Suns(32-28) at Thunder(38-22) Game #61 - Poll added

[Fat_Borbath]

Vince Carter is the definition of mediocre in clutch situations. Rarely hits clutch shots in big games. Misses a lot. Has a nice clutch highlight real due to the fact he always takes the shots. Can't create a play for a teammate in clutch scenarios if his life depended on it either.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X3xDruc6oY[/youtube]
3:03-4:00


I can show you about 10 more clips with VC making some nice plays in close games for you, but let's not lie here. Your here to rag on Vince Carter and whatever I show you won't make a difference.

and your telling everyone that Vince Carter is not clutch, he's just mediocre because he takes ALOT of
made shots...that's some real smart logic right there.

"now and 4life" is a known troll and liar. Any time Vince Carter is brought up, but it the Suns, Raptors, General, or even Magic board, he is there to bash and criticize Carter. Check his post history.

[Fat_Borbath]

the suns are screwed if carter becomes their go to guy. this guy has been a chocker his whole career and that streak wont end.

^^^
I was just reading this thread but was compelled to sign in just to reply to this. Don't talk about what you don't know!

Most clutch players for the past decade are Kobe and VC. There was an article with the stats somewhere. If I find it I'll post the link.

Criteria: Player scores with 24secs or less left in the game. Whether there's time on the clock or if it's at the buzzer.

VC15 and KB24

VC's playoff avg was 26ppg until that Orlando stint brought it down to 23ppg Not too shabby IMHO.

kthxbai

The claim that they're the top two cluch over the last decade couldn't be further from the truth.

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_ ... runch-time

According to your link, Kobe is #1 with 36 makes, and Vince is #2 with 31 makes. So you're not exactly helping your cause.

[Fat_Borbath]

Well, I'm actually on the side of Vince Carter being more "clutch" than not in the 4th quarter over the course of his career....so I don't need too much convincing on that front.

But that's all in the past.

So that three pointer he hit with 9 seconds left in 4th quarter yesterday was not "clutch"?

[Fat_Borbath]

You've made a statement without any numbers, facts, sources, or links to back up your claim. We call that a lie.

No, that's an 'opinion' - a lie requires conscious knowledge of the facts while stating otherwise

as in, "your post was well-considered and useful. We are happy to have you here."

No, it was a lie. "nowand4life" does have concious knowledge of the facts, because people (including myself) have told him the facts time and time again in this and other threads. But thank you for your well-considered and useful post John. We are happy to have you here.

[Miklo]

Fat_Borbath enough with calling out posters, "let the big boys talk", calling out now and 4 life as a troll, etc. This thread already contains so many post edits, warnings and suspensions, you should take the hint.

And to everyone....TOS violations are done in this thread. With all the action taken already, it needs to go to automatic warnings for first time and suspensions for people with recent warnings. I tried to keep it drama free

Maybe next time we can just

[BurningHeart]

According to your link, Kobe is #1 with 36 makes, and Vince is #2 with 31 makes. So you're not exactly helping your cause.

Yeah, maybe you should look at things more specifically. How about attempts and percentages? Kobe has had 115 such attempts in that situation, and Vince has had 96 or something. By far the most two. Their efficiency in such a situation is awful, and no the link is not hurting my cause.

As for the Vince shot thing, dude, didn't you read my post? I guess not. I'm more pro "Vince-being-clutch" than against it, but most of those instances are well in the past. It was a refreshing change for him to be hitting those two huge threes last night, obviously he can't do it all the time anymore.

My goodness gracious.

[impulsenine]

I have a statistic that proves that Pat Burke has the most blood in his left heel than any player in history, and that makes him the best ever. It also proves that you're all wrong, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

It's PROOF. PROOF I SAY.

[DRK]

Yeah? Well I have video PROOF that Pat Burke has the most luscious hair of any Suns player in HISTORY.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFCCiohVoM[/youtube]

[Fat_Borbath]

According to your link, Kobe is #1 with 36 makes, and Vince is #2 with 31 makes. So you're not exactly helping your cause.

Yeah, maybe you should look at things more specifically. How about attempts and percentages? Kobe has had 115 such attempts in that situation, and Vince has had 96 or something. By far the most two. Their efficiency in such a situation is awful, and no the link is not hurting my cause.

No.

But shoot above the league average of 29.7% according to your link. Of course their efficiency is going to be below their overall career FG%. It's much harder to score in such a situation. Above average efficiency is not "awful". Awful by definition is way, way below average.

So you've said the two players with the most makes, both shooting above average percentage wise are poor in the clutch. You ARE huring your argument. Or did you not notice that only two players on that entire list are above 45%, and both have less than 50 attempts (which should probably have been the cutoff, but that's another matter).

[morpheus23]

Exactly. We discussed his past clutchness because someone said "he has never been". Thjat's talking about his past. Hence the discussion.

Anyhoo, fans of the NBA, far less VC, know about him and his clutchness.

Yeah... fair enough.

Many here play the fingerpointing name game. Most refuse to be enlightened. Its dangerous to use 'never', 'always', and 'everyone' in forums like these. I think most will agree, as a Sun, Vince has had only a fistful of the games he became admired for. He has not contributed much new material to his highlight clips. He does have an OMG legacy though.

Oh well... He was not the focus of his own trade. It will be interesting to see what happens in the off season. He is likely more valuable then.


WOFT ???

Win On Free Throws ?

^^LoL. Good one .

My apologies on that statement guys. Was just a lil pissed. The Suns have improved.

Believe me back in 93 Finals I was backing the Suns. So I ain't no bandwagonnist.

[now and 4 life]

According to the 82 games list the king of efficiency Iverson has a better shooting percentage when it comes to game winning shots than Carter.

[morpheus23]

^^So??

[Miklo]

This is definitely the first I've ever locked a game thread but it is going nowhere, just around in circles arguing about VC. Putting this phase behind the Suns board since last night we moved on to a mature, enjoyable game thread