Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[number15]

realgm.com:

Quote: Harrison Barnes hit another clutch shot to give No. 13 North Carolina a 72-70 win over Florida State, guaranteeing the Tar Heels an opportunity to play for an outright ACC championship against Duke on Saturday.

Barnes is averaging 17.9 points and 6.4 rebounds during UNC's past 10 games.

Tar Heels coach Roy Wiliams called for an NBA-style isolation play at the top of the key and Barnes decided to pull the trigger from long-range.

It was the latest bit of evidence that suggests Williams trusts Barnes immensely, and another sign that Barnes is beginning to fulfill his potential.

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i personally couldn't care less about Harrison Barnes. I see him as a future bust or at best a marginal player at the NBA level...... however as a RAPS fan i gotta cheer for him

The better he does, the more chance, Cleveland will gain interest in the guy considered the clear #1 pick not too long ago

no one else is likely to take Irving in the top 5 other than us, based on need.... unless the Wolves still have hots for another PG

as all im gonna say is, "Go Harrison!!!!!!"

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I heard Vesely is pretty good at posting up smaller guys, could be good at SF considering that most guys are not as big as he, at 6'11''.

[dagger]

Euroleague action today.

Big game for small forward Jan Vesely as Partizan Belgrade hung on for a win - it's last game in the competition as it didn't make the playoff cut.

Vesely had 23 points on 9/12 shooting (including 2/4 behind the arc, 3/6 at the FT line). Also had six boards.

He's been coming on strong, may reclaim his status as a top 5-6 pick in the next mocks.

Hmm pretty good performance but I'd still take Barnes over Vesley.

Have you seen Vesely play? I'm not saying he's better than Barnes, but I've seen them both play, and right now Vesely will give you more different things, like rebounding, shotblocking (2 today). They both have three point shooting, Barnes is a little better at the free throw line. Barnes is a little smaller, maybe quicker, while Vesely is three inches taller. Both have reputations as a good defender, Barnes with above average quickness, Vesely with good lateral quicks plus length. Barnes has been tentative at times, but may be finding his game now. Vesely is an intense kid with tremendous ups, a big advantage for someone who is 6'11" at the small forward position. He started slowly, but has been accelerating the past few weeks. Both are playing under a lot of pressure. Barnes is expected to carry UNC while Vesely is carrying a Euroleague team. Barnes isn't particularly intense, but he's efficient, while Vesely is very intense. If you did the Hoffa/chicken workout, I'd bet on Vesely to get the chicken over Barnes.



This is one where maybe, maybe, Barnes is better, but it's close enough that you'd probably say pick 'em and let the real scouts decide the difference.

And of course if it's that close, you have to consider the Euro is the better bet to stay long-term in Toronto (although we don't have that large a Czech community).

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Barnes has great character, reportedly - I think as long as we show progress, and are winning, I don't think we have to worry about a guy like him leaving, if he in fact reaches star status.

Vesely is good though.

[fredericklove]

I don't think I'll feel foolish at all if Barnes does end up better than Williams, Sullinger and the Joneses. It will be more like feeling disappointed after knowing you folded before seeing the turn and river that would have won you the game. I honestly don't see how anyone can justify picking Barnes 2nd overall based on what he's shown until now, but if you are right, I'll send Colangelo an email to hire you as a scout

What he's shown and what his stats say are two different things. When it comes to prospects you have to be able differentiate.

Blake Griffin wasn't the next coming in his freshmen year.

Tim Duncan wasn't the next coming in his freshmen year.

Paul Pierce fell in the draft because of the same things Barnes is going through.

Vince Carter was Jamieson's side kick at UNC.

I could go on and on about players that became much better than they looked in their freshmen year.

What I'm looking at is the skills that Barnes has at his disposal and his ceiling if he improves on his weaknesses. He looks like the 2nd best prospect to me.

And you won't have to refer me as a scout, I'd bet money Barnes goes top 5 in this draft.

If people just base it on stat I think 5DOM and rudeboy would definitely draft Adam Morrison as number one overall pick and would praise him as the best player since Lebron James.

[Comeatme_Bro]

You also have to factor in that Barnes is 2 years younger than Vesely.

[dagger]

You also have to factor in that Barnes is 2 years younger than Vesely.

True, but neither is old. And Vesely has developed leadership ability. Again, like I said, it may be close enough that you sit back and take the word of the pro scouts on this one. Certainly, Barnes + DeRozan would be a different look than Vesely + DeRozan on the wing. But Vesely would also give our frontcourt a bit more length. If you wanted to go with Amir and Ed at the 4/5 for any length of time, Vesely would likely be a better complement at the 3 than Barnes. Vesely would actually be the tallest of that trio.

[Reignman]

..also Barnes doesn't chuck at all. He gets a lot of open 3's that some nights just aren't falling. His stoke is perfect and he's big & has freakishly long enough arms to keep the ball high and shoot over defenders. A lot of his misses are off of offensive rebounds and hustle plays. That's the great thing about his game, you don't have to run plays for him and he'll still score with second chance points or leading the break off of turnovers. A lot of UNC fans think Roy handled him terribly to start the year but he's obviously starting to come around and it's giving HB more confidence. The team finally looks comfortable since Drew transferred, allowing Kendall Marshall to take over the point. Barnes would have looked better as an individual on a different team but he's shown this year that he's a true team player. He just does what he's told, it doesn't mean that he doesn't have star potential.

Good post. I completely agree. Barnes may not have met his pre-season hype but there are other factors into his poor play. I know a lot of die hard Tar Heels fans that were calling for Barnes to play with Marshall early in the season.

To go a step further, UNC's offense was terrible in the first 15 games of the season regardless of Barnes. I know they won games but there was no fluidity to their offense.

