Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis

Post #1001 » by **Ruzious** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 3:46 pm

hands11 wrote:I still don't understand how he hasn't at least been hitting 3s.

When I'm looking at college PGs to try to tell how they might do in the NBA, one of the 1st things I look at is - can they finish against bigs? If they can't, they're not going to be very good in the NBA, because you can play em tighter, and they won't get clean jump shots. I think that's the problem Gil is having and will continue to have until/unless he shows he can get all the way to the hoop and score.

hands11 · Post #1002 » by **hands11** » Sat Mar 5, 2011 5:42 pm

Ruzious wrote:
hands11 wrote:I still don't understand how he hasn't at least been hitting 3s.

When I'm looking at college PGs to try to tell how they might do in the NBA, one of the 1st things I look at is - can they finish against bigs? If they can't, they're not going to be very good in the NBA, because you can play em tighter, and they won't get clean jump shots. I think that's the problem Gil is having and will continue to have until/unless he shows he can get all the way to the hoop and score.

I can see that being the case.

So if that is the case, he is a total bust of a deal because all that is left is being a spot up 3 shooting SG and serviceable back up PG.

19.2M, 20.8M, than 22.3M

vs Lewis is worried about getting a little knee scope because he has never had surgery. He should be fine next year.

22M next year is a boat load but at least Lewis can still play. He isn't a head case and he is 6-10 so he should be able to get his shot off. And he can be bought out or traded as an expiring the following year. While not an ideal situation, at least we arent worrying about Gil being here with Wall. Very smart move by EG to make this trade. They went from a terrible situation stuck in a bad marriage to a manageable one that can be an asset.

JonathanJoseph · Post #1003 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 2:45 am

Ruzious wrote:
hands11 wrote:I still don't understand how he hasn't at least been hitting 3s.

When I'm looking at college PGs to try to tell how they might do in the NBA, one of the 1st things I look at is - can they finish against bigs? If they can't, they're not going to be very good in the NBA, because you can play em tighter, and they won't get clean jump shots. I think that's the problem Gil is having and will continue to have until/unless he shows he can get all the way to the hoop and score.

Gilbert Arenas was at one time one of the best finishers in the NBA. Definitely top 5 and maybe the best period. That was not all related to speed and much of it was how good Arenas was at initiating contact and body control. And open looks haven't been the problem either.

It's a bizarre issue.

Post #1004 » by **Ruzious** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 2:54 am

JonathanJoseph wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
hands11 wrote:I still don't understand how he hasn't at least been hitting 3s.

When I'm looking at college PGs to try to tell how they might do in the NBA, one of the 1st things I look at is - can they finish against bigs? If they can't, they're not going to be very good in the NBA, because you can play em tighter, and they won't get clean jump shots. I think that's the problem Gil is having and will continue to have until/unless he shows he can get all the way to the hoop and score.

Gilbert Arenas was at one time one of the best finishers in the NBA. Definitely top 5 and maybe the best period. That was not all related to speed and much of it was how good Arenas was at initiating contact and body control. And open looks haven't been the problem either.

It's a bizarre issue.

It's not at all bizarre. He was an explosive athlete. Without getting back some of that explosion, he can't successfully initiate contact or finish. And that makes it a helluvalot easier to cover him.

Post #1005 » by **montestewart** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 3:49 am

^
Yep, not speed but an explosive first step and explosive lift to the rim. I'm not seeing that lately. Still, I hope he adjusts to the new role.

Post #1006 » by **Hilltop** » Sun Mar 6, 2011 7:35 am

Until Gilbert steps up, the Wizards won that trade. It doesn't matter how underwhelming Rashard Lewis is because he isn't doing any worse than Arenas and at least he is playing a major role on your team as a veteran leader and starter. Arenas is an $18 million backup.

The performances of Bass and Anderson at PF have nothing to do with the swap. If the Magic wanted those two to take the position, all they needed to do was move Lewis to SF or bench him like they are doing with Arenas. There was no need to trade him for someone with a worse contract.

JonathanJoseph · Post #1007 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:33 am

Hilltop wrote:Until Gilbert steps up, the Wizards won that trade. It doesn't matter how underwhelming Rashard Lewis is because he isn't doing any worse than Arenas and at least he is playing a major role on your team as a veteran leader and starter. Arenas is an $18 million backup.

