The new Bobcats Reality

[W_HAMILTON]

Unless you have a player on a rookie contract or get extremely lucky (by signing a player for cheap then have him explode), the type of production Okafor gave us is going to get you a big contract. That's just how it is in the NBA.

To further this point, apparently Perkins is going to make around 8m/year, even though he's had some injury problems and only put up 10/8 in his best season.

[W_HAMILTON]

So you don't like anything about the team, but you like the team. Congratulations.

Even with this talent-depleted roster, there are parts I like. But if you care about a team, you want to see them do what is best, and I have seen them do just the opposite over the past few years. I believe that we have shed talent in order to chase an incredibly unrealistic rebuilding plan, and most likely will find ourselves in this same position in a few years. I believe it is much more likely that the result of this rebuilding effort will result in a team made up of players like Okafor, Diaw, Wallace, Jackson, Felton, etc., in which case, why the hell did we scrap that previous team just to suck for a few years and end up where we left off?

Has captaincrunk replaced Battery as the go-to "argue with everybody" guy?

What's funny is, I actually like him as a poster...but then he pissed me off

I figure it's the same situation I had with doc.end after the Okafor trade. I always liked doc.end, then he got mad at me for complaining about the trade so much, then I got mad and eventually got over it

[Battery]

Captain Crunkelicious you need to get yourself a pair of tights and a cape. You're like the superhero of angry college kids swooping in on every message board to knock out every local passionate fan.



Whenever I read one of your posts I hear the theme song from Greatest American Hero playing in the background...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ZUSQQdoS4[/youtube]


Loved this show when I was growing up. So bad yet so funny.....

[hotrod]

BobcatsHannah Michael Jordan Is Copying The Knicks And Nets | Dime Magazine (dimemag.com) : Daily NBA News, NBA .. http://bit.ly/i4ZbUm

[GQCoolest]

There's quite a difference in averaging 10/8 as the 5th option on the team, and averaging 14-10 as the 2nd option on the team.

We overpaid for Okafor. No two ways about it. Maybe we felt we had to, but getting out from under Okafor's contract was necessary moving forward. We couldn't continue to commit 25 million dollars to the center position. At the time, Okafor, Nazr, and Diop were all on our roster, we had to do something to move one of them. Nobody (other than us) would be dumb enough to take on the contracts of the latter two. Therefore, Emeka had to go. Tyson was unfortunately injured/unmotivated to play for us, but watching him this year in Dallas, I think the trade could have made more sense if he wanted to stay and if we extended him this year after Nazr expired, but obviously he felt differently about being here.

I'll continue to say that 2013 is the year. Maybe we'll screw up and piss the picks away, who knows? but I'm not going to presuppose it before it happens. There's nothing great about being the Pacers, Raptors, or Sixers. They'll make the playoffs some years, others they won't, but that's what we are. That's where having one quasi-star (Granger, Bosh, Iguodala, Crash) and some mediocre pieces around that star will get you. The Raps held on too long. Granger and Iggy are about a year before where Crash was. We'll see in the next few years what those franchises do with those quasi stars...

[W_HAMILTON]

The only time we ever looked to Okafor as a legitimate scoring threat was his rookie season, and that season the 15/11 he posted was much better than Perkins' BEST season. Most of the time, Okafor was relegated to nothing more than a 4th option in our offense, or whatever you call it when the only time you get to score is off a Felton missed layup.

These are not similar cases, even when you factor in the fact that Perkins is a 5th option while Okafor was a 4th. Okafor gives you 13/10/2 over his career. Perkins gives you 6/6/1. Okafor's worst season is still better than Perkins' best season.

If we overpaid for Okafor, it is because everyone overpays for big men in this league, and Perkins is yet another example. If you can post a double-double most nights, you are probably going to get at least 10m/year. If you can post 10/8, you are still going to probably make at least 7m/year. If we don't want to pay those prices, we should just commit to never doing anything more than signing guys like Theo Ratliff and Kwame Brown for the veteran's minimum and accept the fact that it will probably be a revolving door and they come in, give you maybe 6/6 over the course of the season, then go get paid or get courted by a winning team.

