Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[eitanr]

Hinrich and Yi for Marvin Williams and Bibby? Questionable. Would make more sense if another deal is out there for Blatche or Lewis...unsure?

[hands11]

Our cap situation is messed up to be honest. Looking at the salary on Sham Sports. We've got $46 million tied up next year, not including Young's extension or our lottery pick. Hinrich could be dealt but it'd be negated by Young and the 1st year contract of the rookie anyway.

Lewis won't be valuable until February 2012...ugh.

Needless to say I know what it's like for those contracts to be on there for a long time, but I think it starts from small moves. I think it also goes without being said that the Wizards need to ask themselves what type of team they want to be now and in the future. I think this actually applies to Blatche the most.

Dray would be a quality bench player on a good team but it is looking more and more like his combination of being floor bound and a finesse player is not going to work at starting PF on a quality team. There is still a chance it does but if it did, he would have to be a lock down shooter like Dirk and need to learn to draw fouls better shooting from outside. Or he would need to be much quicker and use his body positioning better to draw more fouls.

There is a chance he can do one or the other of these things or both but the safer bet would be to get someone more athletic and physical.

This was the year Dray really needed to step up after putting in a great summer. Injury and immaturity didn't allow that to happen.

[LyricalRico]

I'm confused by the Hawks speculation. Are we asking for Bibby, a young player, and a first...or just Bibby and a first?

Why would we take Bibby str8 up for Hinrich if thats the offer?

I agree that a straight up deal makes zero sense for us, but I can also see why ATL would balk at including sweetener. Maybe make it a 3-way to get them somebody they want more than Hinrich?

Wiz trade: Hinrich
Wiz receive: Bibby and first

Nets trade: Harris
Nets receive: Hinrich and Teague

Hawks trade: Bibby, Teague, and first
Hawks receive: Harris

We get value for Hinrich, NJ gets a young player plus a shorter contract, and Atlanta gets a young-ish PG to keep them competitive.

[AceDegenerate]

ATL is off their rocker if they think they can get Hinrich for useless Bibby. I don't care if he makes 2 mil less next year. Ernie need not bend over for another division rival. This is pathetic. If this guy ends up sending Hinrich for Bibby straight up, somebody needs to boot his ass right out the door. All Ernie does is favors for every team around the league.

[Hoopalotta]

It sounds like we're asking for their 1st and a prospect, who I guess must be Jordan Crawford as I doubt we're looking for Teague, especially with Bibby on the table.

Getting all that would be a nice coup, but I'd be on board for just Hinrich for Bibby, Mo Evans and the ATL 1st. "The Hawks are not willing to give Washington both a young player and a first-round pick for Hinrich" seems like the bottom line.

That would basically be:

$9 million in 2011 money
$6.2 million in 2012 money

for

two years of serviceable veteran point guard play (between 2 guys)
17th Pick in 2010 draft
22nd(ish) pick in 2011 draft
$3 million cash

If we got Jordan Crawford thrown on top, I don't see how anyone could complain. Without him, you've probably got split opinions, but it's a more ryiasonable use of cap space than certain alternatives.

I'm in; just get the 2011 pick and we're good. We can just un-stitch the Captitano label right off of Kurt's jersey and put it right on Bibby. Disposable Heroes.

[Halcyon]

I would take Bibby and a 1st for Hinrich instead of Teague and Bibby, even in this week draft. Teague at best would be a backup PG for this team for his duration of his career here. That Atlanta pick projects to be around the low~mid 20s, we can take a shot a finding a solid role player/defender at the 2/3 spot.

[jivelikenice]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Wizards need to trade Flip for any other coach.

[Hoopalotta]

Our cap situation is messed up to be honest. Looking at the salary on Sham Sports. We've got $46 million tied up next year, not including Young's extension or our lottery pick. Hinrich could be dealt but it'd be negated by Young and the 1st year contract of the rookie anyway.

Lewis won't be valuable until February 2012...ugh.

Yeah, I fondly remember this past summer with great quotes like "as long as we're in the top 10% of flexibility" and so forth. We have a fairly low payroll, but not much at all in the way of flexibility. Not much at all.

Really, if we're looking to clear cap space for next year with a trade, it might be more of a matter of both Hinrich AND Blatche for something closer to expirings. I'd say it's better to concede a crimped cap this next year and concentrate on the Rashard buyout and having money in the summer of 2012.

