GT Feb 27th: Charlotte @ Orlando 6:00pm

[W_HAMILTON]

We have a better chacne to win a championship and have a home playoff series NOW with what were doing than we ever would of had before.

No, we don't. There's a much better chance we draft Okafor Jr. and Felton Jr. and we repeat this whole process again over the next few years, wasting another seven years of everyone's life.

You can continue to dabble in mediocrity, but I respect an owner willing to take a chance to become great. I will always lean towards a chance to become great, or atleast good, versus just being mediocre for 5 years then having to restart because of age anyway.

By apparently only settling for a championship, you are dooming this team and its fans to a fate worse than "mediocrity." What do you call it when all you get for your years of sucking is one winning season and a quick playoff exit? That's worse than mediocrity, but that's what we're now getting.

And you don't restart. That's your problem. This is not a start and stop process. If you have ample talent, you don't have to restart. You continually retool. There is not a rebuilding process. You don't burn down the house and start all over again. You make continual improvements, so that 30-win team becomes a 40-win team, and that 40-win team becomes a 45-win team, etc. That process is infinitely more rewarding than whatever it is you are advocating. Give me a "mediocre" team that has the talent and pieces to grow and get better over rewinding the clock back to 2004 (except we're in even a less advantageous situation now).

[amcoolio]

I think MJ is banking on a hard cap. Which would mean a Chris Paul type would likely come here if we had the caproom to give him a max deal.

We really need to draft well this year, though. Even if we trade both picks for a higher pick.

I know this draft isn't considered strong, but we can still get a good player.

[Jaruff]

I think MJ is banking on a hard cap. Which would mean a Chris Paul type would likely come here if we had the caproom to give him a max deal.

We really need to draft well this year, though. Even if we trade both picks for a higher pick.

I know this draft isn't considered strong, but we can still get a good player.

Can we even do that? I know there's the rule about trading draft picks in consecutive years but does that cover trading for a higher pick?

[bobcats3wallace]

I think MJ is banking on a hard cap. Which would mean a Chris Paul type would likely come here if we had the caproom to give him a max deal.

We really need to draft well this year, though. Even if we trade both picks for a higher pick.

I know this draft isn't considered strong, but we can still get a good player.

Can we even do that? I know there's the rule about trading draft picks in consecutive years but does that cover trading for a higher pick?

The rule is that you must have a draft pick. S O I would think you could trade your own draft pick as long as your getting one back. Plus, draft day trades normally happen after you draft the player. For example, the teams reach a deal, tell eachother what to draft, then swap the player. Which in that case we would still be using our pick.

[bobcats3wallace]

We could've packaged Felton in a s&t with TC.....something.

Except you can't package him with anything in a potential sign and trade. It would of had to been two seperate deals and the Knicks were not giving up anything in a sign and trade. Plus, under Silas, I'll take DJ over Felton anyway. I think we got the better end of the deal...

[Diop]

I'm not really upset with any of the moves this team has made in the last 12 months.

I think not signing Felt's for his asking price was a good decision.
I think the Chandler trade was a gamble that didn't come off. I'm glad they took a shot.
Crash was the start of rebuilding, it appears that 2 first round draft picks was the best we could get for him. I've seen teams get a lot less for their best player.

They have a plan, I'm happy to wait and see how it goes.

[Walt Cronkite]

Probably not surprising, I agree quite a bit with Hamilton. Sure, the end goal for any athletic club is to win the championship... but when you're on the journey towards that goal, sometimes other things become as important. Things like:

-Do I like to watch this team play? Am I excited for their games? Do they bore me?
-Are most of these players likable?
-Does the team have a quality to it that resonates with it's local base?

We have been a really difficult team to follow for years and we have just recently (like the past couple of months) become a team that I've enjoyed watching. Chabber and I discussed this at the game Friday-- it was cool when LB came here because of how inept everything was before him and it was awesome to watch a winning team, even if it was slow down defensive basketball... because they were winning and that was so novel. I would've had no problem keeping the team together and being a broken team that peaked at the 6th seed as long as we didn't keep making bad long term contractual obligations (Okafor, Carroll, Diop, keeping Felton) as long as they were fun to watch... but we're past that point now.

I want to see this current group play hard for the rest of the season (if we lose a bunch of games and the end of the season is approaching and we can get some additional lotto odds by losing a few games, we need to play our youngest guys and try to lose for those odds, though) and I hope we hear a lot of rumors about the team going after a difference maker like CP this offseason. When that falls through, I want for us to have drafted a skilled wingman that has limited health concerns and doesn't have a questionable work ethic.

Anyway, I missed the game. What's up with Hendo's looks? 2-13?

[captaincrunk]

We have a better chacne to win a championship and have a home playoff series NOW with what were doing than we ever would of had before.

No, we don't. There's a much better chance we draft Okafor Jr. and Felton Jr. and we repeat this whole process again over the next few years, wasting another seven years of everyone's life.

So the last seven years have been a waste? What do YOU want, exactly, and how do YOU propose to get it?

[captaincrunk]

We could've packaged Felton in a s&t with TC.....something.

Except you can't package him with anything in a potential sign and trade. It would of had to been two seperate deals and the Knicks were not giving up anything in a sign and trade. Plus, under Silas, I'll take DJ over Felton anyway. I think we got the better end of the deal...

