Today's Derrick Rose vs. MVP Season of Iverson?

Raptor_Guy · Post #21 » by **Raptor_Guy** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 5:50 pm

Iverson..and this isn't even remotely close

X-Factor · Post #22 » by **X-Factor** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 6:09 pm

Allen Iverson hands down no questions asked. A.I. was a superstar D. Rose is still yet to reach that plateau. His performance in this post season will determine that IMO.

mysticbb · Post #23 » by **mysticbb** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 6:09 pm

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:I'll take Iverson, he was restless and fearless. I have to see Rose at least get out the first round of the playoffs before I pick him over Iverson

The 76ers in 2001 went 6-5 without Iverson, 4 of those losses came on a 4 game road trip including b2b against teams with an average of 0.540 win%, the other loss was on the last day of the season when Brown also rest a couple of other players.

Seriously, that 76ers team had the DPOY, the SMOY and the COY. They had the 2nd easiest schedule in the whole league (-0.65 SOS vs. -0.40 SOS of the current Bulls) and still, with Iverson they had a slightly lower win% than the Bulls with Rose in this season.
The Eastern Conference was a joke that season. The Western Conference won 63.2% of the games against the East. If we take the 76ers record vs. the West and East as an indicator and assume they wouldn't have played 54 times against the East, they would have ended up with 51 wins and 6th or 7th seed in the West. They would have played the Lakers or Kings in the 1st round. We know how the series against the Lakers ended and we also know that the Kings crushed that team by 21 points in March on the road. No idea, but those facts are indicating that the 76ers would have lost in the 1st round, if they would have to play against serious competition.

Iverson in 2001 was a worse player than Rose, worse as a defender, worse as a playmaker, worse as the scorer in terms of effiency. No idea, but in which area was Iverson really better? He had the better team and a HOF coach in Brown, who was able to hide Iverson's weaknesses very well in a great defensive system. The team around Iverson was willing to sacrifice everything for the glory of one player. The 76ers went to the finals primary due to weaker competition, better coaching and better defensive strength in the frontcourt than the rest of the East, not because of Iverson.

Post #24 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 6:23 pm

LOL at the better team, ahahahahah.

I'd love see this great team play without Iverson all year.

Mutumbo
Tyrone Hill
George Lynch
Aaron McKie
Eric Snow

Jumaine Jones
Toni Kukoc
Kevin Ollie
Todd Macculoch
Rodney Buford

The 6ers weren't even better defensively than the Bulls are this year, people need to stop pretending they were the 04 Pistons, or that Aaron McKie is this incredible Manu-esque 6th man. Some how Larry Brown's incredible beast of an all time defense was only 5th that year, with nothing but defensive stoppers playing heavy minutes. His perfectly tailored offense for AI, included one of the worst shooting lineups in the league, that provided no space for a penetrator, and no one to dish the ball too. Wow, what a tremendous situation!

Somehow Tom Thibodeau is rocking the number 1 defense, and his team shoots much better from deep, even if they aren't perfect, they have a better defense, and a ton more offensive talent, not even close.

Remember when the Cavs were 4-3 to start the season? That's why small sample size sucks, if you take Rose and Iverson off the teams, the 76ers can't even almost compete with the Bulls, just because of Boozer/Deng/Noah.

Bearsfan1989 · Post #25 » by **Bearsfan1989** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 6:32 pm

Only time will tell and people tend to forget that this is Rose's third season and he is already in the talks for MVP.

mysticbb · Post #26 » by **mysticbb** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 6:42 pm

Bearsfan1989 wrote:Only time will tell and people tend to forget that this is Rose's third season and he is already in the talks for MVP.

Not only this, but he is also a better candidate in this season than Iverson was in 2001. The 76ers, as I wrote, won 6 of their 10 games without Iverson (not counting the last game due to Brown resting some players). Small sample size is only a problem for those just "watched" the games via boxscore in 2001. Because those couldn't see that the 76ers actually played decent offensively without Iverson due to their better offensive setting without him. They were limited on offense in terms of talent, but they made up for that due to team work and playing better defensively. And that also covered up Iverson's weak inefficient chucking.

Rose right now runs the offense of the Bulls much better than Iverson, Rose is also the better defender. The only argument for Iverson is volume. But are 3.3 points per 36 minutes more really more valuable than 3.9 assists more by Rose together with better rebounding and defense?

actrived · Post #27 » by **actrived** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 6:48 pm

The Answer.

Right now.

AW=Heart & Soul · Post #28 » by **AW=Heart & Soul** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:12 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:LOL at the better team, ahahahahah.

I'd love see this great team play without Iverson all year.

Mutumbo
Tyrone Hill
George Lynch
Aaron McKie
Eric Snow

Jumaine Jones
Toni Kukoc
Kevin Ollie
Todd Macculoch
Rodney Buford

The 6ers weren't even better defensively than the Bulls are this year, people need to stop pretending they were the 04 Pistons, or that Aaron McKie is this incredible Manu-esque 6th man. Some how Larry Brown's incredible beast of an all time defense was only 5th that year, with nothing but defensive stoppers playing heavy minutes. His perfectly tailored offense for AI, included one of the worst shooting lineups in the league, that provided no space for a penetrator, and no one to dish the ball too. Wow, what a tremendous situation!