It's also worth noting that it's highly unlikely that Rashard will be an expiring chip for us due to the particulars of circumstance. Theoretically, you'd say someone could send us a player with a fully guaranteed 2013 salary in a whomper of a BOYD, but there's not really a lot of contracts out there that would fit the criteria and it would kill our 2013 money. When you weigh that against a buyout, as Nate was noting in that reply to this same message, the incentive is with the latter.

As to an updated Allan Houston rule, the one thing that might potentially make it helpful to us is if they come down with something close to a hard cap. The last time they instituted the tax, so the rule was tax clearing, so if they bring in a hard-ish cap, they might just make it a full on "get out of jail free" card as that would be appropriate for the big spenders to solve their problems. However, it's likely that the main emergency valve is just they just allow teams to spend a year or two over the hard cap and bring it in gradually so as to not see a wave of exorbitantly spendy buyouts. So probably the next Allan Houston rule won't help out, but I'd say there's a 20-30% chance that it would.

[Halcyon]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

Look at the roster. Do you think we need players who would benefit us in the next 1-2 years? We need to accumulate and mold guys who can contribute for us in 3-5 years, when Wall has reached his peak. Guys like Hinrich are great for one season, but I don't think we will see much value in keeping him. Bibby is purely a backup PG who would play 10-15 min a game max for one season.

[Hoopalotta]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

I disagree; picks are the most fluid assets in the league and at worst you can trade out for a future 1st if you don't like who's there on the board. Or, if we were to get a pair of late picks combined with a willingness to take on some salary, we might be able to hop up in the draft like Oklahoma did this past year (21st + 26th for 11th and bad money; actually, OKC performed both of the previously mentioned operations in a single draft as they traded out of the 18th to the Clips). Hard pressed penny-pinchers like Charlotte might not be able to resist if we put together the right package. Also, picks can make things happen in loosening the cogs on larger consolidation trades. There's gobs of scenarios even if we don't use the pick ourselves (and I wouldn't turn my nose up at drafting a 'culture' guy either, even if not loaded with talent; veteran culture guys are expensive).

If we were actually any good, I could see the argument in Hinrich's value to us as a basketball player, but I'm not seeing much value in winning games based on veteran backups at this time. And anyway, Bibby's fully acceptable off the bench. We could even try and trade him later for a bigger dud like James Posey and potentially get further incentive.

[jivelikenice]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

Look at the roster. Do you think we need players who would benefit us in the next 1-2 years? We need to accumulate and mold guys who can contribute for us in 3-5 years, when Wall has reached his peak. Guys like Hinrich are great for one season, but I don't think we will see much value in keeping him. Bibby is purely a backup PG who would play 10-15 min a game max for one season.

I get your point but I just disagree. I see no value in adding a late first round pick to this roster. We have 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder on the team already and we can't seem to find enough pt for 3 of them. And that's before you take into account the high 1st & 2nd round selections we already have for the '11 draft.

Gilbert was right in one sense. If we really want to see Wall flourish, we need to get some vets around them. I'm not saying old guys, but I think a balanced roster built for the purpose of bringing along Wall and our '11 lotto pick is the way to go. Throwing 6 first & 2nd years guys other there with other young players trying to establish themselves is a road to nowhere.

And if Hinrich is getting is a late first now, don't you think we'd be able to to similar or at least better next year when he's an expiring contract that can help a contender? Again, I do the trade if Crawford is being offered because I believe he is a talent but I hate the idea of trading players for nothing especially when we aren't looking to be big spenders this offseason.

[dangermouse]

Id take Bibby if Jordan Crawford is incoming as well. He can shoot, dude tore it up in SL and pre-season, and hes very athletic as well.

This gives us a plan B if Nick Young cant be re-signed, and if we do re-sign Nick, he has to keep playing like he is playing now in order to not lose court time to Crawford.

Nick/Crawford at SG for the next X amount of years is that position completely sorted out. Wall/Bibby/Shakur is PG sorted, for now. Thats a step in the right direction, anyway.

[jivelikenice]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

I disagree; picks are the most fluid assets in the league and at worst you can trade out for a future 1st if you don't like who's there on the board. Or, if we were to get a pair of late picks combined with a willingness to take on some salary, we might be able to hop up in the draft like Oklahoma did this past year (21st + 26th for 11th and bad money; actually, OKC performed both of the previously mentioned operations in a single draft as they traded out of the 18th to the Clips). Hard pressed penny-pinchers like Charlotte might not be able to resist if we put together the right package. Also, picks can make things happen in loosening the cogs on larger consolidation trades. There's gobs of scenarios even if we don't use the pick ourselves (and I wouldn't turn my nose up at drafting a 'culture' guy either, even if not loaded with talent; veteran culture guys are expensive).

