2011 MVP Discussion Thread Part 5

[NoMoreThrees]

You know I made my list of Kobe, Rose, Dirk. Then said no one else matters but I can't believe I left out Kevin Durant as a fourth candidate.

Just wanted to put his name in there for he deserves consideration. Won't win it, but, deserves the discussion all the same.

1. Kobe
2. Rose
3. Dirk
4. Durant

After that, well, there isn't anything to discuss as you're just not winning it.

Looking at the Spurs roster and stats man you just cannot imagine them being the top of the league but they are and there is no clear cut top player on that team. What a system and what a coach.

POP = COY.

Yet another man robbed of multiple COY titles. Second only to Jerry Sloan who deserved like ten. What's up with the league....

[sefant77]

Rose with 24 points 4 rebounds 9 assists 1 steal 2 blocks in 41min (leading all PGs in blocks).

If Rose is not the front runner for MVP right now, people need to pay more attention I guess.

Now imaging him going for 25/6/2/1 on 12 shots in just 27min, you would freak out, huh?

[NYK 455]

The efficiency argument keeps coming up, but it feels more like people in the corner shouting about it to get attention while everyone continues to say "we're not really tryin' to hear all that mess."

And then pointing to the win/loss column.

And then pointing to the fact that the Bulls are one of the best defensive and rebounding teams in the NBA, and Rose has been scoring with mediocre efficiency, and the Bulls are below average on offense.

Rose shouldn't win the MVP.

[barnett114]

Rose shouldn't win the MVP.

Why, because you said so?

[kingkirk]

The efficiency argument keeps coming up, but it feels more like people in the corner shouting about it to get attention while everyone continues to say "we're not really tryin' to hear all that mess."

And then pointing to the win/loss column.

And then pointing to the fact that the Bulls are one of the best defensive and rebounding teams in the NBA, and Rose has been scoring with mediocre efficiency, and the Bulls are below average on offense.

Rose shouldn't win the MVP.

if Rose isnt on this team were comparable to the Milwaukee Bucks. How they going by the way?

[Murk]

Rose shouldn't win the MVP.

When all is said and done, I'm positive that you won't feel like you wasted your time campaigning so hard against Rose.

[Bluewaterheaven]

Rose with 24 points 4 rebounds 9 assists 1 steal 2 blocks in 41min (leading all PGs in blocks).

If Rose is not the front runner for MVP right now, people need to pay more attention I guess.

Now imaging him going for 25/6/2/1 on 12 shots in just 27min, you would freak out, huh?

No I would actually be extremely pissed of is Rose was just averaging 2 assists per game. That would take him completely out of the MVP race, and make the Bulls drop a seed or two in the standings. Even if he was super efficient about it, he would not be doing the Most important thing, and that would be getting his teammates involved.

Now why don't you go sit in the corner for making such a stupid suggestion as that.

[sefant77]

Rose with 24 points 4 rebounds 9 assists 1 steal 2 blocks in 41min (leading all PGs in blocks).

If Rose is not the front runner for MVP right now, people need to pay more attention I guess.

Now imaging him going for 25/6/2/1 on 12 shots in just 27min, you would freak out, huh?

No I would actually be extremely pissed of is Rose was just averaging 2 assists per game. That would take him completely out of the MVP race, and make the Bulls drop a seed or two in the standings. Even if he was super efficient about it, he would not be doing the Most important thing, and that would be getting his teammates involved.

Now why don't you go sit in the corner for making such a stupid suggestion as that.

Crying like a kid losing his favorite toy

[DerrickandKirk]

Kinda tired of efficiency bitches, man. Go see games, people.

[wade wilson]

As a voter there are 2 ways that you can interpret the mvp award a player who is most valuable to a team which is a top seed or a player which placed on any team becomes a contender hence most valuable player in the league. If rose is mvp which category does he fall into? I would say the 1st since he is the most valuable player to chicago but placed on other teams would have to alter his play as he does not have the offensive skill or defensive to carry a team like lebron or dwight. But if you select rose why do you not consider dirk as both are equally important to there team and both have similar stats if you consider advanced (rose has better raw stats). I have rose as mvp atm but what grounds are there to dismiss dirk alltogether?
this question is for the rose homers who think even the thought of dirk or dwight getting mvp ova rose is jus tom foolery.

[wade wilson]

You know I made my list of Kobe, Rose, Dirk. Then said no one else matters but I can't believe I left out Kevin Durant as a fourth candidate.

Just wanted to put his name in there for he deserves consideration. Won't win it, but, deserves the discussion all the same.

1. Kobe
2. Rose
3. Dirk
4. Durant

After that, well, there isn't anything to discuss as you're just not winning it.

Looking at the Spurs roster and stats man you just cannot imagine them being the top of the league but they are and there is no clear cut top player on that team. What a system and what a coach.

POP = COY.

