Official Trade Thread XV: 12/22/10 - 5/3/11

[theboomking]

Booker had no problem backing down Elton Brand when they played Philly. I am having a hard time thinking of an instance of anyone backing down Booker.

Milsaps extra bulk didn't do him any good against 235 pound Josh Smith. Smith clowned him and Smith isn't nearly as strong as Booker.

Booker's rebounds per minute are almost identical to Milsap. I guess Milsap isn't putting his bulk to good use.

What you said. Booker is a stud. I haven't seen him backed down, and he has had no problem backing others down. I think where his length gets him into a little bit of trouble is when trying to challenge the shots of taller players, and on the boards.

Booker may not ever be an elite PF, but he brings a lot to this team, is a huge upgrade over Blatche, and has played very well when given the minutes. I think at this point, he is a safe bet to be a valuable backup, and I hold out hope that he could become a competent starter. I have more hope for Booker than I do for Blatche or maybe even McGee at this point. Booker's length seems to hold him back less than McGee's girth does at times, and Booker isn't a head case.

[Ruzious]

My apologies, nate. I'll work on it. I need to realize that what seems obvious to me isn't always that way to others.

Tontos, that's a good question as to why the do the bench press drill. I've always wondered why they do it. The smallest guy in the NBA can blow away probably 90% of the rest of the NBA. Like I said when Sweetney did I think 3 reps at 180, at the time I weighed 160 lbs and typically did 10-12 reps at 200-220 lbs in my workouts. And Sweetney would toss me around like a ragdoll if I tried to cover him - after he'd stop laughing at me.

[tontoz]

My apologies, nate. I'll work on it. I need to realize that what seems obvious to me isn't always that way to others.

Tontos, that's a good question as to why the do the bench press drill. I've always wondered why they do it. The smallest guy in the NBA can blow away probably 90% of the rest of the NBA. Like I said when Sweetney did I think 3 reps at 180, at the time I weighed 160 lbs and typically did 10-12 reps at 200-220 lbs in my workouts. And Sweetney would toss me around like a ragdoll if I tried to cover him - after he'd stop laughing at me.

They do it to measure strength. Strength matters just like speed and jumping ability. Basketball players are at a disadvantage relative to smaller people because their arms are longer. But relative to players of similar size the results are very relevant.

Horford made the All-Star game at center. Amare plays center for NY. Both are under 250 pounds as are Noah and Joel Anthony.

At the 4 in the East there is Josh Smith, Wilson Chandler, Thad Young, Diaw/Tyrus Thomas, Ryan Anderson, Bosh, Jamison, Gooden, and so on and on. None of those guys have a prayer of overpowering Booker.

Who are these 4s who have such a big bulk/strength advantage over Booker?

[nate33]

I know it's blasphemy to ever bring out the Charles Barkley comparison, but something about Booker reminds me a little of Barkley.

Barkley had a way of posting up bigger players, and when he jumped, he kind of drifted laterally and slightly into the defender, so that the defender got charged with a foul but Barkley would continue to glide in the air away from the defender enough so he could get his shot off. Booker has a way of gliding in the air when he jumps. If he can just learn to initiate a bit more contact while doing so, he could get to the free throw line a lot.

Booker doesn't have Barkley's lower body strength though. He probably won't ever be capable of getting deep post position with such regularity.

[Ruzious]

My apologies, nate. I'll work on it. I need to realize that what seems obvious to me isn't always that way to others.

Tontos, that's a good question as to why the do the bench press drill. I've always wondered why they do it. The smallest guy in the NBA can blow away probably 90% of the rest of the NBA. Like I said when Sweetney did I think 3 reps at 180, at the time I weighed 160 lbs and typically did 10-12 reps at 200-220 lbs in my workouts. And Sweetney would toss me around like a ragdoll if I tried to cover him - after he'd stop laughing at me.

They do it to measure strength. Strength matters just like speed and jumping ability.

Horford made the All-Star game at center. amare plays center for NY. Both are under 250 pounds as are Noah and Joel Anthony.

At the 4 in the East there is Josh Smith, Wilson Chandler, Thad Young, Diaw/Tyrus Thomas, Ryan Anderson, Bosh, Jamison, Gooden, and so on and on. None of those guys have a prayer of overpowering Booker.

Who are these 4s who have such a big bulk/strength advantage over Booker?

Of course strength is extremely important. Problem is - like I explained - the bench press doesn't begin to measure basketball strength.

Nate, Barkley... Ok, I won't say anything.

[tontoz]

Of course strength is extremely important. Problem is - like I explained - the bench press doesn't begin to measure basketball strength.

Nate, Barkley... Ok, I won't say anything.

So i guess you know more than all of the people who are spending millions in salary for NBA players.

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to list the 4s who can push Booker around due their superior bulk.

[nate33]

Nate, Barkley... Ok, I won't say anything.

Misrepresent much?

I never said that Booker is going to be the next Barkley. I just pointed out that one small aspect of his game reminds me of Barkley. I even wrote an additional paragraph to further clarify that Booker cannot do the things that Barkley could do.

[Ruzious]

Nate, Barkley... Ok, I won't say anything.

Misrepresent much?

I never said that Booker is going to be the next Barkley. I just pointed out that one small aspect of his game reminds me of Barkley. I even wrote an additional paragraph to further clarify that Booker cannot do the things that Barkley could do.

Umm... truce? Peace?

