Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[TheDunc]

Perry Jones definetley has the highest risk/reward out of anybody in this draft. The guy is almost 7 feet tall but jumps like the best of them. He runs the floor quicker then point guards. He has some very good handles for his size. His shooting stroke seems decent. Its just a question if he can put it all together. I could see him on our squad. One things for sure is that any team picking him will have to be patient. Im warming up to alot of prospects but no one is blowing me away at this point. Perry Jones might end up going top 3 though after workouts.

[Double Helix]

7) Jerryd Sullinger

Reasons: This low down is unlikely but if we were still here I'd have to think long and hard about it. I really don't get a good feeling about this guy at all and I've watched him play a lot and looked for positives. I get serious Michael Sweetney/Shaun May impressions in that I think he's a college star that won't dominate at the next level and I much prefer Amir/Ed to him right now. I'd mostly grab him to look to make a trade involving him or any of our other bigs.

I get those comparisons but Jared Sullinger has managed to lose a fair bit of weight already and by all accounts seems to be a really good kid (check out good features on him here and here).

He's been extremely productive as a freshman (far moreso than Sean May or Michael Sweetney were). I'm not sure he'll be able to translate his college game to the NBA either, but I think you're selling him a little short in favour of some other pretty flawed prospects.

I agree he has more upside than either of those two but who is better than those types and below Kevin Love's success in recent memory as an undersized PF that's not terribly athletic. I won't be surprised if Sullinger actually measures out as being less of an athlete than Love. He looks more crafty than athletic to me when I watch him and while that can give you a big leg-up against other teenagers there are a lot of big, strong, athletic crafty veterans at the PF spot in the NBA.

I'm trying hard to imagine him being an impact PF but I'm not just seeing it. Can you think of a good NBA comparison right now?

A smaller Zach Randolph perhaps?

[Reignman]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, "Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment."

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Derrick Williams isnt talked about much anymore but can he really play the 3? Any nba comparisons? ive heard a more athletic corliss williamson. I wonder how bc's draft board is looking. For some reason i have a feeling if he cant get Kyrie Irving he will either go after Perry Jones or Harrison Barnes.

To me, he's a 4, through and through. I think asking him to play the 3 would minimize his strengths and draw attention to his weaknesses.

Going from 4 to 3 is a much bigger deal than some assume, like going from 2 to 1. The terms "combo guard" and "tweener" exist because most players can't do it, and the word "starter" is usually found in a different sentence from those terms.

Henson might be seen as an Ed Davis-type of safe pick this year, he might go in the top half of the lotto considering all of the size/character/position issues some of the top-rated bigs have.

[Double Helix]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, "Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment."

That makes me want to put him right back at #2 where he once was. If D. Williams can't play SF I''d drop him much lower than where I had him.

[yayotube]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, "Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment."

That's exactly how I feel. He's not a god damn center or even PF. He's a wing and Baylor should have given him opportunities to play point-forward before the suspension, especially when Dunn is your Pg.

P.s. I know you're a Barnes supporter, he has 16 pts of UNC's 28 although they're down by 12

[Big Shot]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, [b]"Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment." [/b]

That means Bargs thinks he is a SF when BC and the coaching staff think he is a C. Therefore, it is a huge disappointment.

[Reignman]

Yup, I had some concerns about Perry being a tweener but every scouting report I've read on him talks about him the same way, he's a SF and not a traditional big man.

The question is, what kind of defense could he play against NBA SFs? I'm guessing he'd be a sag-off-and-recover type of defender because of his length and speed. Rebounding probably would be above average for the SF spot as well.

Only concern is that he doesn't really have a 3 pt shot but if his touch is as soft as they claim then he shouldn't have too much of a problem developing it.

[yayotube]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, [b]"Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment." [/b]

That means Bargs thinks he is a SF when BC and the coaching staff think he is a C. Therefore, it is a huge disappointment.

I know what you mean, but Bargs has no where near the lateral quicks/handles to be a SF. That's the difference between him and Perry Jones - Perry Jones actually has the quickness and the handles to be a wing player. It's especially clear when he can bring the ball up the court in drills faster than any of the "guards" on Baylor.