If we were actually any good, I could see the argument in Hinrich's value to us as a basketball player, but I'm not seeing much value in winning games based on veteran backups at this time. And anyway, Bibby's fully acceptable off the bench. We could even try and trade him later for a bigger dud like James Posey and potentially get further incentive.

If you want to be a player in free agency in '12, then we need to start building momentum as an organization next season. Who can you help more in that regard; Hinrich or a late first round pick? And please don't reference Bibby. He is horrible and doesn't bring the versatility that Hinrich brings to the table.

[eltacoman]

Atl is interested in Hinrich & Boston is interested in Howard

Atlanta IN
Kirk Hinrich
Atlanta OUT
Mike Bibby
2011 Atlanta 1st

Boston IN
Mike Bibby
Josh Howard
Boston OUT
Nate Robinson or Jermaine O’Neal
Marquis Daniels
2011 Boston 1st

Washinton IN
Nate Robinson or Jermaine O’Neal
Marquis Daniels
2011 Atlanta 1st (18th -24th)
2011 Boston 1st (28th – 25th)
Washinton OUT
Kirk Hinrich
Josh Howard

STOCK DEM PICKS UP ERNIE !!!

[LyricalRico]

^ Great variation! I'm definitely doing that.

I also like danger's thought to try to get Jordan Crawford, although I'm not sure the Hawks will want to part with him. Maybe that's the reason this is going down to the wire?

[Hoopalotta]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

I disagree; picks are the most fluid assets in the league and at worst you can trade out for a future 1st if you don't like who's there on the board. Or, if we were to get a pair of late picks combined with a willingness to take on some salary, we might be able to hop up in the draft like Oklahoma did this past year (21st + 26th for 11th and bad money; actually, OKC performed both of the previously mentioned operations in a single draft as they traded out of the 18th to the Clips). Hard pressed penny-pinchers like Charlotte might not be able to resist if we put together the right package. Also, picks can make things happen in loosening the cogs on larger consolidation trades. There's gobs of scenarios even if we don't use the pick ourselves (and I wouldn't turn my nose up at drafting a 'culture' guy either, even if not loaded with talent; veteran culture guys are expensive).

If we were actually any good, I could see the argument in Hinrich's value to us as a basketball player, but I'm not seeing much value in winning games based on veteran backups at this time. And anyway, Bibby's fully acceptable off the bench. We could even try and trade him later for a bigger dud like James Posey and potentially get further incentive.

If you want to be a player in free agency in '12, then we need to start building momentum as an organization next season. Who can you help more in that regard; Hinrich or a late first round pick? And please don't reference Bibby. He is horrible and doesn't bring the versatility that Hinrich brings to the table.

There's about a 10% chance at the outside that we're riding this current roster into a 2012 turnaround that would see free agents tickled unto rapture at the prospect of inking with us. And with the retention of all our higher end money guys along with the resigning of Nick Young, it means it's continuity or bust. I'm not seeing the prospects of momentous momentum being gained.

Sure Hinrich's a nice backup point, but if anyone does want to play here specifically, it's probably based on their wanting to catch Wall passes while enjoying a hearty stipend as much as anything. And outside of restricted guys, there's not even that many dream targets for us seeing as two of the top players available on the market are pointy guards. I'd easily compromise our precarious free agent opportunities for a pick; easily.

Again, ideally, we use that late first to island hop upward into the first round by pooling assets with the willingness to BOYD. There's very little chance that we pull a single trade to acquire another late lottery pick, but it might be possible with a double of triple pronged approach; something like the Hotlanta pick is a potential beachhead.

[verbal8]

^ Great variation! I'm definitely doing that.

I also like danger's thought to try to get Jordan Crawford, although I'm not sure the Hawks will want to part with him. Maybe that's the reason this is going down to the wire?

I like Bibby for Hinrich if the Wizards get a sweetener. I would rank them in the potential sweeteners in this order:

Jordan Crawford
2012 1st
2011 1st

I don't think there is a big rush for the Wizards to jump on the deal if they only are getting one(although I would pull the trigger on Crawford and Bibby). I would settle for Bibby and the 2011 1st, but wait up to the deadline.

[hands11]

Wizards need to trade Flip for any other coach.

