Fire Spoelstra

[Iputsomepantson]

In the past I've played on the odd teams with talented players who were never-the-less massive egotistical douche bags who would never pass. I personally did not blame the coach, I blamed the players themselves for being such douche bags in the first place. I think this is the natural, logical reaction for anyone in this situation, why is it completely different with the Heat?

Delete.

[Ronito]

How many have you voted here: http://www.firespo.com/

[Chessboxer]

I've been trying to stay neutral on this issue the whole season, but I'm starting to think this is might be a legitimate move. Losing big leads, not executing down the stretch, an inability to beat good teams. This is coaching. Also the team is very predictable. I also am starting to wonder about his ability to command the respect of his players.

Anyways if there is a change its not happening this season, I think its too late.

[Flashpoint]

In the past I've played on the odd teams with talented players who were never-the-less massive egotistical douche bags who would never pass. I personally did not blame the coach, I blamed the players themselves for being such douche bags in the first place. I think this is the natural, logical reaction for anyone in this situation, why is it completely different with the Heat?

Sure, that's totally comparable. It's different with the Heat because a professional basketball team is a little different than your playing shirts and skins at the local la fitness.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Fans of other teams are coming here to mess up the poll results.

They vote No on the poll so that we keep Spo and still suck.

[Rasheed36]

SPO MUST GO!


He's proving he's one of the most inept coaches in NBA history.



He's got the right idea in this pic though.....

[Iputsomepantson]

Fans of other teams are coming here to mess up the poll results.

They vote No on the poll so that we keep Spo and still suck.

I honestly find it hilarious that they do it.

[ponder276]

In the past I've played on the odd teams with talented players who were never-the-less massive egotistical douche bags who would never pass. I personally did not blame the coach, I blamed the players themselves for being such douche bags in the first place. I think this is the natural, logical reaction for anyone in this situation, why is it completely different with the Heat?

Sure, that's totally comparable. It's different with the Heat because a professional basketball team is a little different than your playing shirts and skins at the local la fitness.

Obviously different situations, but it seems to be a pattern with these players, especially with LeBron. No coach at any level has ever been able to get LeBron to move the ball quickly and play within an offense, he has always completely dominated the ball, stagnated the offense, and used his teammates as decoys or spot-up shooters, not real players. At a certain point, when this happens over and over, you'd think it would become time to place blame on the players, not the coaches? It just seems strange to me that when I check out these boards 99.9% of people blame only Spo, it is the very odd voice of dissent placing blame on the players, seems to me like some sort of mass denial.

[infinite11285]

I asked this in another thread but I'll ask again...

Have you guys EVER ran a Wade/Bron PnR?

[Iputsomepantson]

I asked this in another thread but I'll ask again...

Have you guys EVER ran a Wade/Bron PnR?

You have proven yourself more than qualified to coach the Heat, would you like the job?

[Flashpoint]

Sure, that's totally comparable. It's different with the Heat because a professional basketball team is a little different than your playing shirts and skins at the local la fitness.

Obviously different situations, but it seems to be a pattern with these players, especially with LeBron. No coach at any level has ever been able to get LeBron to move the ball quickly and play within an offense, he has always completely dominated the ball, stagnated the offense, and used his teammates as decoys or spot-up shooters, not real players. At a certain point, when this happens over and over, you'd think it would become time to place blame on the players, not the coaches? It just seems strange to me that when I check out these boards 99.9% of people blame only Spo, it is the very odd voice of dissent placing blame on the players, seems to me like some sort of mass denial.

It's really hard to take you seriously after that ridiculous comparison but you're trying so I'll try. What denial is there in placing the blame on the only element on this team that has never proven itself before? The players have earned their stripes in this league. Same can't be said of Spo. It's understandable that the blame would go towards him first. Also the systemic and psychological failures of this team imply that something is wrong at the top.

Lebron picked up those habits because he has always been far and away the best player on his team. When Lebron came here it was, in his words, to become a better player. The Miami Heat system Riley implemented many years ago is one founded on a very deep belief that Lebron obviously bought into. Unfortunately, Spo is no Riley so it hasn't been the experience he anticipated, but Bron did come here with the ambition to improve. But Eric **** Spoelstra has nothing of any value to pass on to a player of Lebron's caliber. He has a willingness to improve. He's reverting to previous habits out of the necessity of a team in chaos.