[Comeatme_Bro]

You also have to factor in that Barnes is 2 years younger than Vesely.

True, but neither is old. And Vesely has developed leadership ability. Again, like I said, it may be close enough that you sit back and take the word of the pro scouts on this one. Certainly, Barnes + DeRozan would be a different look than Vesely + DeRozan on the wing. But Vesely would also give our frontcourt a bit more length. If you wanted to go with Amir and Ed at the 4/5 for any length of time, Vesely would likely be a better complement at the 3 than Barnes. Vesely would actually be the tallest of that trio.

I haven't seen much of Vesely but can he take people off the dribble and how is his defense? Can he defend against other small forwards in the NBA? One thing that Barnes has impressed me with is his defense but I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to consistently take players off the dribble. Can't say I've seen much of that in his college debut.

[wanker]

This is one where maybe, maybe, Barnes is better, but it's close enough that you'd probably say pick 'em and let the real scouts decide the difference.

I'm not sure if you are serious. You are talking about a 20 year old who has played professional basketball for three years and is averaging 10/3.5 in the Euro League.

[TheRealDeal]

how many prospects have a website completely dedicated to pics of them ?

http://blackfalconthebasedgod.tumblr.com/

Charlie Sheen sums it up well..

[dagger]

You also have to factor in that Barnes is 2 years younger than Vesely.

True, but neither is old. And Vesely has developed leadership ability. Again, like I said, it may be close enough that you sit back and take the word of the pro scouts on this one. Certainly, Barnes + DeRozan would be a different look than Vesely + DeRozan on the wing. But Vesely would also give our frontcourt a bit more length. If you wanted to go with Amir and Ed at the 4/5 for any length of time, Vesely would likely be a better complement at the 3 than Barnes. Vesely would actually be the tallest of that trio.

I haven't seen much of Vesely but can he take people off the dribble and how is his defense? Can he defend against other small forwards in the NBA? One thing that Barnes has impressed me with is his defense but I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to consistently take players off the dribble. Can't say I've seen much of that in his college debut.

He can take people - at least in Europe - off the dribble, but he's primarily and inside player who loves to score in the paint but has been backing his game out to the three point line. He's a monster dunker with great vertical athleticism, runs the court as well as any 6'11" guy. He's a solid defender, with good lateral movement, but like I said, Barnes has very good speed on D. Both would be an upgrade defensively over the guys we've had at small forward for the past decade. The thing with these two, they have different styles and strengths, and as GM, if your assessment is close, you look at how each would mesh with your core guys going forward.

I'd be happy with either of them at our current drafting position or where I think we'll end up with our soft schedule ahead (5-7).

[Troubadour]

While he did struggle at the start of the season, he has really come into his own in the past few weeks. If we don't win the lottery, do you think the Raptors might give him a look with the pick?

[dagger]

It's also sayonara from the Euroleague today for Valanciunas, who team, Rytas of Vilnius, was abused on the perimeter all day.

Valanciunas finished with 9 points (4/5 shooting, plus 1/2 at the line, which included his first miss at the stripe after 17 consecutive makes). He had 11 boards (two offensive) and a block.

One interesting Tweet about his rebounding.

ChristopheEPcom
RT @inthegamebasket: The percentage of shots Valanciunas rebounds is right on the level of K.Love and D.Howard's numbers in NBA,over 20%.

[duppyy]

Yes.

He's still raw, but i think the risk is worth it.

[Comeatme_Bro]

Yes.

He's still raw, but i think the risk is worth it.

I'd hit that SO SO HARD goodness gracious.

[wanker]

-at least in Europe -

Europe, where Andrea Bargnani shines on defense.

[Basketball_Jones]

What a bad turn of events. a couple of wins that will mean nothing in the long run and ruin the draft standing, and now Barnes is turning it up and might not be available around the 5th -6th pick.

[Troubadour]

Yes.

He's still raw, but i think the risk is worth it.

Imagine a 2/3 of DeRozan and Barnes. With Kabongo at the 1.

[5DOM]

I don't think I'll feel foolish at all if Barnes does end up better than Williams, Sullinger and the Joneses. It will be more like feeling disappointed after knowing you folded before seeing the turn and river that would have won you the game. I honestly don't see how anyone can justify picking Barnes 2nd overall based on what he's shown until now, but if you are right, I'll send Colangelo an email to hire you as a scout

What he's shown and what his stats say are two different things. When it comes to prospects you have to be able differentiate.

Blake Griffin wasn't the next coming in his freshmen year.

Tim Duncan wasn't the next coming in his freshmen year.

Paul Pierce fell in the draft because of the same things Barnes is going through.

Vince Carter was Jamieson's side kick at UNC.

I could go on and on about players that became much better than they looked in their freshmen year.

What I'm looking at is the skills that Barnes has at his disposal and his ceiling if he improves on his weaknesses. He looks like the 2nd best prospect to me.

And you won't have to refer me as a scout, I'd bet money Barnes goes top 5 in this draft.

If people just base it on stat I think 5DOM and rudeboy would definitely draft Adam Morrison as number one overall pick and would praise him as the best player since Lebron James.

I don't why why you keep saying I only look at the stats when in fact I barely mentioned them. I did mention his low 3 pointer % because you said he's a great 3 point shooter which is obviously false. My main knock on him has always been that he's not very polished at all offensively. He basically can't create his own shot and looks awkward at the college level. And is it really that crazy for me to think that Williams, Sullinger, Terrence Jones and Perry Jones have been more impressive than Barnes this season?

As for Reignman's comparisons to Griffin, Duncan and VC, what if Barnes is the next Marvin Williams? And I very well know the difference between what he's shown and the stats he posted. And I repeat that Barnes really hasn't shown much to be the 2nd overall pick (and I don't just mean his average stats)