Official Trade Thread XVI: 5/3/11 - 6/29/11

[nate33]

I'm struggling to remember my Roman numerals.

Link to last page of old thread for reference:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=1078033&start=1470

Let the trade proposals continue...

[BruceO]

i propose trading official trade thread xvi for official trade xv plus your wives and daughters. the wives part can be done separately like saturday nights at bar nun during " entre nous" i look forward to more succesful trade proposals like the time me and will smith decided to wife swap and i didn't have a wife.

[pineappleheadindc]

i propose trading official trade thread xvi for official trade xv plus your wives and daughters. the wives part can be done separately like saturday nights at bar nun during " entre nous" i look forward to more succesful trade proposals like the time me and will smith decided to wife swap and i didn't have a wife.

WIN!

[Rafael122]

i propose trading official trade thread xvi for official trade xv plus your wives and daughters. the wives part can be done separately like saturday nights at bar nun during " entre nous" i look forward to more succesful trade proposals like the time me and will smith decided to wife swap and i didn't have a wife.

WIN!

WINNING. Not win...WINNING.

[LyricalRico]

Pulled this from the last page of the previous thread:

You'd trade McGee and the ATL pick for who exactly?

Stop being infatuated with the spot of the pick, and focus on the player we'd actually get. There are no centers in this draft that are better than McGee IMO. So why trade him for a pick in a weak draft with no centers? Makes no sense at all.

Sometimes these players need to mature. Nick Young, who was considered this time last year as trade fodder, is now a "building block" according to some. Give McGee more time...he at least deserves that much.

I'm on the fence for this exact reason, maybe another season starting at Center, maybe another offseason of workouts/conditioning, and maybe he gets it. On the other hand, the guy is still biting on every pump fake, still goaltends at least 2-3 times per game. You HOPE he gets it, but it doesn't seem like he is. He's still making rookie mistakes in his 3rd year.

Fair points. But that could also be an argument for dealing him. Maybe there are GMs out there who feel that their team can get McGee over the hump. If so, we should take advantage of that. If we don't, and he doesn't progress next season - we're going to be stuck between giving him a contract he might not deserve and losing him for nothing. I'd much rather get some value for him now and try again with another project big.

[Illuminaire]

At the start of the season I thought McGee was an easy call to make - you don't get rid of talented 7-footers who only need a dash of consistency and discipline to become top-15 material.

The problem is, McGee isn't showing even the slightest signs of said consistency and discipline. If anything, he looks even more wild and unfocused on the court now. I just don't get it. I can't understand how he still thinks his crazy goal-tends are a good idea, or why he doesn't box out half the time. I really do wonder how much of this might be a momma's boy/overprotective mom issue.

Javale needs to take some lessons from Booker, and start acting like a grown-assed man.

[Ruzious]

Here's a hypothetical based somewhat on reality... maybe:
Say we're 7 mil under the cap this offseason (including all cap holds), and the new CBA has the same MLE exception rules - for 5.5 mil. Do you take the risk and give Oden an offer sheet for a mil over the MLE and guarantee him 4 years with 10% annual raises (assuming the CBA permits them)? Assume that Oden won't accept anything less. Then assume Portland will match the offer unless the Wiz give them Seraphin in a sign and trade. Do you do it?

[Error Afflalo]

Going back to the Cousins/McGee convo for a second...

While Cousins is a much bigger knucklehead than McGee, he's also a more talented and much more polished knucklehead. I would definitely make a play for him and bank on Wall being a positive influence on him.

[verbal8]

Here's a hypothetical based somewhat on reality... maybe:
Say we're 7 mil under the cap this offseason (including all cap holds), and the new CBA has the same MLE exception rules - for 5.5 mil. Do you take the risk and give Oden an offer sheet for a mil over the MLE and guarantee him 4 years with 10% annual raises (assuming the CBA permits them)? Assume that Oden won't accept anything less. Then assume Portland will match the offer unless the Wiz give them Seraphin in a sign and trade. Do you do it?

So it would take roughly $30 million and Seraphin for Oden, who may never be able to stay healthy? This would completely undo any salary benefit from the Arenas/Lewis swap.

[Ruzious]

Here's a hypothetical based somewhat on reality... maybe:
Say we're 7 mil under the cap this offseason (including all cap holds), and the new CBA has the same MLE exception rules - for 5.5 mil. Do you take the risk and give Oden an offer sheet for a mil over the MLE and guarantee him 4 years with 10% annual raises (assuming the CBA permits them)? Assume that Oden won't accept anything less. Then assume Portland will match the offer unless the Wiz give them Seraphin in a sign and trade. Do you do it?

So it would take roughly $30 million and Seraphin for Oden, who may never be able to stay healthy? This would completely undo any salary benefit from the Arenas/Lewis swap.

I guess I wasn't thinking in those terms, but ok. I was thinking more about the potential benefit of getting Oden and weighing the risk - rather than just comparing it to the situation we were in before the Arenas trade.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Going back to the Cousins/McGee convo for a second...

While Cousins is a much bigger knucklehead than McGee, he's also a more talented and much more polished knucklehead. I would definitely make a play for him and bank on Wall being a positive influence on him.

The proper play IMO would be to KEEP MCGEE (shouted for emphasis) and to trade Blatche and pick(s) for Cousins.

To all this talk about Javale regressing, Javale goaltending, and boneheaded plays I respond:
http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS16.HTM

Code: Select all

                   Stat      ON Court   OFF Court   Net
                   Minutes   1033       858         54%
Offense: Pts per 100 Poss.   107.0      99.7        +7.3
Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.   108.9     111.0        -2.2
Net Points per100 Possessions -1.9     -11.4        +9.4


Javale is on the court for the Wizards approximately 54% of the time, or about 26 minutes a game.
When McGee is on the court the offense scores 107 points per 100 possessions.
When McGee is off the court the offense scores 99.7 points per 100 possessions.

