Realgm's Top 25 most valuable players - vote for #15

[kwamebargnani]

Bogut

[shrink]

Aldridge has half the rebounds for three times the price, no three-point threat, and he's three years older.

I think I'll stick with Love

[skorff26]

Vote Gasol

[John Doe [MIN]]

@Guy986 and others

"Go-to scorer" isn't by definition more valuable than "in-the-flow-of-the-offense scorer." At this point, we're in "if this is your best player, you're not winning the championship" territory. And if we're debating value over guys that would be a #2 player on a contender, it's incorrect to say Aldridge's go-to scoring abilities are more important than all the extra things you get from Love and Horford. Maybe Aldridge gives you a better shot at getting from 25 to 45 wins than Love or Horford, but what's that really worth? An elite team would have a #1 option better than any of these guys, at which point Aldridge's go-to scoring ability, his only advantage in these arguments, isn't really all that valuable, while the things Love and Horford do significantly better than Aldridge would be just as beneficial as they are now.

With the Heat, we're even seeing that at a certain point, too many players with go-to scoring ability becomes redundant, even detrimental. That team would be mcuh better with Love or Horford in Bosh's place, because they'd get their points without needing anything run for them.

[x-]

Yes and Adelman didn't have to worry about chuck hayes getting foul trouble against Horford or Love because those guys aren't true back to the basket post up options. They're more put back, garbage man type opportunity scorers, hence the disparity in TS%. Aldridge can get you point in the paint as a first option. That my friend is the difference between Love/Horford and Aldridge right now.

Aldridge just has a very impressive arsenal of moves in his disposal both facing the basket and posting up. In that regard, he reminds me of Pau Gasol.

Maybe Horford has that ability as well. Maybe he just needs an opportnity like Aldridge. But i haven't seen it. Aldridge has proven that he can in fact carry a team as the first option.(not a huge sample size but its still better than nothing)

I guess it just comes down to how much you value a player being able to constantly create his own offense.

I do think that the Chuck Hayes argument is a bit flawed though.
The reason Hayes is much more likely to get in foul trouble against Aldridge is more so usage, than Horford being worse creating his own shot. And again, Horford may not be as gifted offensively, but opportunity and freedom plays a big part in how much guys do on offense. Before Roy got hurt, Aldridge, while having a decent arsenal of offensive moves, was mostly a jump shooting big man, playing the second fiddle on offense. There's no way we'd have doubled Aldridge back then. Now that Roy is a former shelf of himself, Aldridge became the go-to guy. Out of necessity. He's excelled in that role, but who's to say that Horford woudn't, if given the opportunity. (Again, remember that Horford is a year younger and has gotten better every single year.) I'm not saying he'll ever have the offensive repertoire Aldridge has, but I'd rather have a 17/10/4 guy, than a 20/8/2 guy, especially if the later player scores more effeciently and plays better defense.

Just my opinion though .

Aldridge has half the rebounds for three times the price, no three-point threat, and he's three years older.

I think I'll stick with Love

I actually think Love's contract is hurting his value a bit, because his 'low' salary makes it a bit harder to get back equal value and unlike Horford and Aldridge he's not locked up to a long derm deal.

The whole no defense, stat-stuffing, 25 win team issue is a whole nother thing I don't even wanna get into and the difference between those three guys in terms of value certainly isn't anything considerable.
Also like I said earlier, to each his own .

Sorry for making this a Aldridge-Horford-Love discussion.

Good night.

[Indy2thaWindy]

Vote: Al Horford

Nominate: Danny Granger

[The Rebel]

horford

[Guy986]

@Guy986 and others

"Go-to scorer" isn't by definition more valuable than "in-the-flow-of-the-offense scorer." At this point, we're in "if this is your best player, you're not winning the championship" territory. And if we're debating value over guys that would be a #2 player on a contender, it's incorrect to say Aldridge's go-to scoring abilities are more important than all the extra things you get from Love and Horford. Maybe Aldridge gives you a better shot at getting from 25 to 45 wins than Love or Horford, but what's that really worth? An elite team would have a #1 option better than any of these guys, at which point Aldridge's go-to scoring ability, his only advantage in these arguments, isn't really all that valuable, while the things Love and Horford do significantly better than Aldridge would be just as beneficial as they are now.

With the Heat, we're even seeing that at a certain point, too many players with go-to scoring ability becomes redundant, even detrimental. That team would be mcuh better with Love or Horford in Bosh's place, because they'd get their points without needing anything run for them.

Basically it comes down to how much we value Go-to-scorers vs opportunity scorers. I think if you take a look at the 14 names already on the list, you will have your answers. With the exception of John wall(who has the potential to be a go to scorer), all of those guys are scorers who can constantly create their own shot and be a legit #1 option.

