Collusion Among Players

[Curmudgeon]

My apologies if this issue has been vetted before, but when I read about Player A and Player B discussing publicly whether or not they will play together for a certain team next year, I remember Section 5(f) of the standard player contract, which reads:

"(f) The Player agrees that he will not, during the term of this Contract, directly or indirectly, entice, induce, or persuade, or attempt to entice, induce, or persuade, any player or coach who is under contract to any NBA team to enter into negotiations for or relating to his services as a basketball player or coach, nor shall he negotiate for or contract for such services, except with the prior written consent of such team. Breach of this subparagraph, in addition to the remedies available to the Team, shall be punishable by fine and/or suspension to be imposed by the Commissioner."

If two free agents want to discuss going to the same team, that's fine. But when one or both of them are still under contract, isn't there a clear breach of this section? I suppose it's difficult to prove, but has Stern ever made the slightest attempt to enforce this provision?

[OGSactownballer]

Like many of the little rules that are ignored in life these days, if this provision had been and was being enforced, we wouldn't be in the situation we are now in.

[Agenda42]

If two free agents want to discuss going to the same team, that's fine. But when one or both of them are still under contract, isn't there a clear breach of this section?

To be sure, you'd need a contract lawyer. Here's my take, though:

A player who is under contract with an NBA team can freely attempt to persuade any free agent to join them. Also, a free agent can lobby for a player under contract with an NBA team to join them somewhere else without penalty. The section only applies if both players are under contract.

The section also only applies to players being persuaded to "enter into negotiations for or relating to his services as a basketball player". If a player is persuaded to demand a trade to another team, that's not covered by this section, because a demanding a trade does not enter the player into any negotiations.

The remaining case is where two players who are still under contract discuss where they will sign next. This obviously does happen, and this rule is why LeBron, Bosh, and Wade all had to be careful to claim they didn't have any contact with one another prior to July 1. Still, proving a player violated this paragraph is pretty difficult, and I would assume that's why it's not often enforced.

[Curmudgeon]

Why isn't a trade "relating to [the player's] services as a basketball player?" Also, a player under contract who enters into a back and forth discussion with a free agent about joining another team is arguably engaging in "negotiations," although that is indeed a much fuzzier situation.

Dwayne Wade certainly breached this provision if he talked to LeBron or Bosh before July 1, 2010. LeBron announced that he was leaving Cleveland on July 8, 2010. Do you have any doubt that both LeBron and Bosh had entered into preliminary contract negotiations with the Heat prior to July 1?

If I were the commissioner I would have fined Wade a million dollars, maybe two.

[loserX]

Dwayne Wade certainly breached this provision if he talked to LeBron or Bosh before July 1, 2010. LeBron announced that he was leaving Cleveland on July 8, 2010. Do you have any doubt that both LeBron and Bosh had entered into preliminary contract negotiations with the Heat prior to July 1?

If I were the commissioner I would have fined Wade a million dollars, maybe two.

"Lack of doubt" is not proof. Can anyone prove what Wade said? Good luck fining anyone without opening that can of worms.

The other complicating factor here is that Wade too was a free agent that summer. Even if it could be proven that Wade said "hey guys, we should all play together 'somewhere'...", would that qualify as tampering?

[Curmudgeon]

Well, a free agent isn't bound by the contract, so he can say anything he wants. But Wade did not become a free agent until July 1. All discussions prior to July 1 among the three players in question were collusion.

Is it difficult to prove? Yes. But not impossible. It was also collusion if the agents talked among themselves, because that's just colluding indirectly. There are phone records, etc.

I suppose the provision has value in that players can't solicit their friends to play with them publicly. They must speak privately. It keeps the fans and the press from knowing.

[Nanogeek]

I liked the latest tampering circumvention. Prokhorov tells Deron in private they will make a run at Dwight and then Deron says he did so. Since a player says it its not tampering but if Prokhorov had made the statement himself publicly it would have been tampering.

[Curmudgeon]

So, Durant and Westbrook attempted to "recruit" Love over all-star weekend. All are currently under contract. I doubt if the Wolves gave Durant and Westbrook permission to attempt to persuade Love to leave Minnesota and join them in Oklahoma City. Isn't this obvious collusion? It's currently the lead story on Real GM.

What is Stern going to do about it?

[Dunkenstein]

The original piece on RealGM was a synopsis of an article on NBA.com by David Aldridge which says:

Love, who'll be a restricted free agent in '12 got recruiting pitches from everyone during All-Star Weekend in Los Angeles. "A lot of it was (about) OKC," Love said. "A lot of it was a few other teams that just need that one more guy. And a lot of it was circulating around the Lakers, 'cause we were out there as well.

There was no mention of Durant or Westbrook in Aldridge's article. RealGM has subsequently updated their piece to better reflect what Aldridge actually reported.

[Curmudgeon]

So who else from OKC was at all-star weekend? It should be easy enough for Stern to find out. Or, someone from the league office should simply ask Love who it was.

If I were Glenn Taylor I'd be on the phone to the league office immediately.

[Dunkenstein]

So who else from OKC was at all-star weekend? It should be easy enough for Stern to find out. Or, someone from the league office should simply ask Love who it was.

Stern doesn't want to know. Stern's goal is to avoid conflict or controversy. He has nothing to gain by trying to find out if one of the league's emerging stars is guilty of tampering. The reality is that tampering goes on all the time and unless it's an obvious case where specific names are mentioned in the media, the league sweeps it under the rug. How many instances can you point to where a team or individual were punished for either tampering or collusion?

[Curmudgeon]

So who else from OKC was at all-star weekend? It should be easy enough for Stern to find out. Or, someone from the league office should simply ask Love who it was.

Stern doesn't want to know. Stern's goal is to avoid conflict or controversy. He has nothing to gain by trying to find out if one of the league's emerging stars is guilty of tampering. The reality is that tampering goes on all the time and unless it's an obvious case where specific names are mentioned in the media, the league sweeps it under the rug. How many instances can you point to where a team or individual were punished for either tampering or collusion?

I believe that teams and GMs have been disciplined, but not (to my knowledge) players. For example in 2010 Cuban was fined $100K and Steve Kerr was fined $10K for tampering.

[The Rebel]

You had Amare openly talking about talking to Melo and trying to recruit Melo, if Stern and the league are not going to do something about that, then he is not going to do anything about conversations at the all star game.

[hands11]

Miami Heat got slapped when they did it with J Howard against the Washington team.

I think they may have even lost a pick over that.

[shrink]

While I don't think we'll see action by Stern, especially when he has bigger fish to fry these days with the Player's Association, if a sanction was given, it would be interesting to see whether sanctions would be levied against the player or also against the team.

Are players acting as agents of the team, trying to improve the team/organization as a whole?

I'm sure if the rule is in place, you don't want Sam Pesti saying, "Now listen Russell - while I can't talk to Kevin Love, you can, and this is what I want you to say ...!"

[d-train]

If two free agents want to discuss going to the same team, that's fine. But when one or both of them are still under contract, isn't there a clear breach of this section? I suppose it's difficult to prove, but has Stern ever made the slightest attempt to enforce this provision?

It might be a breach of contract (although I doubt it), but it certainly isn't collusion. Absent a CBA, laws protect workers from employers colluding to reduce salaries paid to workers. I don't believe employers would have much luck seeking protection from workers. It’s easy for workers to prove money damages if they can’t freely negotiate with competing employers but it would be difficult for employers to prove damages because of workers recruiting other workers to an employer. How would this activity be more than self-imposed restrictions that might reduce workers market value?