Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[WeThe2019Champs]

What if we get a high pick and the next best players are pf's, what does BC do?

[DreamTeam09]

Anyone care to tell me what the downsides are to Fredette's game? He reminds me of Deron Williams in college.. don't crucify me if I'm way off on this

Nah hes not on a deron level of play. Thats way to high of a reach for jimmer. He'll be reddick at the point in the nba. I think he has a lot of swag to his game tho making his ceiling a little higher then most would give credit for.

[Reignman]

A little insight into Kyrie Irving's rehab sessions:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzvJzo&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Thanks for posting this raptorsingh!

His last sentence "whether I come back this season or somewhere else in the future, I will play ball again" sounds like a guy that knows he's going to go high in the draft and will declare.

I never understood why people thought he'd return next season, risk further injury and possibly lose some of his stock in a stacked 2012 draft.

BTW, same applies to any of the high picks including Barnes, I highly doubt any of these guys return to college.

[fredericklove]

A little insight into Kyrie Irving's rehab sessions:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vnFgzvJzo&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Thanks for posting this raptorsingh!

His last sentence "whether I come back this season or somewhere else in the future, I will play ball again" sounds like a guy that knows he's going to go high in the draft and will declare.

I never understood why people thought he'd return next season, risk further injury and possibly lose some of his stock in a stacked 2012 draft.

BTW, same applies to any of the high picks including Barnes, I highly doubt any of these guys return to college.

That message is so obvious lmao he's definitely going to the draft now, smart choice
HB should enter because he still has the upside to be top 5 pick and also there are 4-5 teams on the bottom are in need of a scoring SF.

[RaptorReloaded]

How bad is his injury? Will it effect how he plays in the future?

[fredericklove]

What if we get a high pick and the next best players are pf's, what does BC do?

High pick as in how high? if it's top 5 pick and assuming we have the 4th or 5th pick and missing out on Irving and PJ...Sully might be taken in top 3 too...then we can use our pick on one of these 3: TJ, Dwill and HB (if he declares).

Top 3 pick (Irving, PJ and Sully), let's assume we have the 3rd pick and if Irving and PJ are both gone then we probably take Dwill (I hope not). Using a 3rd pick on TJ is abit high...and who knows, maybe BC is a big believer in HB's potential and take him at 3rd pick.

Even if we are left with no choice but PFs, we take the BPA (Sully, or Kanter). And decides what to do later. Play bargs and Sully/Kanter with Ed coming off the bench or bargs and Ed with Sully/Kanter coming off the bench. If it doesn't work out, we can use one of them as trading chip.

[TheRealDeal]

I was going to post this in the "why do raps fans love Kyrie so much?" thread (thanks for the laughs Sunny) but it got so long that I didn't want to waste my time on a thread that will get locked.

Kryie is a can't miss prospect with star potential at a crucial position. He could fill our PG slot for the next 10+ years in a league that's being overtaken by lightning quick, do-it-all guards like Rose, Westbrook, Wall, CP3, Deron, Rondo, Tyreke (1-2), Monta (1-2) and Jennings. Guards like Nash, Kidd, Arenas, Tony Parker, Billups, Baron, Bibby, Jameer, Mo Williams and Devin Harris have been giving us problems for years. The Raptors have never had a great PG so it's not a shocker that we've never had a great team. Stud PG's attract other good players, make the guys you already have better and should be responsible for leading the team. They are the ones with the ball the majority of the time so having a good one is essential, a star could turn your franchise around ala Rose. I don't even feel the need to dissect Irving's game because I'd take him on pure potential alone.

He's proven to be a character guy with leadership qualities to go along with his extraordinary talent. He reminds me of Kevin Durant in terms of personality, work ethic, relationship with the media and the potential to attract the casual fan. I have no doubt that Kyrie would embrace everything about Toronto. He'd be making a lot of money to be unhappy but aside from that he's an intelligent, level headed guy that will just be excited to ball again. He'll want to prove why he's worthy of being a top-3 guy and we'll give him all the PT he needs to do so. He plays an exciting brand of basketball that makes any game he plays in fun to watch and does it without trying to do too much or steal the spotlight.

The fact that Kyrie went to Duke says a lot about him as a person. Coach K is a hard nose, work your ass off, no excuses and grind it out type coach who demands only the best from his players. They are one of the top academics institutions in the country so you aren't getting in unless you're smart (regardless of how good your game is) and you won't play if you aren't keeping up with the classes. This leaves little to no time for the Dukie's to party since the workload from basketball and school overtakes their lives. Throw in the fact that Nolan Smith was already a solid Duke starter for a national title and it makes the Duke choice even ballsier for Irv. It's hard to believe that Coach K wanted the ball in Kyrie's hands from day one now that we see how well Smith has played this year ( KI had 9 assists in the Duke opener). He should be happy with his choice because Duke has an incredible med school so I'm sure he's getting the best treatment possible for his toe. I'm sure he picked up a thing or two from Coach K and past Blue Devils as well.