Yet another man robbed of multiple COY titles. Second only to Jerry Sloan who deserved like ten. What's up with the league....

You think Durant has a better chance at winning mvp over howard? not sure if this is a serious post?

[TheRunKiller]

8-21.

I guess you think then also that Iverson was 2001 the true MVP...

seriously was this necessary? public warning.

[TheRunKiller]

8-21.

I guess you think then also that Iverson was 2001 the true MVP...

check the box score, yep everyone on the bulls was killing tonight dude..korver 2-8 deng 2-12
boozer was the only one that was scoring and brewer was the only one scoring off the bench

I think rose should have shot more

[hironimus]

8-21.

I guess you think then also that Iverson was 2001 the true MVP...

check the box score, yep everyone on the bulls was killing tonight dude..korver 2-8 deng 2-12
boozer was the only one that was scoring and brewer was the only one scoring off the bench

I think rose should have shot more

well, that points to the fact that the bulls offense sucks. i noticed that when i watched the 2 miami - chicago games ... everyone talks about great defensive battles and i have to admit you play awesome defense, but if you have to rely on rose it looks stagnant. it just looks awful at times. that is a very small sample size at my size, but thats my impression.

on another note: dirk made a possible game winner with 3 seconds left. if zbo wouldnt make his prayer rainbow everyone would be drooling about dirks game winner but most people dont know about that shot because they didnt watch the dallas game. its just impossible to watch all games so most of the information comes out of boxscores and media reports (game recaps etc) - which can be tainted but give at least some quantifiable datas

[alucryts]

8-21.

I guess you think then also that Iverson was 2001 the true MVP...

check the box score, yep everyone on the bulls was killing tonight dude..korver 2-8 deng 2-12
boozer was the only one that was scoring and brewer was the only one scoring off the bench

I think rose should have shot more

well, that points to the fact that the bulls offense sucks. i noticed that when i watched the 2 miami - chicago games ... everyone talks about great defensive battles and i have to admit you play awesome defense, but if you have to rely on rose it looks stagnant. it just looks awful at times. that is a very small sample size at my size, but thats my impression.

on another note: dirk made a possible game winner with 3 seconds left. if zbo wouldnt make his prayer rainbow everyone would be drooling about dirks game winner but most people dont know about that shot because they didnt watch the dallas game. its just impossible to watch all games so most of the information comes out of boxscores and media reports (game recaps etc) - which can be tainted but give at least some quantifiable datas

that was the craziest ending ever i was like DAM when memphis won lol.

but on rose, you should see our offense when he doesnt run it........oof there are no words. we have defensive minded defensive players and a really good offensive player is trying to get them to play offense. a really good offensive player on a GREAT defense is extremely valuable because without him, you get last years bobcats or this years bucks.

people love to throw out the team concept in MVP and say well they are winning because of defense. well, if you dont have a very good team you arent winning 55+.....

[Bluewaterheaven]

Now imaging him going for 25/6/2/1 on 12 shots in just 27min, you would freak out, huh?

No I would actually be extremely pissed of is Rose was just averaging 2 assists per game. That would take him completely out of the MVP race, and make the Bulls drop a seed or two in the standings. Even if he was super efficient about it, he would not be doing the Most important thing, and that would be getting his teammates involved.

Now why don't you go sit in the corner for making such a stupid suggestion as that.

Crying like a kid losing his favorite toy

Thats the only argument you have? If Rose was averaging that the bulls would be worse. You can't have your point guard averaging 2 assists. Thats just illogical. There is no crying involved.

Dirk is a good player, Better then Rose even, and equal in MVP standings. I would not be disappointed if he won. But your argument is just horrible, and it makes you look like a complete (Please Use More Appropriate Word) for posting it. Your basketball knowledge is lacking, and your posts remind me of someone who only looks at the stats and thinks he knows what is going on. Quite honestly you come off like a five year old who is throwing a tantrum in a store because he can't get his way.

[lukeman89]

rose's attitude has been adopted by the whole team. all you hear them say is they are playing well but they can get better. d rose doesn't care about anything but WINNING. thats the only thing he thinks about as shown by his text to lebron. He has silently proclaimed that the chicago bulls are his team and they will be filled with players that share his attitude. I'm sure he would approach recruiting any player the same way. If the words "i just wanna win" are enough to recruit a player, then drose wants him. its not enough for lebron, so rose doesnt want him.

clearly lebron thinks about more than winning. he wants the spotlight and wants the power of a team living and dying by him. he wants the publicity and the attention and he still wants to prove hes THE LEADER of a championship team. he only wants to win if hes the reason why. He refers to "My Team". lebron you can claim it to be your team all you want, but you need people to play WITH you, not FOR you.