[infinite11285]

I asked this in another thread but I'll ask again...

Have you guys EVER ran a Wade/Bron PnR?

You have proven yourself more than qualified to coach the Heat, would you like the job?

Guess that's a no. Whelp...let me dust off my wind breaker pants and goggles, Miami here I come! PS...I only have one suit. Black.....all black.

[MiamiHeat04]

oh my flight got delayed an extra day and now i had to put up with Orlando and SA loss with our coach who is the worst coach ever. See you later Miami and Spoelstra!!! Maybe we can get Sloan?!?!

[Iputsomepantson]

Guess that's a no. Whelp...let me dust off my wind breaker pants and goggles, Miami here I come! PS...I only have one suit. Black.....all black.

Bringing the Riley style too I see.

[Alex Trevelyan]

Obviously different situations, but it seems to be a pattern with these players, especially with LeBron. No coach at any level has ever been able to get LeBron to move the ball quickly and play within an offense, he has always completely dominated the ball, stagnated the offense, and used his teammates as decoys or spot-up shooters, not real players. At a certain point, when this happens over and over, you'd think it would become time to place blame on the players, not the coaches? It just seems strange to me that when I check out these boards 99.9% of people blame only Spo, it is the very odd voice of dissent placing blame on the players, seems to me like some sort of mass denial.

Of course the players get some of the blame. Bosh is savaged on these forums. Wade has become a target with his lazy defense and horrendous shot selection. LeBron has been taken to task for pounding the rock and doing the things you point out, but Spoelstra is the field general. All matters of strategy, tactics and discipline begin and end with him. It's his "system" that is being run on offense and defense.

If Bosh is the second option on an end game play that requires a three-pointer, that's on Spoelstra. Why are players told to collapse on Dwight Howard when the only way the Magic can get back into the game is by raining three-pointers? Howard can't bring the Magic back, only their three-pointers can save them, so why the hell are players being told to flood the lane? That's on Spoelstra, that's the sort of maddening crap that has earned him every modicum of criticism he's received. You make a good point vis a vis LeBron's life-long penchant for grinding offenses to a halt with his ball-stopping proclivities, but why did Pat Riley or anyone else think a guy like Spoelstra could change him? Someone like Riley might be able to change him, someone like Sloan or Popovich or Phil Jackson maybe, but only someone of immense stature is going to get LeBron to listen and perhaps even that is questionable at this point.

[Salty]

Guess that's a no. Whelp...let me dust off my wind breaker pants and goggles, Miami here I come! PS...I only have one suit. Black.....all black.

Bringing the Riley style too I see.

Better go to costco and stock up on hair gel while you're at it

[ponder276]

Obviously different situations, but it seems to be a pattern with these players, especially with LeBron. No coach at any level has ever been able to get LeBron to move the ball quickly and play within an offense, he has always completely dominated the ball, stagnated the offense, and used his teammates as decoys or spot-up shooters, not real players. At a certain point, when this happens over and over, you'd think it would become time to place blame on the players, not the coaches? It just seems strange to me that when I check out these boards 99.9% of people blame only Spo, it is the very odd voice of dissent placing blame on the players, seems to me like some sort of mass denial.

Of course the players get some of the blame. Bosh is savaged on these forums. Wade has become a target with his lazy defense and horrendous shot selection. LeBron has been taken to task for pounding the rock and doing the things you point out, but Spoelstra is the field general. All matters of strategy, tactics and discipline begin and end with him. It's his "system" that is being run on offense and defense.

If Bosh is the second option on an end game play that requires a three-pointer, that's on Spoelstra. Why are players told to collapse on Dwight Howard when the only way the Magic can get back into the game is by raining three-pointers? Howard can't bring the Magic back, only their three-pointers can save them, so why the hell are players being told to flood the lane? That's on Spoelstra, that's the sort of maddening crap that has earned him every modicum of criticism he's received. You make a good point vis a vis LeBron's life-long penchant for grinding offenses to a halt with his ball-stopping proclivities, but why did Pat Riley or anyone else think a guy like Spoelstra could change him? Someone like Riley might be able to change him, someone like Sloan or Popovich or Phil Jackson maybe, but only someone of immense stature is going to get LeBron to listen and perhaps even that is questionable at this point.