There are other potential stars in this draft but they all have more question marks than Irving at this point. Kyrie was playing extremely well when he went down so the injury could actually help his stock. We'll never know if Kyrie would've struggled at at times this season or fallen apart in the Final Four. It's not at all likely but I hope it causes other GM's to think before selecting him. He also can't increase his value unless he impresses in workouts. I wouldn't expect him to dominate the workouts after being out for so long, but if he does it'll be all the more impressive. I hold a sliver of hope that the few GM's picking ahead of us will be bothered by the risk involved with taking a guy who is coming off a serious injury. Some of them haven't even had a chance to see him play competitively in person.

We'll have to thank our lucky stars if Irving falls to 2-3 or even 4. Ed Davis' injury made it possible for us to steal him at #13 last year. Davis was once considered a top-5 guy. While he was out with an injury other prospects like Gordon Hayward impressed in the tourney and played their way ahead of him. DeRozan was a steal at #9 as well, considering where he was supposed to go. I never thought we had a chance to draft him when he was top-3 in mocks coming out of H.S. He struggled early at USC and it created a firestorm that lead to him eventually slipping to us. DD ended up proving the doubters wrong by winning the Pac-10 tourney MVP but by then everyone was infatuated by system players dominating at the college level. Thabeet, Harden, Flynn, Curry (deserved) and Jordan HIll all passed him with stellar play in the NCAA.

We should all be cheering for the top prospects to dominate for the next month. If Terrence Jones, Perry Jones, Harrison Barnes, Derrick Williams or Jared Sullinger go out and absolutely dominate in March they're going to make a lot of people think (if they haven't already). There's a good chance that one of them will take their team on a run in the conference/NCAA tournaments. If Jared Sullinger wins Ohio State an NCAA championship it'd be hard to explain to Cavs fans why they didn't trade down to pick him or just grab him #1-2. If Terrence Jones goes out and owns the SEC tournament, followed up by a run in the big dance, he's going to gain a ton of supporters. The same can be said about P-Jones (NIT), Barnes and even D-Will. Who knows maybe Kahn is obsessed with Enes Kanter right now?

Terrence Jones is a guy who has really impressed me this season. I have personal reasons to cheer for Barnes and I want Irving but I don't come on here to spread bias, I just call it like I see it with the Raps future as my only concern. To me T-Jones looks like an NBA player stuck playing college ball. He makes things look effortless and the NBA style should suit his game well if he continues to refine his skills. Some people think he's better suited for the 4 but he seems agile enough to play the 3. He has good enough handles and the athleticism to score at the 3 imo. His size would come in handy against bigger 3's and if he can guard 4's then we have ourselves a flexible hybrid-type player. We could run our forward rotation like the Lakers (depending on match-up's) with Jones as Odom 3/4, Davis as Gasol 4/5, Bargs staying at 5 and Amir backing up the 4/5. We could get a defensive minded backup 3 on the bench if Jones needs help plus there's the option to trade Bargs for a defensive C & depth is possible, but I feel like he's staying... at least he's still great for the future of our offense.

I'm not ready to decide who I think the next best guy after Kyrie is because we don't have all the info yet. March madness is when teams/players step it up to an even higher level of play. The competition is tougher, the spotlight is brighter and the payback for how they play is millions dollars and the glory of winning for your state, school and hometown. I realize that a team wouldn't pass on a sure-fire #1 prospect because they already have a PG. But what if he isn't the clear choice in June? Teams like the Wiz (Wall), Kings (Evans 1/2), Wolves (Rubio-Flynn) and Nets (Deron) aren't in desperate need of a lead guard to control the ball like we are. Other GM's are scouting the same top guys we are and and have probably fell in love with a few. If those prospects can confirm the team's beliefs by proving it in March while Kyrie sits on the bench then perhaps we get lucky.

