweek type move I can visualize. Just so there's no confusion I don't consider TJ a solid veteran pg.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#8 » by Miller4ever » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:11 am

TJ Ford is the best headband-wearing Pacer.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#9 » by Starkiller » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:25 pm

8305 wrote:I'm not convinced power forward is our biggest weakness. Could we upgrade? Absolutely, but at what cost? Are you that much better if you move Granger for a Milsap, Favors or Love than if you keep Granger and live with the Hansbrough, McRoberts tandem. What will a team like Indiana have to pay a Green, West or Nene in free agency? Over pay the free agent and you are right back in salary cap hell.

I think an case can be made for Hansbrough and McRoberts looking more like a long term answer than Collison and Price. A solid veteran point guard would do more for this team this season than any other tweek type move I can visualize. Just so there's no confusion I don't consider TJ a solid veteran pg.


That's another thing I was thinking, with Tyler and Josh playing like this, I really have no desire to trade Danny to acquire a PF. So many deals in the trades section have us dealing Danny for nothing more than prospects and picks, which is what we don't need, especially for Danny. I'd rather go out and spend the money on a FA instead of move Danny. If we move Danny, PG moves to SF, then we have a hole at SG. I just think moving Danny for anything at this point is a lateral move and won't help us get any better.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#10 » by writerman » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:10 am

Between Josh and Tyler we're getting good defense and more than respectable numbers. Why this fixation by some people here on wanting those numbers to come from one body? I think we're solid platooning at PF, with the additional advantage of having fresh legs we wouldn't have with just one 38 mpg starter. What we REALLY need is a decent backup center.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#11 » by Draft Master J » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:48 am

writerman, I think it comes down to standards.

The power forward position, as it stands now, is solid. I don't doubt that. The question is, though, why settle for "solid" when there are legitimate All-Star caliber performers like Zach Randolph or David West available that would upgrade the position to excellent?

If we want to take the next step up the NBA ladder, we need more talent (we've improved dramatically in this area over since the 2008 draft). Solid just isn't good enough. If we have the opportunity to upgrade any position, especially PF or SG (our two weakest positions, in my opinion), we need to do it.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#12 » by Wizop » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:53 am

jcodbf2 wrote:The Pacers might give Tyler a shot at starter in the future


not in the short term. it's a rotation thing. Vogel likes Josh playing with Roy and Tyler playing with Jeff to get a scorer on each unit. Roy and Tyler are the scorers. Jeff and Josh are the defenders.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#13 » by writerman » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:32 pm

Draft Master J wrote:writerman, I think it comes down to standards.

The power forward position, as it stands now, is solid. I don't doubt that. The question is, though, why settle for "solid" when there are legitimate All-Star caliber performers like Zach Randolph or David West available that would upgrade the position to excellent?

If we want to take the next step up the NBA ladder, we need more talent (we've improved dramatically in this area over since the 2008 draft). Solid just isn't good enough. If we have the opportunity to upgrade any position, especially PF or SG (our two weakest positions, in my opinion), we need to do it.


The reason I think solid at PF is good enough is because I think we have budding stars at other positions--the five (Hibbert) the three (George) and maybe the one (Collison.) No team I can think of ever had a starting unit that wasn't just "solid" at one or even two of it's positions.

Randolph...yeah. he's a great talent. But doesn't he have a rep as being a problem child? We've been there-done that here, and it really cost us. As for West, I'd not convinced he'd give us much if any more than what we've got. If through some insane, impossible chance we could get someone like Blake Griffin, that's one thing--but IMO the guys you're suggesting don't offer enough of an improved upside to be worth the distraction of integrating yet another newbie into a team that's starting to build a nice chemistry, especially since IMO we don't yet fully know what we've got in Josh and especially in Tyler.

re SG--maybe I'm alone in this, but I like Rush. There's no doubt he's got the talent, and I'm not ready to give up on him yet. People tend to underrate the fact that he plays really good defense. He just needs to harness that great talent he has shown flashes of on offense.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#14 » by Scoot McGroot » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:43 pm

writerman wrote:Between Josh and Tyler we're getting good defense and more than respectable numbers. Why this fixation by some people here on wanting those numbers to come from one body? I think we're solid platooning at PF, with the additional advantage of having fresh legs we wouldn't have with just one 38 mpg starter. What we REALLY need is a decent backup center.


I think the belief is that if you can get what Josh and Tyler put up in 48 minutes out of one PF that would put it up in 34-38 minutes a night, then any production you get out of Tyler or Josh those other 14-10 minutes a night is pure gravy. That's a decided improvement on the court.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#15 » by Solid » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:41 pm

Don't undervalue what a guy like West can do.
A real good mid-range shot gives Collison one more guy to throw it too. All the sudden he is clearly not a top option and can focus on passing and D.
Also it makes it impossible to involve their 4 in a double team. I believe both Hibbert and Granger would find themselves much more open inside and out with West able to pop for twenty +.

Nene also brings alot!
Solidify the post D. Improved rebounding. More easy put backs.

Both guys bring great veteran leadership to our youngsters.

I so hope we can land either one.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#16 » by Boneman2 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:40 pm

No matter the position, we need more post scoring to balance out our roster. Relying solely on Roy to provide all of our post offense is not enough.

I'd like to have the best low-post threat we could get. With all the talk of West being 30 y.o. it is easy to overlook that Zach will be 30 in July. These are the two guys I believe we should pursue. The good part is that Posey's expiring next offseason should cover it. We tap into this years cap-space and instantly get it back at seasons end. Plenty of money left for Hibb and Collison if they prove worthy.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#17 » by Solid » Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Zach may bring more points than the other alternatives but he will give up more points too. And of course, we'll all hold our breath waiting for some off-court nonsense from him.
We have a lot of young impressionable guys. I wouldn't underestimate the locker room influence of any one coming in right now.
I'd pay extra, or take a little less production to maintain a stable and positive environment.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#18 » by Wizop » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:17 am

I have no interest in bringing in 30 year olds with starter talent at any position. we can bring in 30 year olds to be supporting actors to our young leading me, but I don't want high priced leading men at the end of their peaks. A Bryon Scott or a Posey is fine maybe even a Chris Mullin. I do not see West or Zach ready to assume that senior role playing leader role though.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#19 » by jowglenn » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:49 pm

we are getting something like 15ppg/12rpg from the combo of Tyler and Josh....... I suppose the most simple answer is that if we get a guy who averages something like 15/10 that's even better, cause they we get 30ppg/22rpg from the PF position which would be near tops in the league I'd think. Just a curious discussion I was thinking about the other day.


Umm, it wouldn't work quite like that, because you wouldn't get the 15/12 from mcbobs/hans, because they'd be playing far fewer minutes, now that the starter guy is taking 34 per game.

I mean, if it worked like that, then we'd just need to add 3 15/10 PFs, and suddenly we'd be getting like 60/42 from our PF position! Unstoppable!

The point is, that's actually pretty weak production from a 2-man combo at PF. Get a real guy in there doing 16/10 in 34 mpg, then give tyler the other 14, and he gets, say, 7/3, you're already at 23/13, which is better. And frees up mcbobs for minutes at C, i guess.

I think David West would be great here.
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Re: Our PF Situation 

Post#20 » by Wizop » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:52 pm

if McBob had shown an ability to play 5, do you think Solo would have played all year?
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