Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[CunningLinguist]

Have you been watching his games? He's being double and triple teamed? He will have no trouble creating his shot and scoring efficiently at the NBA level, where the opposing teams won't be able to concentrate all their efforts in stopping him.[/quote]

I have seen at least 15 UConn games this year. Most top scorers in the NCAA face junk defences. You find ways in the NCAA to still score rather efficiently simply due to your increased talent level.

If Kemba was not trying to force the issue he would be a 15-18 ppg guy who would be projected outside the lotto.[/quote]

He's been creating shots, he just went through a stretch where they weren't falling. I think he has tired legs because he's been playing a lot of minutes and he's been the focus of opposing defences. He never stops moving off the ball too, which drains a lot of energy. He puts up a lot of shots because he has to in order for his team to win. Up until the recent improved play of Jeremy Lamb and Shabazz Napier, there was nobody else on the team that could hit an open shot.

[Alfred]

The 2000 draft didn't produce a great player.

The 2000 draft is unquestionably the worst in recent history and arguably the worst of all time. It still produced a couple of guys who made the ASG (Magloire & K-Mart), a 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford), borderline all-stars Hedo & Michael Redd as well as solid role players in Mo-Pete, Mike Miller and Pryz.

The lockout was looming in 1998 when VC, Jamison, Dirk, Paul Pierce, Mike Bibby and white chocolate entered the draft. In 1999 Brand, Francis, Baron, Odom, Rip Hamilton, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Ron Artest, Kirilenko and Manu all entered the league under the new CBA.

In 2001 Pau, Joe Johnson, Z-Randolph, J-Rich, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Gilbert, Okur, Richard Jefferson and Shane Battier were selected. It looks like the 2000 class was very rare and it was somewhat of a fluke that there were no great players selected.

Yeah, but you can't just say that every draft has produced a great player when nobody from the 2000 was a great player.

[TheRealDeal]

The 2000 draft didn't produce a great player.

The 2000 draft is unquestionably the worst in recent history and arguably the worst of all time. It still produced a couple of guys who made the ASG (Magloire & K-Mart), a 6th man of the year (Jamal Crawford), borderline all-stars Hedo & Michael Redd as well as solid role players in Mo-Pete, Mike Miller and Pryz.

The lockout was looming in 1998 when VC, Jamison, Dirk, Paul Pierce, Mike Bibby and white chocolate entered the draft. In 1999 Brand, Francis, Baron, Odom, Rip Hamilton, Andre Miller, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Ron Artest, Kirilenko and Manu all entered the league under the new CBA.

In 2001 Pau, Joe Johnson, Z-Randolph, J-Rich, Gerald Wallace, Tony Parker, Gilbert, Okur, Richard Jefferson and Shane Battier were selected. It looks like the 2000 class was very rare and it was somewhat of a fluke that there were no great players selected.

Yeah, but you can't just say that every draft has produced a great player when nobody from the 2000 was a great player.

I explained why it's only happened once and wont likely happen again soon. If you look at just #1 overall picks since the 60's you'll find that the majority of them are in the HOF. There's been a steady influx of talent every year in the past few seasons and I don't see that changing.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think the criticism with this draft is that there doesn't seem to be a lot of can't miss blue chippers and there is an abundance of risky picks. I pointed this out before, but tweeners just don't seem to pan out near the top of the draft.

Then look at some of the flags of some of the other potential prospects

1) Kanter - didn't play at all this year
2) Barnes - hasn't produced
3) Irving - potentially serious toe injury
4) Valanciunas - averages abut 15 minutes a game and 8.3 fouls/40

And then add in the that this is the best case scenario in terms of "prospects" declaring, that some or maybe many of these underclassmen will return to school and we could be looking at a disaster.

Of course, no one knows for sure how every player will pan out, but the optics don't look all that great right now.

[baulderdash77]

The more I watch college BB, the more I think that there's really 4 players on my draft board. I really like HB, but I don't think he'll declare so he's off my list.

1. Irving- The only guy that I think is a sure fire star.
2. T. Jones- I think he's the do it all SF that we could be missing.
3. D. Williams- He's such an efficient player. I think there's a chance he could play SF too.
4. J. Hamilton- He's a pretty complete SF and I think he'll be a solid starter in the NBA but not an allstar.

That's pretty much my list at this point.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

^Yeah, it's really tough to gauge right now where the true value of this draft lies.

We have to be prepared to face the real possibility that a lot of these guys will return.

When is the deadline for early entrants, again?

I'll say that Kawhi Leonard is one guy who's moved up on my board. Length, hands, the look of a pure defender, great rebounder, developing jumpshot, hardworker, etc.

[CunningLinguist]

The more I watch college BB, the more I think that there's really 4 players on my draft board. I really like HB, but I don't think he'll declare so he's off my list.