Thankfully we'll have one of those first few picks, so let's say the Wizards for example aren't 100% sold on Irving and know that Perry Jones is their guy but feel like he'll be available at the Raps #3 pick. They know that we want Kyrie and that he'll go the Cavs at 2 if they don't take him #1. If it's obvious that Perry (just an example) won't fall past the top 3 then they'd be forced to trade with us. I'm not sure of the cost but it'd be a win-win for both teams if we gave them something to exchange picks. I don't think the Miami pick would have been nearly enough but it couldn't have hurt. Especially on draft night when teams are hopeful that the guy they have their eyes on will fall. Who knows but I'm not really to place ALL of my Kyrie hopes on the lotto. It'd rather see someone overtake him so we're sure that at least the top 3 are desirable players with equally high value to different teams.


This could be our third consecutive draft pick that has a major positive impact on the future on our franchise. Looking at how sick the potential top 10 is next year, we're likely to end up with four young studs that will make this team at least competitive and fun to watch. Watching a young & talented roster grow together beats patching holes every year with journeymen players that keep us afloat but don't get us anywhere. I'm happy BC is embracing the rebuild and it's starting to show with our record.

[RaptorReloaded]

Great effing read RealDeal!! Highly enjoyed that. I'm also praying for Irving. I just hope Stern and Cleveland dont F it up for us.

[Kaizen]

That was a great post.

[Kaizen]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?nam ... id=6171205

Highest risers

Derrick Williams, F, Arizona Wildcats
7/1/10 Top 100 Rank: 26
3/1/11 Top 100 Rank: 4

We just did an in-depth update on Williams last week, but his stunning rise warrants even more words of praise. This is a guy who was considered a B-list prospect, a tweener, not an elite athlete and part of a dying program, but this season he's been absolutely terrific. This past week, Williams struggled a bit in losses to the UCLA Bruins and USC Trojans, but he's still considered one of the top prospects in this year's draft.

Jimmer Fredette, PG, BYU Cougars
7/1/10 Top 100 Rank: 36
3/1/11 Top 100 Rank: 15

Fredette began the season as a bubble first-rounder. He flirted with the NBA draft last year and couldn't get anyone to bite. They complained he was too small and that he lacked explosiveness. He's still small. He's still not the world's greatest athlete. But what Fredette has done this season is remarkable. Not only is he a serious candidate for player of the year, but he's proved that he can get his shot off against anyone, in any situation. His 23-point, nine-assist game on national TV against the San Diego State Aztecs on Saturday was the icing on the cake. The competition was ranked No. 4 in the country, the atmosphere was electric, the crowd was hostile and the Aztecs did everything they could to disrupt Fredette. Not only did Fredette play well, but more importantly, he got BYU its 26th win of the season and a possible No. 1 seed in the tournament. NBA teams want winners, and, bottom line, Fredette is a winner.

Biggest sliders

Harrison Barnes, F, North Carolina Tar Heels
7/1/10 Top 100 Rank: 1
3/1/11 Top 100 Rank: 7

Barnes' saga has been well documented. He came into the season as a consensus No. 1 pick in the draft. Some scouts went as far as to compare him to Kobe Bryant. His current comparison? Marvin Williams. Ouch. Some scouts still hold out hope that Barnes will break out of his shell and reclaim his spot atop the draft board, but with every game it looks more and more like we'll have to wait another year to see that Barnes.

Josh Selby, G, Kansas Jayhawks
7/1/10 Top 100 Rank: 6
3/1/11 Top 100 Rank: 19

Selby has struggled all year. First, it was a result of his NCAA suspension. Then he dealt with injuries. Then questions surfaced about how he fit in coach Bill Self's system. Whatever the problem is for Selby, scouts no longer see him as a lock for the lottery, let alone the top six of the draft. Selby most likely will be better in the NBA, as he hasn't had a lot of chances to do his thing at Kansas. But with each passing mediocre game, you have to ask whether we just had him overrated.

[Kaizen]

For college basketball fans:

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=14566442&nid=272

Brandon Davis of BYU has been suspended for the rest of the season. He played 27 minutes in their win on Saturday so that could really hurt their chances at making a run in the NCAA tournament.

[PowerPhil15]

There are a lot of people on the kyrie bandwagon and its for an obvious reason. Hes an amazing player and could immediately impact our franchise by giving us a pg that we have desperately needed since Jose had his drop off.