[AceDegenerate]

All I know is there is a serious case of overrating our own players on this team. Once they reach a certain age or certain contract #, then everyone is ready to throw them off the deep end. It's pathetic really, and many here need to keep some perspective regarding our record and failings more than propping our young players up on a pedestal all the time. The team sucks, who's fault is it because I see a lot of the same folks who defend our coach/GM/Owner also speaking about how great our young players are. I'm pretty sure that if everyone involved with this franchise was as good as some here would like to believe they are we might have more than 1 road win with 20 games left in the season.

[Ruzious]

Of course strength is extremely important. Problem is - like I explained - the bench press doesn't begin to measure basketball strength.

Nate, Barkley... Ok, I won't say anything.

So i guess you know more than all of the people who are spending millions in salary for NBA players.

I won't hold my breath waiting for you to list the 4s who can push Booker around due their superior bulk.

It's just my opinion - for the reasons I stated. Again, I don't know why they do the test. Maybe they have a reason, but I don't know what it is.

[tontoz]

It's just my opinion - for the reasons I stated. Again, I don't know why they do the test. Maybe they have a reason, but I don't know what it is.

So who are these mystery 4s who can push Booker around due to their superior bulk?

[nate33]

I agree that the bench press test is pretty pointless. They'd be better off doing some kind of power squat test. At least that provides a measurment of something that's far more relevant to the sport of basketball.

[tontoz]

I agree that the bench press test is pretty pointless. They'd be better off doing some kind of power squat test. At least that provides a measurment of something that's far more relevant to the sport of basketball.

Guys would still be making the same argument even if they changed the test. when Nate Robinson squats more than Sweeney they would still be saying that it isn't relevant because Sweeney can back down Robinson due to his weight advantage.


Looking at Dwight Howards physique (or Oakley, Malone, Big Ben in the past) it is pretty clear that upper body strength has relevance in basketball. When guys are fighting for position inside or trying to push someone out of post position upper body strength definitely comes into play.

[Ruzious]

It's just my opinion - for the reasons I stated. Again, I don't know why they do the test. Maybe they have a reason, but I don't know what it is.

So who are these mystery 4s who can push Booker around due to their superior bulk?

I'd guess the majority of NBA 4's have a strength advantage on him - as well as a height advantage on him.

[tontoz]

It's just my opinion - for the reasons I stated. Again, I don't know why they do the test. Maybe they have a reason, but I don't know what it is.

So who are these mystery 4s who can push Booker around due to their superior bulk?

I'd guess the majority of NBA 4's have a strength advantage on him - as well as a height advantage on him.

Funny how you mention no names. I listed a bunch of 4s in the east that Booker is clearly stronger than. You havent mentioned any that are stronger than him. Saying the majority of 4s are stronger than him is just nuts.

[nate33]

I agree that the bench press test is pretty pointless. They'd be better off doing some kind of power squat test. At least that provides a measurment of something that's far more relevant to the sport of basketball.

Guys would still be making the same argument even if they changed the test. when Nate Robinson squats more than Sweeney they would still be saying that it isn't relevant because Sweeney can back down Robinson due to his weight advantage.

Sure, little guys would do better because of leverage with smaller limbs, but GM's already know this. They don't expect Brendan Haywood to squat more than Earl Boykins. But it would still be a useful stat to measure Brendan Haywood's ability to establish low post position against Tyson Chandler. It tells me more about what I want to know than what a bench press score would tell.

[tontoz]

Sure, little guys would do better because of leverage with smaller limbs, but GM's already know this. They don't expect Brendan Haywood to squat more than Earl Boykins. But it would still be a useful stat to measure Brendan Haywood's ability to establish low post position against Tyson Chandler. It tells me more about what I want to know than what a bench press score would tell.

But the argument against it wouldn't change regardless of what the lift is. If Ruzious can claim that most 4s are stronger than Booker i have no doubt that he would dismiss a squat test just like he dismisses the bench press.

[llcc25]

Prior the nba draft, we trade our #1 pick (prob 1-5) and fillers for Batum and Oden from Portland.
And then try to package a combo of Blatch, McGee and our other #1 for Cousins...

Going into next year our potential starting lineup for 2011/2012 is:
PG-Wall/Crawford/Shakur
SG-Young/Crawford/Martin
SF-Howard/Batum/Thornton
PF-Lewis/Booker/Yi
C-Cousins/Oden/Seraphin/

Hopefully, Wall and Young continue to progress, Howard comes back healthy and Cousins/Oden give us the inside presence we've lacked this year...

[Severn Hoos]

Is there a way to cut & paste this entire discussion for re-use in June? Do a Find+Replace of "Sullinger" for "Booker" and I think we'd all save a ton of typing time.

[Ruzious]

So who are these mystery 4s who can push Booker around due to their superior bulk?

I'd guess the majority of NBA 4's have a strength advantage on him - as well as a height advantage on him.

Funny how you mention no names. I listed a bunch of 4s in the east that Booker is clearly stronger than. You havent mentioned any that are stronger than him. Saying the majority of 4s are stronger than him is just nuts.

Sorry if it offends you somehow, but that's my opinion. On average, if guys weigh more and are in roughly the same shape, the heavier guy is going to be the stronger guy. Booker's probably 10 lbs or so lighter than the average PF. Squats would probably make a lot more sense than bench presses, since you need the low body strength to plant inside in the NBA. Even in the NFL, where players do sometimes use sortofa bench press type move to push off an opponent, I heard an NLF draft expert the other day laughing about people taking the bench press seriously at the combine.