Off Topic III

[W_HAMILTON]

Instead of worrying about Okafor's FUTURE salary, we should have been worrying about the current salary we were paying to subpar centers. That was always the problem. Again, if you had paid Okafor his salary and taken a "backup center by committee" approach each season (getting guys like Ratliff and Kwame, hell maybe even Przybilla for salaries around the veteran's minimum), you would have been basically devoting 1/5th of the salary cap to the center position, and you'd be set. Do you realize the hurdles we had to jump through over the past few seasons regarding our center position? Do you realize the financial resources wasted on the center position, just because we apparently weren't satisfied by Okafor's 13-15ppg/10-11pg/2bpg?

As for the difference in the three, there's a helluva lot more. You brought up this per-36 stat before to degrade Okafor, without realizing a lot of the crap centers in this league can't even stay on the court 36 minutes, much less consistently contribute over that span. Per-36, Nazr puts up 16/11...too bad he'd probably die if we played him for that many minutes two games in a row. Okafor had played in something like 300+ games in a row, whereas Chandler missed half the season, spent 1/4 of the season "recovering from his injuries," and the other 1/4 just sucking.

Kwame is just the new flavor of the month. At one point, literally every center -- yes, including Diop -- was bragged about as a comparable replacement for Okafor. This is no different. Kwame has put up like six double-doubles, while starting 28 games. He ain't no Okafor. And that's probably a good thing, because if he were, we'd probably have to pay him at least 8m/year and we'd hate him, too.

[captaincrunk]

Nazr > Primoz and Herrmann. The contract was obviously pretty bad but other than that it wasn't so horrible.

in 12 games as a starter (end of march - end of season in 2006-7 season) herrmann averaged 19.6ppg and 5.7rpg on 58% fg. primoz sucked, but he was an expiring contract. taking on nazr prevented us from having any kind of cap room in summer of 2008. not to mention the fact that nazr spent a year in LBs dog house and barely played in 2008-9 season. AND we let the pistons get out of nazr's horrible contract. he was rotting on their bench and had 4 years left. we didnt get nearly enough in return for taking on nazr's 4 years. it was a panic trade to appease a crap coach.

Where is Herrmann now? Don't know? Exactly.

[fatlever]

Nazr > Primoz and Herrmann. The contract was obviously pretty bad but other than that it wasn't so horrible.

in 12 games as a starter (end of march - end of season in 2006-7 season) herrmann averaged 19.6ppg and 5.7rpg on 58% fg. primoz sucked, but he was an expiring contract. taking on nazr prevented us from having any kind of cap room in summer of 2008. not to mention the fact that nazr spent a year in LBs dog house and barely played in 2008-9 season. AND we let the pistons get out of nazr's horrible contract. he was rotting on their bench and had 4 years left. we didnt get nearly enough in return for taking on nazr's 4 years. it was a panic trade to appease a crap coach.

Where is Herrmann now? Don't know? Exactly.

we went back to europe. he had an offer to stay in detroit where he had become a valuable role player. herrmann chose to leave the nba.

[captaincrunk]

KG just owned Al Jefferson. Got all in his head. Al Jeff called for the ball the next play, KG made him travel. Nice.

[captaincrunk]

we went back to europe. he had an offer to stay in detroit where he had become a valuable role player. herrmann chose to leave the nba.

we? He? At any rate, that's hardly the move a skilled euro typically makes...

[fatlever]

Instead of worrying about Okafor's FUTURE salary, we should have been worrying about the current salary we were paying to subpar centers. That was always the problem. Again, if you had paid Okafor his salary and taken a "backup center by committee" approach each season (getting guys like Ratliff and Kwame, hell maybe even Przybilla for salaries around the veteran's minimum), you would have been basically devoting 1/5th of the salary cap to the center position, and you'd be set. Do you realize the hurdles we had to jump through over the past few seasons regarding our center position? Do you realize the financial resources wasted on the center position, just because we apparently weren't satisfied by Okafor's 13-15ppg/10-11pg/2bpg?