[Dr Positivity]

Vote Pau Gasol

Pau is getting seriously underrated for being 30. Today's stars last until they're like 35-36. He's coming off 2 titles and a Finals near miss... you win with Pau Gasol

[Indy2thaWindy]

Vote Pau Gasol

Pau is getting seriously underrated for being 30. Today's stars last until they're like 35-36. He's coming off 2 titles and a Finals near miss... you win with Pau Gasol

Not by himself you don't.

[Dr Positivity]

@Guy986 and others

"Go-to scorer" isn't by definition more valuable than "in-the-flow-of-the-offense scorer." At this point, we're in "if this is your best player, you're not winning the championship" territory. And if we're debating value over guys that would be a #2 player on a contender, it's incorrect to say Aldridge's go-to scoring abilities are more important than all the extra things you get from Love and Horford. Maybe Aldridge gives you a better shot at getting from 25 to 45 wins than Love or Horford, but what's that really worth? An elite team would have a #1 option better than any of these guys, at which point Aldridge's go-to scoring ability, his only advantage in these arguments, isn't really all that valuable, while the things Love and Horford do significantly better than Aldridge would be just as beneficial as they are now.

With the Heat, we're even seeing that at a certain point, too many players with go-to scoring ability becomes redundant, even detrimental. That team would be mcuh better with Love or Horford in Bosh's place, because they'd get their points without needing anything run for them.

I can see that argument being used to vote Horford. But not Love. The extra value of Love's rebounds... albeit on a fast team without another great rebounder - is outweighed by his defensive inadequacy. I would rather have Aldridge as my 2nd best guy any day over Love.

I just can't bring myself to vote for Love with his Ws. We've seen players in previous years make this list with crappy teams - Harris, Granger, Jefferson, Martin, etc. They all come down to earth when people realize their stats are empty. I want to see Love win anything in his career before putting him over a true champion like Pau, or guys who pump out 50 win seasons in Horford and Aldridge

[Tommy Sneakers]

Aldridge

[donkeylips]

horford

[Vindicater]

Vote: Bogut, the only guy left you can build around (You can build around his defense)

[John Doe [MIN]]

Basically it comes down to how much we value Go-to-scorers vs opportunity scorers. I think if you take a look at the 14 names already on the list, you will have your answers. With the exception of John wall(who has the potential to be a go to scorer), all of those guys are scorers who can constantly create their own shot and be a legit #1 option.

I lay out 2 paragraph explanation of how it isn't cut and dry that go-to beats opportunity once you start leaving the elite, #1 guy on a contender players (which Aldridge is not), and you respond with, essentially, "Yeah, but still." Sure, Aldridge is indeed similar to the top 14 in that he is a go-to scorer. But he's different from them in that he's not nearly as good. Monta Ellis is a go-to scorer. So is Al Jefferson. Heck, Nick Young is a go-to scorer. It's better to have one of those guys as your go-to scorer than no go-to scorer, but once you get below a certain point, you're going to need a better go-to guy to be a real contender, and when that happens, the shot-creating ability of the second guy is moot (evidence: Aldridge as Roy's second fiddle). At that point, it's much better to have an Al Horford or Kevin Love, because they get their points more efficiently, and provide non-scoring skills that vastly outdo Aldridge's.

If your goal is to win 46 games, Aldridge is a better #1 than Love or Horford. If your goal is to win 60, Love or Horford is a better #2 than Aldridge.

[John Doe [MIN]]

I can see that argument being used to vote Horford. But not Love. The extra value of Love's rebounds... albeit on a fast team without another great rebounder - is outweighed by his defensive inadequacy. I would rather have Aldridge as my 2nd best guy any day over Love.

I just can't bring myself to vote for Love with his Ws. We've seen players in previous years make this list with crappy teams - Harris, Granger, Jefferson, Martin, etc. They all come down to earth when people realize their stats are empty. I want to see Love win anything in his career before putting him over a true champion like Pau, or guys who pump out 50 win seasons in Horford and Aldridge

Your second paragraph is solid. I wish you would have left it at that, because the first paragraph cheapens your point. There are plenty of reasons to hate on Kevin Love, but trying to discredit his stats is petty and stupid. Better to acknowledge that his stats are ridiculous and focus on the non-stat-based reasons you think he's overrated.

The Wolves' fast pace doesn't help Love's Rebound Percentage, which is league-leading and the best single season mark since the lockout year. No one felt the need to constantly point out how Dwight Howard had no competition for rebounds when he was leading the league. Love is also top 5 in the league in other pace-adjusted stats like PER and WS/48. Leave Kevin's stats alone!

[JoseRizal]

Vote: LMA

Nominate: BLopez

[WizardsWorld]

Id take Lopez over any of the guys left on the list.... hence Im nominated him the last 6 rounds or something.... but of who's on the actual list to vote Ill play by the rules and vote for:

Alridge

[mrblunt]

Aldridge

[Elden Payton]

Vote: Aldridge

Nominate: Iguodala