The performances of Bass and Anderson at PF have nothing to do with the swap. If the Magic wanted those two to take the position, all they needed to do was move Lewis to SF or bench him like they are doing with Arenas. There was no need to trade him for someone with a worse contract.

Um, actually that's 100% backwards. Rashard Lewis is playing terribly and may shut it down for the season. He's a $22M injured backup.

TGW · Post #1008 » by **TGW** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:05 pm

JonathanJoseph wrote:
Hilltop wrote:Until Gilbert steps up, the Wizards won that trade. It doesn't matter how underwhelming Rashard Lewis is because he isn't doing any worse than Arenas and at least he is playing a major role on your team as a veteran leader and starter. Arenas is an $18 million backup.

The performances of Bass and Anderson at PF have nothing to do with the swap. If the Magic wanted those two to take the position, all they needed to do was move Lewis to SF or bench him like they are doing with Arenas. There was no need to trade him for someone with a worse contract.

Um, actually that's 100% backwards. Rashard Lewis is playing terribly and may shut it down for the season. [b]He's a $22M injured backup[/b].

So is Arenas. The only difference is that Lewis is owed much less money. Both of them suck, but Arenas sucks more and is owed more dough. Pretty much a no-brainer who won that trade.

JonathanJoseph · Post #1009 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:06 pm

TGW wrote:So is Arenas. The only difference is that Lewis is owed much less money. Both of them suck, but Arenas sucks more and is owed more dough. Pretty much a no-brainer who won that trade.

Ridiculous. Per the Booker thread, Lewis PER in his last 10 games was 3.6. And for the next two years, Lewis is owed more money than Arenas by far and the CBA will determine whether or not that matters.

It's perfectly fair to have any opinion you want, but those of you declaring "no brainer" are not being remotely realistic.

verbal8 · Post #1010 » by **verbal8** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:24 pm

JonathanJoseph wrote:
TGW wrote:So is Arenas. The only difference is that Lewis is owed much less money. Both of them suck, but Arenas sucks more and is owed more dough. Pretty much a no-brainer who won that trade.

Ridiculous. Per the Booker thread, Lewis PER in his last 10 games was 3.6. And for the next two years, Lewis is owed more money than Arenas by far and the CBA will determine whether or not that matters.

Lewis is owed 2 million more for next season than Arenas. Arenas outperforming Lewis next season could possibly happen. But there also is the possibility part of all of the season is wiped out.

However for 2013/14 Lewis may only be owed $10 million. Assuming Lewis is waived, Arenas would have to above the level of a $10 million/year player for Orlando to "win" the trade.

In 2014/15 Arenas would have to earn a max contract. This is where Orlando loses the trade. I think it becomes a non-brainer if all of next year is lost to a lock out.

Post #1011 » by **montestewart** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:46 pm

^
I get your point, but I think some of the math is wrong (if so, I'm sure JJ will find it). If the CBA allows an Arenas amnesty, both contracts will probably be bought out without penalty, as likely they would have even if there were no trade.

tontoz · Post #1012 » by **tontoz** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:14 pm

montestewart wrote:^
I get your point, but I think some of the math is wrong (if so, I'm sure JJ will find it). If the CBA allows an Arenas amnesty, both contracts will probably be bought out without penalty, as likely they would have even if there were no trade.

the Allan Houston rule in the current CBA only got teams out of the luxury tax. It didn't give teams more cap space. I haven't heard of anything like what you are proposing.

Post #1013 » by **montestewart** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:24 pm

tontoz wrote:
montestewart wrote:^
I get your point, but I think some of the math is wrong (if so, I'm sure JJ will find it). If the CBA allows an Arenas amnesty, both contracts will probably be bought out without penalty, as likely they would have even if there were no trade.

the Allan Houston rule in the current CBA only got teams out of the luxury tax. It didn't give teams more cap space. I haven't heard of anything like what you are proposing.

You're right and I was speaking/writing carelessly. My primary point is that any relief offered would likely benefit Orlando and Washington, both of which would like to be free of those contracts, and any work stoppage would benefit the two teams as well regarding salary obligations under the contracts.

hands11 · Post #1014 » by **hands11** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 5:44 pm

So with the playoffs approaching it got me thinking about Gil.