There was no deal... We should have asked for Toney Douglas and a 2nd round pick though.

[W_HAMILTON]

I already said what I wanted.

I want a consistently successful team that is competitive and continually looks to improve their roster and get better incrementally. I don't care if they are only good enough to be an 8th seed right now, as long as they keep adding assets and making minor improvements so that we continually get better. I had no problem with the way we were going until we started to shed talent that it took years to accumulate and develop, many times without getting anything close to comparable talent in return. It was just simply, "here, take our good players."

And, yes, it's been a waste. We would be better off by rolling the clock back to 2004 rather than "meander" for two years in this purgatory where we are basically just biding time until these future draft picks and cap space materialize into something that can actually benefit us on-the-court. And that's assuming it helps us to begin with. Again, who's to say we don't use the draft picks on Morrison Jr. and May Jr., and use the cap space on Richardson Jr. then complain about him and his contract almost immediately upon acquiring him? What then? Waste another seven years and try to do better the next time?

It's a poor way to build a team. It's luck-based, time-consuming, and it demoralizes most casual fans (hell, and even some "hardcore" ones). And losing breeds losing; guys we want to draft will want to manuever away from us, we don't benefit from adding veteran talent that is bought out because no one wants to play for a perennial loser, guys that do end up on the team may want to try to force their way out, etc.

[captaincrunk]

I already said what I wanted.

I want a consistently successful team that is competitive and continually looks to improve their roster and get better incrementally. I don't care if they are only good enough to be an 8th seed right now, as long as they keep adding assets and making minor improvements so that we continually get better. I had no problem with the way we were going until we started to shed talent that it took years to accumulate and develop, many times without getting anything close to comparable talent in return. It was just simply, "here, take our good players."

And, yes, it's been a waste. We would be better off by rolling the clock back to 2004 rather than "meander" for two years in this purgatory where we are basically just biding time until these future draft picks and cap space materialize into something that can actually benefit us on-the-court. And that's assuming it helps us to begin with. Again, who's to say we don't use the draft picks on Morrison Jr. and May Jr., and use the cap space on Richardson Jr. then complain about him and his contract almost immediately upon acquiring him? What then? Waste another seven years and try to do better the next time?

It's a poor way to build a team. It's luck-based, time-consuming, and it demoralizes most casual fans (hell, and even some "hardcore" ones). And losing breeds losing; guys we want to draft will want to manuever away from us, we don't benefit from adding veteran talent that is bought out because no one wants to play for a perennial loser, guys that do end up on the team may want to try to force their way out, etc.

If we started the season with our current roster and Silas as coach, we'd likely still be in the playoffs. Maybe 7th seed or so. Our team is better than their current record.

Would you have resigned felton? Extended Tyson Chandler? I doubt it. I doubt there are many moves you would make that would result in a substantively different team.

[W_HAMILTON]

I don't know what you mean, but if you are referring to the fact that the post-Brown, pre-trade deadline Bobcats would have most likely made the playoffs if we had that lineup the whole season, I agree. That's even more reason not to blow things up.

The NBA is a talent-driven league, and you just can't afford to give away three starters for nothing.

[captaincrunk]

I don't know what you mean, but if you are referring to the fact that the post-Brown, pre-trade deadline Bobcats would have most likely made the playoffs if we had that lineup the whole season, I agree. That's even more reason not to blow things up.

The NBA is a talent-driven league, and you just can't afford to give away three starters for nothing.

No, post trade deadline bobcats makes the playoffs with a full season under silas this year. If Brown was never here, and we made the wallace trade 1st day of the season, we'd make the playoffs.

[W_HAMILTON]

No, post trade deadline bobcats makes the playoffs with a full season under silas this year. If Brown was never here, and we made the wallace trade 1st day of the season, we'd make the playoffs.

Well, that's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). You are giving the post-trade team credit for what they pre-trade team did. If THIS team would be in the playoffs had we had them all year, we should still end up in the playoffs because we were basically tied with IND recently. If they could outplay them for the entire season, they should be able to outplay them for these final couple of months, in which case, we would be in the playoffs.

[captaincrunk]

No, post trade deadline bobcats makes the playoffs with a full season under silas this year. If Brown was never here, and we made the wallace trade 1st day of the season, we'd make the playoffs.

Well, that's just (Please Use More Appropriate Word). You are giving the post-trade team credit for what they pre-trade team did. If THIS team would be in the playoffs had we had them all year, we should still end up in the playoffs because we were basically tied with IND recently. If they could outplay them for the entire season, they should be able to outplay them for these final couple of months, in which case, we would be in the playoffs.

What??? The pre-Brown team was 9-19. It doesn't get much worse than that. We spent most of the games with Silas without Gerald Wallace, and still won more games than Brown could. It's not that we could beat out Indy, it's that we could have a .500 record. But when your HOF coach goes 9-19...

Whatever though. Call me the (Please Use More Appropriate Word) when you're the one who can't connect the dots, and colors outside the lines.

[W_HAMILTON]

What the hell is a pre-Brown team? I said pre-trade.

Point is, if THIS team would have made the playoffs had we started the season with them (and Silas), they should still make the playoffs.

We start the season tied 0-0 with IND and we have to be better than them to make the playoffs. Now, it's basically like we're starting the season once again tied with IND and we have to be better than them to make the playoffs.