Somehow Tom Thibodeau is rocking the number 1 defense, and his team shoots much better from deep, even if they aren't perfect, they have a better defense, and a ton more offensive talent, not even close.

Remember when the Cavs were 4-3 to start the season? That's why small sample size sucks, if you take Rose and Iverson off the teams, the 76ers can't even almost compete with the Bulls, just because of Boozer/Deng/Noah.

+1 The Answer.

nitric0 · Post #29 » by **nitric0** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:30 pm

So this is the damage control we'll be seeing in May

actrived · Post #30 » by **actrived** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:34 pm

NO-KG-AI wrote:LOL at the better team, ahahahahah.

+1. Truth spoken.

Iverson is my favorite player of all time.

He was 5'11" of passion and fearlessness. Watching him play in person was pure magic, definitely the best live sports moment of my life. His crossover was so deceptive and so effective, players just played back two steps more than they would on anyone else. He could split double teams with a single move and was a hawk on the passing lanes.

As much as I love D-Rose and support his MVP campaign, Philly would have been NOTHING with AI during the 2000-2001 season. The bulls could be the 7th/8th seed without Rose, but the sixers would have been a lottery team for sure without the Answer.

Allen Iverson was the entire team. It's such a shame his career played out the way it did.

X-Factor · Post #31 » by **X-Factor** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:38 pm

actrived wrote:+1. Truth spoken.

Iverson is my favorite player of all time.

He was 5'11" of passion and fearlessness. Watching him play in person was pure magic, definitely the best live sports moment of my life. His crossover was so deceptive and so effective, players just played back two steps more than they would on anyone else. He could split double teams with a single move and was a hawk on the passing lanes.

As much as I love D-Rose and support his MVP campaign, Philly would have been NOTHING with AI during the 2000-2001 season. The bulls could be the 7th/8th seed without Rose, but the sixers would have been a lottery team for sure without the Answer.

Allen Iverson was the entire team. It's such a shame his career played out the way it did.

Well Said!

mysticbb · Post #32 » by **mysticbb** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 7:46 pm

So, to get that straight, the majority in this thread thinks Iverson is the better player, because he was smaller than Rose and somewhat more stylish. He also had some sort of transcendent abilities and his team was successful in a weak conference while having the DPOY, the SMOY and the COY. Nobody disputed that Rose is the better playmaker, more efficient scorer, better rebounder, better overall defender. Well, sounds pretty convincing to me and I will change my mind and say Iverson EASILY!

ChristinaBosh1 · Post #33 » by **ChristinaBosh1** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 9:38 pm

dookieguy wrote:I think I take Iverson NOW.

Why are you still posting?

BossHoggin · Post #34 » by **BossHoggin** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 9:42 pm

dookieguy wrote:I think I take Iverson NOW.

+1 This guy knows his stuff he used to be a Nuggets fan.

therealbig3 · Post #35 » by **therealbig3** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 9:43 pm

Rose. Iverson is overrated.

NYK 455 · Post #36 » by **NYK 455** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 10:35 pm

Rose pretty easily. Better offensive and defensive player.

actrived · Post #37 » by **actrived** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 11:22 pm

BossHoggin wrote:
dookieguy wrote:I think I take Iverson NOW.

+1 This guy knows his stuff he used to be a Nuggets fan.

Allen Iverson, spoken through my avatar, approves this message

Post #38 » by **NO-KG-AI** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 12:02 am

If Rose is so much better offensively, why are the bulls 18th on offense with substantially more offensive talent? I would love to see the Sixers sustain that 13th offensive rating without AI. They could run the offense through SIXTH MAN OF THE YEARZZZZ Aaron McKie!!

Stop pretending like rule changes don't have a lot to do with scoring efficiency, we saw old AI under these joke of perimeter defense rules, and he was more efficient and had higher volume,

Rose is not an efficient scorer, and he's low volume comparatively.

He's not some offensive dynamo, he's cut from the same aggressive mold, but he's not as talented as a pure scorer and doesn't put nearly as much pressure on a defense.

JordansBulls · Post #39 » by **JordansBulls** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 12:15 am

If you are looking for humility then it is Rose.

NYK 455 · Post #40 » by **NYK 455** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 1:59 am

NO-KG-AI wrote:If Rose is so much better offensively, why are the bulls 18th on offense with substantially more offensive talent? I would love to see the Sixers sustain that 13th offensive rating without AI. They could run the offense through SIXTH MAN OF THE YEARZZZZ Aaron McKie!!

Stop pretending like rule changes don't have a lot to do with scoring efficiency, we saw old AI under these joke of perimeter defense rules, and he was more efficient and had higher volume,

Rose is not an efficient scorer, and he's low volume comparatively.

He's not some offensive dynamo, he's cut from the same aggressive mold, but he's not as talented as a pure scorer and doesn't put nearly as much pressure on a defense.

I'm far from a Rose homer, and I don't even think he's top 5 in the MVP race, but the Bulls have missed Noah and Boozer for a lot of the season, and that has hurt their offense more than their defense. The Bulls Ortg is 106.6, compared to the 76ers that year, which was 103.6. And Iverson has always been a extremely inefficient player, the dude only had one year with a TS% over 54, and a couple under 50.