As for the difference in the three, there's a helluva lot more. You brought up this per-36 stat before to degrade Okafor, without realizing a lot of the crap centers in this league can't even stay on the court 36 minutes, much less consistently contribute over that span. Per-36, Nazr puts up 16/11...too bad he'd probably die if we played him for that many minutes two games in a row. Okafor had played in something like 300+ games in a row, whereas Chandler missed half the season, spent 1/4 of the season "recovering from his injuries," and the other 1/4 just sucking.

Kwame is just the new flavor of the month. At one point, literally every center -- yes, including Diop -- was bragged about as a comparable replacement for Okafor. This is no different. Kwame has put up like six double-doubles, while starting 28 games. He ain't no Okafor. And that's probably a good thing, because if he were, we'd probably have to pay him at least 8m/year and we'd hate him, too.

as i mentioned in another thread, the decisions to trade for mediocre centers happend before okafor left. we traded for nazr and diop while okafor was on the roster. we added 14 million in salary to find centers to back okafor up or compete with him for minutes.

i brought up per 36 because kwame spent first half of the year on bench or getting over ankle injury. as a starter kwame averages 28 minutes per game only 5 less than okafor. okafor doesnt have anyone behind him so there is zero competition for center minutes in new orleans. kwame just played 45 minutes so i dont think there is an issue about his ability to play heavier minutes. that being said, you are right, if kwame was making 8 million a year i would totally hate him. but at 1 mil he is a freaking steal. he gives you 80% of what okafor did at 10% of the salary.

i will always give okafor credit for being consistent and staying healthy. dude is a rock. but he is an overpaid rock. and will be more over paid every year for the next 4. its not like he will get any better. he hasnt improved since the first day he came into the league. he is a slightly above average center who can give you a decent 30 minutes a night.

and that certainly want me bragging about diop as a replacement for okafor. i happen to think diop is the biggest pile of garbage in the nba.

put okafor on this team in place of kwame and it wouldnt make a bit of difference. maybe 3 games? maybe just enough to squeak by the pacers for the 8th seed.

[captaincrunk]

Instead of worrying about Okafor's FUTURE salary, we should have been worrying about the current salary we were paying to subpar centers. That was always the problem. Again, if you had paid Okafor his salary and taken a "backup center by committee" approach each season (getting guys like Ratliff and Kwame, hell maybe even Przybilla for salaries around the veteran's minimum), you would have been basically devoting 1/5th of the salary cap to the center position, and you'd be set. Do you realize the hurdles we had to jump through over the past few seasons regarding our center position? Do you realize the financial resources wasted on the center position, just because we apparently weren't satisfied by Okafor's 13-15ppg/10-11pg/2bpg?

As for the difference in the three, there's a helluva lot more. You brought up this per-36 stat before to degrade Okafor, without realizing a lot of the crap centers in this league can't even stay on the court 36 minutes, much less consistently contribute over that span. Per-36, Nazr puts up 16/11...too bad he'd probably die if we played him for that many minutes two games in a row. Okafor had played in something like 300+ games in a row, whereas Chandler missed half the season, spent 1/4 of the season "recovering from his injuries," and the other 1/4 just sucking.
Centers are always overpaid. It's because they're too valuable to not be paid high.
Kwame is just the new flavor of the month. At one point, literally every center -- yes, including Diop -- was bragged about as a comparable replacement for Okafor. This is no different. Kwame has put up like six double-doubles, while starting 28 games. He ain't no Okafor. And that's probably a good thing, because if he were, we'd probably have to pay him at least 8m/year and we'd hate him, too.

as i mentioned in another thread, the decisions to trade for mediocre centers happend before okafor left. we traded for nazr and diop while okafor was on the roster. we added 14 million in salary to find centers to back okafor up or compete with him for minutes.

i brought up per 36 because kwame spent first half of the year on bench or getting over ankle injury. as a starter kwame averages 28 minutes per game only 5 less than okafor. okafor doesnt have anyone behind him so there is zero competition for center minutes in new orleans. kwame just played 45 minutes so i dont think there is an issue about his ability to play heavier minutes. that being said, you are right, if kwame was making 8 million a year i would totally hate him. but at 1 mil he is a freaking steal. he gives you 80% of what okafor did at 10% of the salary.

i will always give okafor credit for being consistent and staying healthy. dude is a rock. but he is an overpaid rock. and will be more over paid every year for the next 4. its not like he will get any better. he hasnt improved since the first day he came into the league. he is a slightly above average center who can give you a decent 30 minutes a night.

and that certainly want me bragging about diop as a replacement for okafor. i happen to think diop is the biggest pile of garbage in the nba.

put okafor on this team in place of kwame and it wouldnt make a bit of difference. maybe 3 games? maybe just enough to squeak by the pacers for the 8th seed.