1. Irving- The only guy that I think is a sure fire star.
2. T. Jones- I think he's the do it all SF that we could be missing.
3. D. Williams- He's such an efficient player. I think there's a chance he could play SF too.
4. J. Hamilton- He's a pretty complete SF and I think he'll be a solid starter in the NBA but not an allstar.

That's pretty much my list at this point.

I definitely agree with your top two guys. Terrence Jones is such a great fit for the Raps. His rebounding and shotblocking combined with that of Ed Davis will help mitigate Bargs' deficiencies in that regard. He has the ballhandling and passing skills that Derozan doesn't have. He also plays with a chip on his shoulder, which is something that this team needs.

[Indeed]

The more I watch college BB, the more I think that there's really 4 players on my draft board. I really like HB, but I don't think he'll declare so he's off my list.

1. Irving- The only guy that I think is a sure fire star.
2. T. Jones- I think he's the do it all SF that we could be missing.
3. D. Williams- He's such an efficient player. I think there's a chance he could play SF too.
4. J. Hamilton- He's a pretty complete SF and I think he'll be a solid starter in the NBA but not an allstar.

That's pretty much my list at this point.

I definitely agree with your top two guys. Terrence Jones is such a great fit for the Raps. His rebounding and shotblocking combined with that of Ed Davis will help mitigate Bargs' deficiencies in that regard. He has the ballhandling and passing skills that Derozan doesn't have. He also plays with a chip on his shoulder, which is something that this team needs.

Its hard to ignore Jonas Valanciunas. If we are drafting by BPA, he might be above T.Jones.
I like T. Jones a lot, second to Irving, and I like to go with our needs for this draft, but I feel Valanciunas is more rare, since we have Paul George (10th pick) last year with very similar frame (well, I guess, until we got the draft measurement).

[baulderdash77]

Jonas Valanciunas: 9 fouls per 40 minutes playing. No wonder he's only playing 14 minutes per game.

No thanks.

[TDotRep]

Plus his arm is as thick as my shlong

[Indeed]

He is not NBA ready yet, most bigs are 5-7 years project, but if we are drafting BPA, he might be ahead of T. Jones and K. Walker.

[Reignman]

Here's my pre-tourney picks:

1. Irving
2. Barnes
3. P Jones

Great consolation picks:

T Jones
Kanter
Jonas V

Would trade if he's BPA:

Sullinger

[ATLTimekeeper]

Jonas Valanciunas: 9 fouls per 40 minutes playing. No wonder he's only playing 14 minutes per game.

No thanks.

He's also averaging close to 21 and 15 per 40 as an 18 year pro. There's plenty more good than bad with him. He shoots over 90% from the line, 71% from the field. He's tough, plays with a lot of passion, works hard off the court. Like I said earlier, everyone has knocks against them in this draft. Banking on an 18 year old with signs of an advanced skill level to reduce his fouls in time seems like a decent risk.

[baulderdash77]

Jonas Valanciunas: 9 fouls per 40 minutes playing. No wonder he's only playing 14 minutes per game.

No thanks.

He's also averaging close to 21 and 15 per 40 as an 18 year pro. There's plenty more good than bad with him. He shoots over 90% from the line, 71% from the field. He's tough, plays with a lot of passion, works hard off the court. Like I said earlier, everyone has knocks against them in this draft. Banking on an 18 year old with signs of an advanced skill level to reduce his fouls in time seems like a decent risk.

That kind of productivity makes me wonder why he's not playing until he fouls out every night. Isn't that a red flag to you?

Pops Mensa-Bonsu averaged a per 36 of 27 and 18 with 11 fouls for San Antonio. That's so much better than Tim Duncan did but for some reason he couldn't stick with the team. I'm just saying that when a player fouls that much he can't get any PT.

Also anytime anyone averages 71% from the floor you have to wonder about his competition, otherwise he must be the greatest player of all time.

[5DOM]

Again, he's an 18 y/o pro whose body's far from fully developed. Of course he's going to struggle at times against grown men. Sure he may never learn to stay out of foul trouble like Amir, but the potential's there. And although I don't know much Euroleague, I expect it to have higher level of competition than college ball

[AkelaLoneWolf]

He might be a good pick at mid-first round but not with a top 5 pick.
Also, wasn't Darko touted in a similar fashion? He also came off the bench, and played limited minutes; although I must admit the similarities are somewhat superficial.

[fredericklove]

I like HB over both Jones, but I'd rather have TJ over Valanciunas by a mile.

[5DOM]

Perry Jones
Valanciunas
Terrence Jones
Harrison Barnes

for me.

[TDotRep]

All I know is we will end up with a decent prospect come draft day

[Rhettmatic]

Perry Jones
Valanciunas
Terrence Jones
Harrison Barnes

for me.

Is that post-Irving, or did he not make your top 4?