Over the average 48 minute game, the Wizards would score 7.3 pointes more points with McGee than without. He makes the offense MUCH better.

When Javale is on the court the defense allows 108.9 points per 100 possessions.
When Javale is off the court the defense allows 111.0 points per 100 possessions.

Over average 100 possessions the defense allows 2.1 points less with McGee playing. He even is an improvement defensively.

The team net is +9.4 points/48 minutes with McGee on the court

If you don't like that look at PER. His is 16.5, a slight dip from 17 the past couple seasons.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... eja01.html

And if you don't like those particular metrics, here's a list of Cs sorted by efficiency per 48 minutes.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fa ... /6/eff/1-3

Javale is 26th out of 90, right after Bogut (25) and ahead of Okafor (27). He's also ahead of Kaman, Marc Gasol, Biedrins, Cousins, Robin Lopez, Haywood, and Seraphin.

I would fire Flip before rushing to judgment on McGee. McGee is a better player than he is allowed to show with Washington. McGee does some dumb-looking things, but I don't go by the few the perception of a few bad plays--I go by what ACTUALLY HAPPENS WHEN HE PLAYS vs WHEN HE DOESN'T.

[Ruzious]

CCJ, I'd agree with you, but do you really think Sacramento would have any interest in Blatche? The only reason they'd be trading Cousins is because of his attitude. So, I'd think Blatche and his contract might actually be the last player in the NBA that they'd have an interest in.

[theboomking]

Here's a hypothetical based somewhat on reality... maybe:
Say we're 7 mil under the cap this offseason (including all cap holds), and the new CBA has the same MLE exception rules - for 5.5 mil. Do you take the risk and give Oden an offer sheet for a mil over the MLE and guarantee him 4 years with 10% annual raises (assuming the CBA permits them)? Assume that Oden won't accept anything less. Then assume Portland will match the offer unless the Wiz give them Seraphin in a sign and trade. Do you do it?

So it would take roughly $30 million and Seraphin for Oden, who may never be able to stay healthy? This would completely undo any salary benefit from the Arenas/Lewis swap.

I guess I wasn't thinking in those terms, but ok. I was thinking more about the potential benefit of getting Oden and weighing the risk - rather than just comparing it to the situation we were in before the Arenas trade.

Oden is worth the risk. I would kill for a chance at him, and I don't think Portland is going to give him up. The team that I really thought should have made a play for Oden is OKC. He could have put them over the edge if he ever gets healthy.

Oden is 23 years old. His patellar fracture is a non-issue. Those don't cause chronic problems. His two knee surgeries have been on opposite knees. I would be a lot more worried about a chronic problem if the surgeries had been on the same knee. Even so, we're talking about a 7' center, who had shown the promise to be the best rim defender in the game and posted PER's of 18.13, 23.14, and 21.91 in his first 3 limited seasons.

Oden isn't going to be that expensive. Probably a little moreso than Blatche. The risk reward with him weighs heavily in favor of making the investment. If Oden returns to form after his microfracture, we would have a potential championship core with Oden and Wall and our 2011 draft pick. Even if he is just able to stay healthy next year, we might be able to flip him as part of a package to obtain Dwight Howard.

Honestly, I'd rather keep Seraphin than McGee at this point. The frenchie is already a better defender, couldn't be less polished than McGee on offense, but probably doesn't rebound as well. Seraphin is also a tough SOB, and doesn't rack up the goal tending and defensive 3 second penalties like McGee. It's terrible that a euro rookie is more heady and a better defender than McGee.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

CCJ, I'd agree with you, but do you really think Sacramento would have any interest in Blatche? The only reason they'd be trading Cousins is because of his attitude. So, I'd think Blatche and his contract might actually be the last player in the NBA that they'd have an interest in.

I think the Wizards would have to do something like Kyrie Irving and Blatche for Cousins and Garcia.

Why wouldn't the Kings do it or the Wizards?

[LyricalRico]

McGee for Speights?

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

McGee for Speights?

I'd want more than Speights straight up just on perceived value--though Speights might be better.

[Ruzious]

That's the thing, boom. When Oden was healthy, he showed that after Howard, he's the most capable young center in the game - I think by a considerable margin. I'd say even if there's just a 50/50 shot that he stays healthy next season, ya gotta go for it with him. I really don't have a good feel of what Portland's thoughts are with him - other than frustration - or what they'd think of an offer of McGee or Seraphin. But if I were running the Wiz, I'd find out.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Before trading McGee (a run, jump, long athlete) or Seraphin (big, tough, agile) I would get another coach who has the foresight to allow them to be on the court together.

It's not an either/or with Seraphin and McGee. I think they complement each other well.

[LyricalRico]

McGee+Lewis for Okafor+Ariza+Jack? If we drafted Sullinger with out lotto pick, drafted a wing with the ATL pick, and moved Blatche for anything, we'd have:

Okafor/Seraphin
Sullinger(?)/Booker
Ariza/Singler(?)
Young/Crawford
Wall/Jack

Lots of smart guys who will play hard and defend. The downside is limited scoring and a full cap. But I could root for that team.

[Illuminaire]

CCJ, I'd agree with you, but do you really think Sacramento would have any interest in Blatche? The only reason they'd be trading Cousins is because of his attitude. So, I'd think Blatche and his contract might actually be the last player in the NBA that they'd have an interest in.

I think the Wizards would have to do something like Kyrie Irving and Blatche for Cousins and Garcia.

Why wouldn't the Kings do it or the Wizards?

Because we're a little bit sick of talented head cases?