[sunny]

I wont be in these threads that much over the next while, but if anyone has any questions about D will; I will and answer them as well as I can.

Just some things to note:
kevin o'neil was drunk and attacked an Arizona booster last night. USC (KO's team) plays Arizona tonight in the pac 10 semi's).
Last night, D Will shot 5/6 from 3. His percentage is is getting scary.

Some things to realize about Derrick. He came out of nowhere in highschool and was hardly recruited. He committed to USC in November of 2008 to be a small forward. He grew a huge amount and had a monster year in grade 12. When he decommitted from USC, a lot of teams were after him and he started getting more respect. Despite this, most scouting services didnt care about him due to the fact that his highschool was relativiely unknown, he wasnt that impressive till grade 12, and he didnt have a recruiting spectacle. So yes, he was underrated coming out of highschool, but he still developed at an insane rate as soon as he got to Arizona.

Anyways--
Arizona does not have a real point guard. This makes it very hard for Dwill to get the ball in prime spots and as often as the team might like.
Arizona does not have any Centres (or really any powerfowards). As a result, D will has to play the 4-5; this is not his natural position by any means.
Arizona plays TEAM basketball. I know a lot of teams play team ball, but Sean Miller's teams take it to a new level. D will is so efficient because he uses his skills to help his team play smarter basketball. He doesnt take 20 shots a game because it would be detrimental to the team. He might get insane statlines every game, but the team functions best with him passing out and shooting 3's.
It is also amazing to consider how good at driving in tight areas, getting to the line and taking almost all good shots (seriously, look at his percentages).

Another thing that was recently posted on a website that I thought was a good tidbit.

Let me just clarify something for those of you who may not follow recruiting as closely as some of us do:

There is a huge difference between a "recruiting guru" and a "talent evaluator." A HUGE difference. Example:

- Dave Telep is a recruiting guru. He knows the kids, he's a good communicator, and he has a twitter account. He's a good source to get recruiting info from because the HS kids trust him, he's got good sources, and again, he has a twitter account. That's why ESPN hired him. This will from now on be referenced as the "Dave Telep Category."

- Paul Biancardi is a talent evaluator. He's actually been a college basketball coach at some point in his life (not a requirement, but pretty solid on a resume). He knows exactly what to look for when watching a kid play, and when asked, can explain clearly, concisely, and with little effort exactly what makes a kid good or bad. This will from now on be referenced as the "I know what the **** I'm talking about when it comes to player rankings Category."

Other guys that fall into the "Dave Telep Category": Evan Daniels, Eric Bossi, Jerry Meyer, Alex Kline, etc., etc., etc.

Other guys that fall into the "I know what the **** I'm talking about when it comes to player rankings Category": Van Coleman and Clark Francis. From my experiences, THAT'S IT.

Although this is in regards to highschool basketball, I think a similar type of concept applies to the nba draft. Some guys have connections with the ncaa teams and the nba teams and talk about what they hear. Other guys actually evaluate the players.
Completely different paradigms.

[Reignman]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, [b]"Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment." [/b]

That means Bargs thinks he is a SF when BC and the coaching staff think he is a C. Therefore, it is a huge disappointment.

Actually, that's an apt comparison, Bargs does play like a SF and always has yet we keep trying to force this guy into a role that he has no clue how to play. The problem with Bargs at SF is that he can't defend his position (actually, that's his problem at any position which is why he should be a bench player).

That's essentially the same question I have for P Jones, what kind of defender will he be at SF? He doesn't need to be great but he needs to be adequate at the very least, there's a ton of very talented players at that position.

[Rhettmatic]

I agree he has more upside than either of those two but who is better than those types and below Kevin Love's success in recent memory as an undersized PF that's not terribly athletic. I won't be surprised if Sullinger actually measures out as being less of an athlete than Love. He looks more crafty than athletic to me when I watch him and while that can give you a big leg-up against other teenagers there are a lot of big, strong, athletic crafty veterans at the PF spot in the NBA.

I'm trying hard to imagine him being an impact PF but I'm not just seeing it. Can you think of a good NBA comparison right now?

A smaller Zach Randolph perhaps?