bulls have a happy clubhouse because rose is a great leader to play with. he knows he can't do it by himself and thats why you see the bulls winning lately. they are playing great team basketball and it is all held together because of the attitude. rose's motivation is to win and be the best player he can be, noah knows what it takes to win and has been an emotional leader on teams his whole life, boozer: "i didnt come here for all-star games, i came here for championships" is the right attitude. deng is above average at every aspect of the game on both ends of the floor. The bulls clubhouse does not allow any "me-first" attitudes that seem so apparent in miami.

it seems at times lebron doesnt know he is playing with another superstar and goes into cleveland mode. drose ran the same play at the end of the game against the heat in feb that lebron has failed on two times. ISO play and drive to the hoop, drose made the dish to deng in the corner (the smart play), lebron tries to live up to the "king" name he has given himself by making the shot all by himself twice. and twice he fails, getting D'ed up and then complaining that he got fouled.

i am biased because im a bulls fan and watch the bulls way more than any other team but i have been trying to watch more teams lately. Dwight Howard wants to win and he is slightly more abrasive than drose would be. I dont see drose calling out his players ever but Dwights decision to do so has payed off. He is an MVP candidate. There is no doubt that my comments about drose's attitude can be compared to bryants impact on his team as well. He wants to win in a way jordan wanted to. hes not as good as jordan, but he is drivin by the same attitude. I dont know much about Dirks leadership qualities or his attitude so i can't really comment. But as it stands right now, my MVP rankings are

Rose
Dwight
Kobe
Dirk

Lebron

[jc23]

The latest argument against Rose on this board seems to be Chicago offense is mediocre and their defense is elite so Rose is not very valuable at all.

Well if you take Rose out of the equation the Bulls offense would be horrendous. I mean you do realize that Rose allows his teammates to get wide open shots because of the attention he gets (just watch a game the commentators say it regularly). That would mean no more open shots for Korver/Bogans/Deng/Taj/EVERYBODY!

For the comment on how defense is what makes the Bulls so great, all i will say is Rose plays 38-40 minutes a game and during that time period he also has to play defense (believe or not). Which in my mind makes him a BIG part of that 'elite' defense. Since the main argument against him is statistical I will point out this article about Rose's defense (full of stats).....

http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/ ... h-defense/

Jan,19

More outstanding yet are Rose’s individual defensive numbers. According to Synergy Sports Technology, Rose has allowed just 0.77 points per possession overall on defense this season, an elite mark for any defender, regardless of position. Chris Paul (0.86 points per possession allowed), Rajon Rondo (0.83 PPP allowed), and Russell Westbrook (0.92 PPP allowed)

Rose is particularly effective in defending isolation sequences, where he allows just 0.61 points per possession.

Don't bring up Hollinger or efficiency if you don't want to reference this article.

[cool007]

The latest argument against Rose on this board seems to be Chicago offense is mediocre and their defense is elite so Rose is not very valuable at all.

Well if you take Rose out of the equation the Bulls offense would be horrendous. I mean you do realize that Rose allows his teammates to get wide open shots because of the attention he gets (just watch a game the commentators say it regularly). That would mean no more open shots for Korver/Bogans/Deng/Taj/EVERYBODY!

People probably don't pay attention but even on National TV they showed that Rose is the BEST in the league at generating offfense for his team (45%).

That is the best among any player in the NBA.

If that doesn't answer the question then you can also watch games.

[BrooklynBulls]

It's ridiculous, and it's always been that way, to associate a guard's quality with the offensive quality of his team. Rose IS a good defender, but he's not close to the reason our defense is amazing. You can thank our interior defenders minus Boozer, plus Thomas Thibodeau, a dude who should probably be COY, depending on what happens for the rest of the season.

But here's the point: A guard playing in a poor offense doesn't mean that he's not a fantastic offensive player. The Bulls are a defensive team because Rose is like 2.5 offensive players in one. He DRAGS that starting lineup to a mediocre offensive level, allowing us to play defensive-first, second, and third players like Asik, Noah, Brewer, Bogans, Gibson. Those players aren't all useless on offense, but their offense affects our overall offense like Rose's defense affects our overall defense: some, but not that much.


People need to stop separating offense and defense, because this is not baseball. One turns fluidly into the other, and they cannot be parsed out. You can't substitute Ronnie Brewer just for defensive purposes without calling a timeout every time down. You have to live with his defender playing free safety. You can do that when you have Derrick Rose because he'll split two consecutive doubles then finish over everybody's outstretched hands. It's not going to be the most efficient offense, but it allows for an impact defender at the 2-3 spot. How is that concept not achingly clear?

I'm really sick of the Nash arguments that state he's the best offensive player ever because he's had the best offenses ever. Nash had offensive teams that were engineered for perfection. You can scream the suns have no talent all you want, but what you mean to say is they have no defensive or rebounding talent. Scrubslike Hakim Warrick can really score when there's an open middle. Which there is, courtesy of the 3-4 3 point shooters the Suns keep on the floor at all times. Basically ignoring defensive need. Yeesh.