I would like to mention that, its not at all a bad thing if we win a few more games than expected and miss out on kyrie this year, and here is why:

Many fans including me believe we will draft top 8 two years in a row which is great, and here are a list of positions available from NBAdraft for 2011:

1 Derrick Williams SF/PF
2 Kyrie Irving PG
3 Perry Jones SF
4 Jared Sullinger PF
5 Enes Kanter PF/C
6 Harrison Barnes SF
7 Terrence Jones SF
8 Donatas Motiejunas PF

Now here is the 2012:

1 Austin Rivers 6-4 189 PG/SG Duke HSSr.
2 Anthony Davis 6-9 187 SF Kentucky HSSr.
3 Quincy Miller 6-9 200 SF Baylor HSSr.
4 James McAdoo 6-8 210 SF/PF North Carolina HSSr.
5 Marquis Teague 6-2 165 PG Kentucky HSSr.
6 Michael Gilchrist 6-6 216 SF Kentucky HSSr.
7 Khris Middleton 6-7 220 SG/SF Texas A&M So.
8 LeBryan Nash 6-7 212 SF Oklahoma State

Maalik waynes at 11 and Cory Joseph at 14 as well

Toronto Lineup now:

Calderon/Bayless
Derozen/Barbosa
Johnson/Weems
Amir/Ed
Bargnani/Ajinka

Summary: THERE ARE NO CENTRES 2012 in the top 10, not even the top 20. However there are 2 pgs in the top 5 and one at 11 and one at 14. Therefore, I think it would be instinctive to draft a centre in 2011 like Kanter, especially since we most likely will miss kyrie anyway, wait for jose to have his expiring contract, and draft a pg in 2012(lets say teague who is jeff teagues brother and supposedly incredibly better).

[Kaizen]

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p= ... 88&yr=2012

There are a lot of centers in the 2012 high school class.

[PowerPhil15]

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2012

There are a lot of centers in the 2012 high school class.

i dont think they are top 10 though. So if we draft a centre with our second round pick, it will probably be for potential and likely will bust or it will take longer to develop him

[hops_88]

Whats going on with Andre Drummond? I thought he was able to declare next year for the draft. But he isn't on the 2012 list on any of the draft sites. Hes in grade 12 this year is he not? Hopefully someone can clear this up for me.

[Kaizen]

He would have to re-classify to be able to enter the 2012 draft, He has not decided if he will do that yet, At this point he would not even enter college until 2012 and the 2013 draft.

[hops_88]

He would have to re-classify to be able to enter the 2012 draft, He has not decided if he will do that yet, At this point he would not even enter college until 2012 and the 2013 draft.

Ugh, really? I was hoping he would declare next year. Being in the race with a Center prospect would be exciting. Ideal situation would be a lineup of

Irving/Bayless
Derozan
J.Johnson/Kleiza
Bargnani/Davis
Drummond

give or take some tweaks around the 2 spot and bayless. Thats a great lineup. I think i'll pick up praying.

[fredericklove]

Whats going on with Andre Drummond? I thought he was able to declare next year for the draft. But he isn't on the 2012 list on any of the draft sites. Hes in grade 12 this year is he not? Hopefully someone can clear this up for me.

He still hasn't declared on which school yet, there's rumors saying he'll go to Uconn but like the dude says, he probably won't go to college yet.

He's shown here on rival.com (that's the only site that has him ranked in the 2012 class)

http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecru ... ls150/2012

[baulderdash77]

With the way that JJ is playing I'm starting to think he's exactly the type of SF that we need. We have really needed a stat stuffing SF to complement Bargnani. If he can work on that corner 3 then we could be set.

It becomes more imperitive to get Irving now than ever before as our biggest need appears to now be a PG to develop into our franchise guy. Jose is playing lights out but he's older than our core.

[SkywalkerAC]

for once in our forsaken franchise history, i think we're in a damn good position to actually take the good ol BPA. our frontcourt has depth, despite having two gangly international youngsters as our only "true" centres. with the addition of JJ we're actually pretty big and burly and reasonably skilled once Kleiza gets back. Demar is a legit starting 2-guard. Barbosa noice off the bench. Jose a great vet PG.

you really can go any direction. we all know that the addition of a point guard is the easiest way to change the direction of our team. we also know we still need a star wing to go with DD on the wing. we also need to get big and tougher inside.

i'm confident we come out with a guy that can be an effective rotation guy in the top 5. we can afford to add talent to any position (though I'd avoid small wing players).

i have no doubt that a Kanter/Bargnani/Davis/Amir would be a top 8 eastern big-man rotation. I think Barnes will become a great-shooting SF. i'd love to see if Perry could be molded into a defensive specialist at the 3. Irving would revolutionize the team. T-Jo gives us even more size at the 3. Jonas gives us a top big man rotation.

also, anyone else think that Kanter will come into the league with a well-developed shooting game? Enes really strikes me as guaranteed value. he'll be coming in with an NBA body, NBA rebounding ability, and a refined post game. i don't think he's undersized in today's NBA (a Kanter/Bargs combo is far from undersized) and I'm not concerned about the knees of a young player who gets a year of training to get his body right.