Well he and Z-Bo are both listed at 6-9 and Sullinger just turned 19 like a week ago so I'm not even sure if he is/will be any smaller.

(I know DX has Sullinger at 6-8 but I haven't seen that anywhere else, so maybe we'll have to wait for the combine).

I do think a non-headcase Randolph is a decent comparison. I've heard Elton Brand too but I don't necessarily see the potential for Brand-level defence. I think even Carlos Boozer could be an OK comparison (EDIT: this last one is obviously pretty optimistic, before anyone rips me).

[Big Shot]

I just wanted to say raps shouldn't have drafted Bargs at all if they thought he couldn't play at SF. Yeah I agree he couldn't play at SF.

[yayotube]

I agree he has more upside than either of those two but who is better than those types and below Kevin Love's success in recent memory as an undersized PF that's not terribly athletic. I won't be surprised if Sullinger actually measures out as being less of an athlete than Love. He looks more crafty than athletic to me when I watch him and while that can give you a big leg-up against other teenagers there are a lot of big, strong, athletic crafty veterans at the PF spot in the NBA.

I'm trying hard to imagine him being an impact PF but I'm not just seeing it. Can you think of a good NBA comparison right now?

A smaller Zach Randolph perhaps?

Well he and Z-Bo are both listed at 6-9 and Sullinger just turned 19 like a week ago so I'm not even sure if he is/will be any smaller.

(I know DX has Sullinger at 6-8 but I haven't seen that anywhere else, so maybe we'll have to wait for the combine).

I do think a non-headcase Randolph is a decent comparison. I've heard Elton Brand too but I don't necessarily see the potential for Brand-level defence. I think even Carlos Boozer could be an OK comparison.

I see a slightly less athletic DeJaun Blair but with a better post game and 2 knees

[Reignman]

Here's an excerpt from Insider on Perry Jones:

However, you can't watch him play for long and not love his potential. Jones is one of the most skilled, athletic big men I've scouted. He has a lot of Tracy McGrady and Lamar Odom to his game. The problem for Jones has more to do with how Baylor uses him than his actual skill set. Jones is a 6-11 guard being forced to play center. He looks comfortable bringing the ball up the floor and playing on the perimeter. But he doesn't have much of a low post game at this point and often is left just standing around looking for offensive boards.

I understand the dilemma for coach Scott Drew. Jones is a terrific rebounder and is Baylor's biggest player. But the Bears struggle in part because they don't have a point guard to set up players like Jones. If I were Drew, I'd scrap convention and let Jones run the point. He's the team's best and most willing passer. He's got a nice touch on his jump shot and is quick enough to get into the lane. It's unconventional, but Jones is an unconventional player.

On the right NBA team, with a coach who accepts him for who he is, he'll be a monster. It's rare to find his athletic gifts in a player his size. If a coach tries to force him into the middle in the NBA, he'll struggle. Said one scout in Hawaii, "Players are who they think they are, not who you think they are. Perry Jones thinks like a point guard, not a big man. That's where his heart is. Embrace that and he's going to be amazing. Fight it and he could be a huge disappointment."

That's exactly how I feel. He's not a god damn center or even PF. He's a wing and Baylor should have given him opportunities to play point-forward before the suspension, especially when Dunn is your Pg.

P.s. I know you're a Barnes supporter, he has 16 pts of UNC's 28 although they're down by 12[/quote]

Thanks, 15/4 on 6/10 shooting so far but UNC is down about 15 right now. I'm assuming they make a run at some point and catch up, Marshall is shooting 0-5 so he needs to pick it up.

[jsmith]

NC on a big run! Barnes having a solid game

[FluLikeSymptoms]

UNC just flipped the switch. Wow. 12-0 run, 4pt game.

[Reignman]

You're right! UNC down only 51-55 with Barnes shooting 7-11 for 18/4/2.

[Rhettmatic]

You're right! UNC down only 51-55 with Barnes shooting 7-11 for 18/4/2.

I can't watch the game, unfortunately, but I see that he's taken 8 threes. Has he been scoring in other ways or just taking jumpers?

[baulderdash77]

Henson's beasting today 10/13 with 5 blocks.