I wondered over the Orlando thread to see what was going on and it seems he has them at their wits end already. He recently said something about how he "can" jump but how he is afraid to do it when driving. Apparently he has rolled out some other excuses as well and they are getting tired of hearing them.

The got me thinking about Gil and how he rolls. What may be going on in his head ? We know Gil loves the lime light and he thrives on being the come back kid and proving everyone wrong. We also know he went from franchise guy with all the attention to in the dog house almost over night.

So is he really done ? Maybe. But if he isn't, wouldn't he likely wait for the right opportunity to show he still has something ? Looking over his numbers makes me think he may be playing possum some. It's hard to believe he is really this bad. .305 FG and .265 from 3 ?

I could see Gils thinking going something like this. Here is the scenario I came up with if I put my Gil thinking cap on.

If Gil is going to show he can still be effective, he would want to do it on a bigger stage. With so much that has gone wrong for so long and with the big stage playoffs getting closer by the day, he would not expose himself to getting injured before he got there. He has waited to long to play in a meaningful game again, why not wait a little longer. And if not playing up to expectations made people believe he couldn't do it, all the better. Let everyone give up on me while I feel my way around this new team and system. Let them think I suck. That is only going to make it that much sweeter when I roll out what I can really do. But not yet. Not enough cameras are on. It's not worth the risk of going all out and risking a freak injury before the big stage lights go in for the playoffs.

Reg season end April 13th.

Is he really done or is he playing Possum ? We are going to find out shortly. It is just really hard to believe he can't even hit a 3 anymore.

Anything is possible when you are talking about Gil and the way his mind works. He will never be worth his contract but I will be watching come playoff time to see if he shows up more than he has so far.

FAH1223 · Post #1015 » by **FAH1223** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 8:23 pm

Gil is done because mentally is shot

I don't think anything is wrong with him physically but his mind is in a different place

JonathanJoseph · Post #1016 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 9:10 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Gil is done because mentally is shot

I don't think anything is wrong with him physically but his mind is in a different place

This is the fascinating piece of this puzzle. Whatever is going on, it's mental not physical. That's not to say Arenas is physically the same player he was when he was a 28/29 ppg scorer, but he is physically the same as the player who averaged 22/7 in 09/10.

In March, Arenas was 30.5% FG%, 26.5% 3FG% with a 2.1/2.0 assist-to-turnover ratio. Perhaps the worst player in the NBA last month.

I have to believe this is the result of getting thrown under the bus by Grunfeld, losing a lot of money in the process, going from franchise player to afterthought and going through a nasty, public divorce.

Arenas needs a summer of Tim Grover and a pyschotherapist.

hands11 · Post #1017 » by **hands11** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 9:10 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Gil is done because mentally is shot

I don't think anything is wrong with him physically but his mind is in a different place

Remember my post if Gil shows up come playoff time.

If he doesn't, I wont be surprised but if he does, I won't be shocked.

Point is, we are talking about Gil. If he is going to do it, he will want everyone to watch him make a come back. I mean shooting under .400% from 2 and .300 from 3 ?

I'm not buying it just yet and I'm not even a Gil fan.

Post #1018 » by **nate33** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 9:24 pm

C'mon. You can't honestly believe that Gil has tanked for the entire season just to set himself up for a comeback in the playoffs.

The only way Gil comes back strong is if he gets over his mental block about pushing his knee 100% (assuming his knee is even capable of operating at 100% anymore).

hands11 · Post #1019 » by **hands11** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 9:30 pm

nate33 wrote:C'mon. You can't honestly believe that Gil has tanked for the entire season just to set himself up for a comeback in the playoffs.

The only way Gil comes back strong is if he gets over his mental block about pushing his knee 100% (assuming his knee is even capable of operating at 100% anymore).

I never said tank. Read what I actually wrote.

JonathanJoseph · Post #1020 » by **JonathanJoseph** » Sun Apr 3, 2011 9:46 pm

nate33 wrote:C'mon. You can't honestly believe that Gil has tanked for the entire season just to set himself up for a comeback in the playoffs.

The only way Gil comes back strong is if he gets over his mental block about pushing his knee 100% (assuming his knee is even capable of operating at 100% anymore).

We know that Arenas knee is capable of 22/7. The knee is not a valid excuse for falling from 22/7 to 10/4.

And no, dude is obviously not tanking. He's mentally in the tank.