I will definitely agree with this post, I'm not trying to say none of the blame lies with Spo. Certainly he deserves part of the blame for their stagnant, individualistic offense, and other team problems, but tonnes of blame has to fall on the players too. Yet ready any of the game threads or post game threads, and they are mostly filled with hate for Spo exclusively.

As you said, I think there are very few coaches who could truly reign these egos in. Phil is probably better than anyone else at dealing with big egos, and even he struggles massively with Kobe, and ultimately could not keep Kobe and Shaq together. Too many people on these boards just place endless blame on Spo and turn the blind eye of denial on the elephant in the room, which is the fact that these players have tremendous power (the power to get their coach fired), and they do not want to change. In Boston, for example, Pierce/Allen/KG were ready to move the ball and sacrifice their stats/style for the good of the team from day 1, in Miami this is not the case at all, and that is on the players as much as it's on the coach. This was a direct quote from LeBron earlier in the season re: changing his game for the better of the team:

“No, I can’t change my game dramatically and I don’t think he can either,” LeBron said. “It doesn’t make any sense to do that. I’m not going to.” He paused adding: “I’d just be a role player at that point.”

[desert_scar]

Sorry HIV, you are flat wrong on this.

Pretty much anyone with a league wide perspective--be it experts, gamblers, analysts--figured the only shot to derail the Heat was the Lakers' front line and the Heat were the odds on favorite. To have a young, injured, revamped Bulls roster lead by a rook coach this close is incredible revealing about the Heat's season 75% in. Given what has happened to the Lakers, this season should be all Miami's and Miami shares with them in most dissappointing/underachieving status at this point. Revisionist history to say otherwise.

The only argument left is WHAT is the problem and reason for underachievement (is it a start player, lack of role players, poor coaching?)--not whether it has happened so far.

Why when people are wrong do they often revert to name calling. HIV is probably banworthy.

I don't think you actually understand how odds work.

The bookmakers are in the business of making money from people who are either sick or who think they know more than anyone else. It is very rare that a bookmaker actually loses. A bookmaker sets the odds NOT on who he thinks is going to win or lose but so that he can maximise his profits.

If I put 23 trillion dollars on Minnesota to win the title before the season started they would have started the season with the shortest odds. Not because they were going to win the title but because the bookmakers needed to offset possible losses.

Before the season Americans, for the most part, were taken in by the hype surrounding the big 3 signing. They didn't look at things logically or intelligently (otherwise they wouldn't have gambled at all). A lot of money was placed on the Heat by "punters" that is what made the odds short.

Who will win at the end of the season - the bookies I assure you. They do every season.

HIF do want to apologize about the typo/brain fart in your screen name, would never make light of that and would hope I would be more clever than that even if trying to be tongue and cheek (which I wasn't in that case).

I do know how betting lines work. And the reason just about noone makes a living with sports is the pool of gamblers for the most part isn't that far off the true odds. Betting lines (set by experts and then adjusted for fan betting) tend not to be far off objective or empirically derived lines (e.g., like Sheridan's)--certainly well within the margin the house needs to win.

Further, many of the Heats metrics shows how talented they are. Right at the top of the league in defense, offense, efficiency, differential, margin, etc. The two teams that have got the least out of their W-L column relative to how strong their metrics are the Heat and Lakers. The difference is the Lakers have every bit of reason to still be confident after coasting the regular season. The Heat players look like they are really trying hard--they are just not jelling as a unit in key times (major defensive breakdowns on top of lack of organized offense). I think the Heat's chances would double or triple for winning a title if Riley was the coach--I don't think Spoz steadies the team in crises or gets them out of funks, he just doesn't have the experience or credibility with the players.

[HIF]

No problem Desert.

I don't need to repeat my position again. Too many people say exactly the same thing five times after every loss on this thread. Not quite sure why anybody reads it now - do we really need the same poster posting the same thing 150 times?

[andre316]

I wish we could see the vote breakdown here. I have a feeling Miami fans are at least 70-30 against Spo, and it's everyone else who's voting for him.