And I don't want to hear a damn thing about Chandler from someone disparaging Okafor. Okafor produced when he was here. Chandler did nothing but receive a paycheck that was even more than we were giving Okafor. If it was a bad idea to pay Okafor 10m-11m for 82 games for good defense and a consistent double-double, paying Chandler what we did for what he did qualifies as the worst decision ever made in the history of mankind. Please don't do that.

[W_HAMILTON]

!

[fatlever]

haha... leave it to an old fashioned okafor debate to bring battery out of hiding.

[captaincrunk]

So you don't like anything about the team, but you like the team. Congratulations.

Even with this talent-depleted roster, there are parts I like. But if you care about a team, you want to see them do what is best, and I have seen them do just the opposite over the past few years. I believe that we have shed talent in order to chase an incredibly unrealistic rebuilding plan, and most likely will find ourselves in this same position in a few years. I believe it is much more likely that the result of this rebuilding effort will result in a team made up of players like Okafor, Diaw, Wallace, Jackson, Felton, etc., in which case, why the hell did we scrap that previous team just to suck for a few years and end up where we left off?

Man that's all I'm looking for. But it doesn't even seem like you want the plan to succeed. I've made several posts like that, that I think rebuilding through the draft will result in a poor product. The key here is that we're not trying to lose! The team is acquiring multiple picks so as to rebuild on the fly without blowing up the entire core. I may not agree with the Wallace trade but at least I can see where it's supposed to be headed.

There are a few key differences between the team now and the team 7 years ago. One, coaching. We do not have a demanding coach who requires certain roster types. The other is an ownership who is less willing to waste money. If we can reach the Okafor/Felton/Wallace level while being fiscally responsible, we have a chance to surpass that level as well.

[captaincrunk]

I think the key to this team will be patience. The Wallace trade was made too hastily, I still think that if we were to trade Wallace we could have at least gotten a decent prospect in return as well as those picks. You put Batum in there instead of Dante Cunningham and you've got a happy Crunk.

[GQCoolest]

The only time we ever looked to Okafor as a legitimate scoring threat was his rookie season, and that season the 15/11 he posted was much better than Perkins' BEST season. Most of the time, Okafor was relegated to nothing more than a 4th option in our offense, or whatever you call it when the only time you get to score is off a Felton missed layup.

These are not similar cases, even when you factor in the fact that Perkins is a 5th option while Okafor was a 4th. Okafor gives you 13/10/2 over his career. Perkins gives you 6/6/1. Okafor's worst season is still better than Perkins' best season.

If we overpaid for Okafor, it is because everyone overpays for big men in this league, and Perkins is yet another example. If you can post a double-double most nights, you are probably going to get at least 10m/year. If you can post 10/8, you are still going to probably make at least 7m/year. If we don't want to pay those prices, we should just commit to never doing anything more than signing guys like Theo Ratliff and Kwame Brown for the veteran's minimum and accept the fact that it will probably be a revolving door and they come in, give you maybe 6/6 over the course of the season, then go get paid or get courted by a winning team.

And I don't want to hear a damn thing about Chandler from someone disparaging Okafor. Okafor produced when he was here. Chandler did nothing but receive a paycheck that was even more than we were giving Okafor. If it was a bad idea to pay Okafor 10m-11m for 82 games for good defense and a consistent double-double, paying Chandler what we did for what he did qualifies as the worst decision ever made in the history of mankind. Please don't do that.

I agree, Chandler sucked here, but paying Chandler for 1 year (and 2 max) over paying Okafor for 6 years (until he will be past his prime) is way better. You know that. We made the trade because Okafor's contract was absurdly long, and now New Orleans couldn't trade him and would take whatever they can get for him. He's the 4th option there too, and his stats are worse than they were here, and that's with Chris Paul getting him the ball. If he was still here, he'd be just another overblown contract on our roster. He's an average center in this league. Slightly better than Kendrick Perkins, and certainly not worth the money he'll be getting in years 4, 5, and 6, whereas by the time year 4 rolls around for Perkins, he's gone.