[hands11]

Do we really have use for a pick in the early 20's in a weak draft? Hinrich can play ball and has the versatility to play the 1 or 2. Bibby is a slow footed shoot first pg who brings nothing to the table for the Wizards. Neither asset we'd be getting from the Hawks would be beneficial to us in the next year and a half and Hinrich is off the books in '12 so whats the point? BAD DEAL unless Jordan Crawford's name is in the deal as well.

Look at the roster. Do you think we need players who would benefit us in the next 1-2 years? We need to accumulate and mold guys who can contribute for us in 3-5 years, when Wall has reached his peak. Guys like Hinrich are great for one season, but I don't think we will see much value in keeping him. Bibby is purely a backup PG who would play 10-15 min a game max for one season.

I get your point but I just disagree. I see no value in adding a late first round pick to this roster. We have 3 first rounders and a 2nd rounder on the team already and we can't seem to find enough pt for 3 of them. And that's before you take into account the high 1st & 2nd round selections we already have for the '11 draft.

Gilbert was right in one sense. If we really want to see Wall flourish, we need to get some vets around them. I'm not saying old guys, but I think a balanced roster built for the purpose of bringing along Wall and our '11 lotto pick is the way to go. Throwing 6 first & 2nd years guys other there with other young players trying to establish themselves is a road to nowhere.

And if Hinrich is getting is a late first now, don't you think we'd be able to to similar or at least better next year when he's an expiring contract that can help a contender? Again, I do the trade if Crawford is being offered because I believe he is a talent but I hate the idea of trading players for nothing especially when we aren't looking to be big spenders this offseason.

good points.

If I could sum up the teams problems this year it is... to many rookies, to much finesse, combined with not enough healthy vets and no reliable center to go with your rookie PG.

Gil start the year with the team while we had Kirk and no Howard.
Then we had Lewis, no Howard and Kirk sometimes injured.
Now we have Howard and Lewis for one game no Kirk even any back up PG

That is simply to rudderless a line up to develop your better younger players and you can only develop so many young players at a time. Had they had Kirk, Howard and Lewis the whole year, they would have helped ground the team so you can bring along your younger players better. And when you are really to make a run, you are going to need vets on your team.

They are already going to add another high pick next year. Future picks are always an asset but they need to keep a solid core of vets. They probably need to move Dray and decide on their starting PF and center. They need more power in the paint.

All we really know right now is that Wall is the starting PG. Nick is probably the starting SG but not definite. I would be fine with Howard as the starting SF with then drafting a SF who could start in the future or eventually be traded for a starting future SF.

There is so much up in the air still for this team, you can spin it a ton of different ways depending on your own particular likings. You could project McGee as a center or PF or back up for both or not even here. You can say start Seraphin at center. You can say they are both bench players. You could no be sold on Nick and want to trade him for a SG or keep him as the starter.

This is really the biggest problem right now. This thing doesn't have enough form. Loading up on rookies is a gamble since you rarely know what you have for a few years. At some point, they need to lose the flexibility for more form. The question is why and how do you get there.

What I do believe regardless of how they do it is this, they need more Booker/Seraphin tough type players. Even your PG can be tough. I think Kidd, CP and Rondo are that way. Rarely do you find a Durant type and if you do, you can't have a team of them. Hansbrough is a perfect example of a solid player. He had some limits, but he knows his game. It's effort. He plays his roll and he gets to the line racking up fouls against your team. He has a strong body and he uses it.

We simply don't have enough Booker, Seraphin types and need to keep adding them.

Nick, Dray, McGee, Yi, Lewis is to much finesse or grit and the first four are not mental giants. Keeping two if you like their projected talent upside would be enough. If I had to pick, it would be Nick and McGee but if you keep McGee, you need to decide on his role. I'm still not sold he is a starting center. If he isn't, who is ?

There are just so many questions for this team still up in the air. They need to start picking a direction. If they have and McGee is slotted as the future starting center, then it is what it is. We will live or die based on if he can get stronger and fill those shoes. I'd rather he try to prove himself from the bench. I have no problem with them giving him the chance to prove himself this year but I think it is safe to say, he didn't do enough to lock himself in there as the starter of the future. But he is still a very interesting project that I wouldn't be to quick to give up on. He is just to athletic and long. I think he is a keeper for back up PF/C who needs more minutes at PF. He could be an amazing finisher at PF and great weak-side help.

Biggest problem for this team right now is figuring our or developing the starting center. Same problem they had to start the year. Next, who will be the power forward. If it is a finesse Dray, then you really need a powerful center. That is not McGee.