[fatlever]

anyone watching survivor this season? more cute girls than usual. lets hope they dont all get voted off early.

[Jaruff]

They're all too skinny.

Third one gets my vote though.

[captaincrunk]

They're all too skinny.

Third one gets my vote though.

Yeah Really flat chested. I don't mind it, I know a lot of guys like that. But damn, get some variety!

[Diop]

I'm ashamed to admit that we are still watching Jersey Shore.
Its like a car crash, you just can't stop looking.

[W_HAMILTON]

as i mentioned in another thread, the decisions to trade for mediocre centers happend before okafor left. we traded for nazr and diop while okafor was on the roster. we added 14 million in salary to find centers to back okafor up or compete with him for minutes.

And they didn't. That was the problem, we should have accepted what Okafor gave us and signed cheap backup centers each season, knowing that we would mostly only need them for spot minutes here and there. The more trades we made for centers to replace (or "compete") with Okafor, the worst our center position became.

okafor doesnt have anyone behind him so there is zero competition for center minutes in new orleans.

And the only reason Kwame has/had competition for minutes is because he's not good enough. Kwame had to compete with Mohammed for minutes, but that's because Mohammed could outplay him. Okafor also had to compete with Mohammed, but he still averaged 30mpg+ because Okafor was better than him. You are faulting Okafor for being good. When Okafor is being backed up by Aaron Gray, there's zero competition. If Kwame Brown was being backed up by Aaron Gray, he'd probably lose his starting spot. Gray's "per-36" is 9/10, so apparently he can't suck that much, huh?

he hasnt improved since the first day he came into the league. he is a slightly above average center who can give you a decent 30 minutes a night.

It's not easy to improve when you come into the league breaking records held by Shaq, and finishing like 5th in rpg and 4th in double-doubles. But he still did, improving his FG% by almost 15% over the past few years. He never became a huge scorer, but that doesn't take away from what he does provide.

put okafor on this team in place of kwame and it wouldnt make a bit of difference. maybe 3 games? maybe just enough to squeak by the pacers for the 8th seed.

Okafor / Diaw / Wallace / Jackson / Felton / Augustin would not only be in the playoffs, they'd be in that second-tier of playoff teams fighting with ATL for positioning.

[captaincrunk]

I'm ashamed to admit that we are still watching Jersey Shore.
Its like a car crash, you just can't stop looking.

That's why I just took a detour.

[fatlever]

I'm ashamed to admit that we are still watching Jersey Shore.
Its like a car crash, you just can't stop looking.

haha, i'm right there with you. i love that trash, even though i hate all of them except paulie and vinny.

ronnie and sammie have ruined this season. not enough paulie.

[doc.end]

anyone watching survivor this season? more cute girls than usual. lets hope they dont all get voted off early.

Not sure if serious, last season was better from that perspective. Other than Christina and Stephanie, they get little air time anyway. (i now what are you going to point out, lol)

[doc.end]

we went back to europe. he had an offer to stay in detroit where he had become a valuable role player. herrmann chose to leave the nba.

we? He? At any rate, that's hardly the move a skilled euro typically makes...

Fat is his groupie, didn't you know?

[doc.end]

That being sad current season is overall better than the last one and most importantly don't miss current seasion of The Amazing Race, the "unfinished business" cast is great. Nice places (Aussies have to watch), lots of great quotes too.

[fatlever]

moved to other thead

[fatlever]

lets move the okafor/team debate to the other thread. i'm gonna repost this over there. thanks.

[amcoolio]

I don't see how Russell makes it to the merge, with the way he is being edited.

This season's cast isn't the strongest. Most of the females are dumb nobodies, and for that girl that liked Matt to cry over him getting booted out last week was cringing