I'm glad we traded him, and I'm glad we don't have his albatross of a contract on our roster. I just wish we'd shown Okafor the same type of resistance we showed Felton after Okafor rejected 13 million/year the year before.

[doc.end]

Has captaincrunk replaced Battery as the go-to "argue with everybody" guy?

I guess so. Anyway lay off from Ham, everybody. He is here from like the beginning. I know he can rough some feathers especially if Felton was your idol but withou him it wouldn't be the same.

Ham, if you fell I am mad at you I am not. I'm just tired of how the trade is valued only by if we are better now or not. Well I understand, if someone would do taht kind of trade in NHL I wouldn't go through surface to see through the deal and would think it aws a bad move; but i care about NBA bball.
Have we improved (like are we better right now)? No
Are we going to be (significally) better in 2-3 years? Aklmost cetainly yes.
I expected you would look at it more this way, although I understand the meanwhile seasons could be painful and probably will, at least it is not like under Larry Brown when we sucked, were unwatchable and nowhere to go. I donť have the local ties so i guess it is easier to swallow for me, although Crash was pretty much the reason I have a been a fan and if he has had such a good season like the last I would be angry and sad (much more) and it would be hard to try to stay optimistic like I always try to be. That's why I am tired of all those casual fans bitching about nearly everythng, especially why we waive UPS (that's not directed to you, rather BCP and such communities).

[doc.end]

[quote="Battery"][/quote]
Glad you stick around after all.

[doc.end]

haha... leave it to an old fashioned okafor debate to bring battery out of hiding.

Yeah, I felt like when someone is breathing to the telephone sometimes. I was even thinking about trying to lurk him out somehow. Like by bumping cathouse draft thread with his favourite one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9kfcEga0lk

[fatlever]

Okafor / Diaw / Wallace / Jackson / Felton / Augustin would not only be in the playoffs, they'd be in that second-tier of playoff teams fighting with ATL for positioning.

that team is still not better than boston, miami, orlando or chicago (and maybe not new york or atlanta) and instead of having a payroll of 64 mil we would probably be closer to 72 mil, which puts us 4 mil over the luxury tax, so consider it 76 mil in salary.

dont get me wrong, i would love to add okafor and felton to our current team, but i sure cant blame the owner for not wanting to spend 76 mil on a team that would still, at best, be a 5th seed and most likely lose in the 1st round.

[Marvel]

Has captaincrunk replaced Battery as the go-to "argue with everybody" guy?

I'm pretty sure it's Batts 2nd backup profile in disguise.

[Jaruff]

Captain Crunkelicious you need to get yourself a pair of tights and a cape. You're like the superhero of angry college kids swooping in on every message board to knock out every local passionate fan.



Whenever I read one of your posts I hear the theme song from Greatest American Hero playing in the background...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ZUSQQdoS4[/youtube]


Loved this show when I was growing up. So bad yet so funny.....

Mind = Blown

It's been a sad state of affairs for us bashers since DJ and Hendo have done well.

[amcoolio]

Hamilton....saying something....good...about...Felton????????????????????????????????????????????????????????



????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[W_HAMILTON]

dont get me wrong, i would love to add okafor and felton to our current team, but i sure cant blame the owner for not wanting to spend 76 mil on a team that would still, at best, be a 5th seed and most likely lose in the 1st round.

There's nothing else to say. If you want a team with that caliber of talent, you are going to have to pay for it.

Yes, I would like a franchise player. Odds are its not going to happen. Odds are we are yet again going to assemble a nice collection of talent that we are going to have to pay to keep, all the while they probably won't be championship contenders like teams with LeBron or Howard or Rose on them. So then what? Do we throw it all away once again?