Jazz GM knew Melo-drama loser will get DWill

[magnumt]

- After Sloan left, most GMs assumed Deron was not available (...yet). Heck, King was contacted by O'Connor, not the other way around.

- King also has a better relationship with O'Connor going back to their Philly days (something the both of them acknowledged).

- Was their a lacking of due-diligence just before getting Melo? Ofcourse, Donnie admits that. But let's not act like NY got robbed, and is a MUCH worse Team because of it.

- At the end of the day both NY and Denver got what they wanted (something that can't always be said for Mega-Deals in the NBA). NY also got more veteran leadership by also adding Billups over Felton (both on and off the court, as I alluded in my prior post above).

- There's also the possibility of NY going after Billups or Paul in 2012 (not saying it'll happen, just saying it's a possibility).

So in short: Not everything is as "obvious" as it should seem.

--Mags

Which is why assuming is not good for GMs. Walsh should have pursued Williams like King did.

Their relationship isn't that big of a deal either. A trades a trade.

And no NYC didn't get robbed. Far from it. But they went for the wrong player.

And no theres not. Chris Paul isn't signing for the vets minimum.

Do you work in an NBA Front Office? Neither of us do.

And yes, yes they do. Relationships play a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge role in Trades in all Major Sports. Both good and bad.

You're a Nets fan, how exactly would you know with sweeping assertion that the Knicks went after the wrong Player, when at the time only 1 of those 2 were available (and NY landed that one).

Also, let's not forget that your very own Nets went HARD after said Player (making themselves look quite foolish in the process too). With Deron being the consolation prize (which he would've been for NY had NJ landed Melo).

Also, as I mentioned earlier, NY still has a vet PG in Billups as well as 2012.

We don't need Chris Paul to sign the Vets Minimum in 2012, we will have Cap Space. With Amar'e and Melo each making approximately $20 Million each, and a cap-hold of about $5 Million max for Landry Fields. Adding in another $3-4 Million in Roster Cap Holds.

Again, you're making those same "obvious" sweeping assertions I alluded to above. You don't know, nor can you tell the future. So to say with complete certainty that "X,Y,Z" will not happen in 2012, etc is false (no matter how much you want to deny it).

--Mags

[NOOB77]

Why is that the Jazz beat the Nuggets in the playoffs therefore DWill > Melo ??? That makes no sense at all. And has no barring on who the better players is. You say DWill lost two starters well Melo lost his starting power forward and his head coach. Like Melo stunk up the place also. He averaged 30.7 PPG 8.5 Rebounds 3.3 assists and 2 steals a game and played 42 minutes.....Yes that is really really crappy and clearly his fault the team lost....

So this year Melo's team will make the playoff and DWill's team will not make the playoffs so therefore Melo > DWill?? Or how about both Melo's teams this year will make the playoffs and both DWill's will not..

Or Melo just beat LBJ and Wade so therefore Melo > LBJ and Wade ???

Those are just idiotic responses.


I believe PG's are way overrated in this league. When is the last time a PG was the best player on a championship team? Maybe Billups was the Pistons best player maybe? But go through the past winners? Boston NO, Lakers NO, Bulls NO, Spurs NO, Rockets NO. The notion that you need a PG to win or that PG is the most valuable player on the floor is false.

Yes I think Melo is a better player than DWill.....

[devv83]

ummmmm why are people acting like Melo sucked in the playoffs last yr against Utah

I remember him avg 30 8 and 3 on 48% shooting. Damn Melo was awful

Dwill might be a better player but using last yrs playoffs to prove it is completely off base and stupid

[magnumt]

- Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Elton Brand, etc all heard the same thing too.

The pundits aren't always right.

- Billups also has an EXCELLENT health and workout regime (ala Amar'e). I think they'll be fine. And since Billups arrival, Douglas has stepped up his Game into a more reliable backup PG in just his Sophomore Year (something I alluded to in my prior posts in this Thread too).

- In closing, who said anything about NY wining a Title this Year? Most of the Media and fanbase knows we're not. We're just going to use the Playoff Experiences to help the Team grow.

The Team has gelled MUCH faster though than anyone (myself included) would've though (and I alluded to this in another recent GB Thread too).

--Mags

Elton Brand is on the decline. And those players want to stay where they are. Why would Billups bother staying in NY if he's from Denver and was happiest there. It seems clear that he wasn't very happy with the trade.

I'm not saying anyone thinks NY is winning a title. I'm saying that Billups is a short term asset and it's going to take the Knicks at least 1 or 2 years to become title contenders.

- They're all on the decline, but they're not "rapidly declining" as you falsely alluded to you in your post.

- All of the examples I mentioned are still playing at an above 75% level. Nash, Brand, Kidd, and Billups too.

Heck, NY has even adjusted their System and Style of play to accommodate that of Billups and Melo (who play a mixture of half-court and open-court).

- Again, more assertions by you as if you're in direct contact and in-the-know with these guys. Nash loves the Suns, Kidd likes Dallas, and Brand likes Philly. But they changed jerseys in their careers and said the same things about their prior homes too. Billups loooooooooved it in Detroit and equally loved it in Denver. There's nothing to show that he's not going to love it in NY, and/or that he hasn't.

So until that happens, you're sweeping assertions are nothing but OPINIONS and NOT based on any factual stuff.

- Yes, that's exactly what we've been saying. Felton was also just a 2 Year Option as well for NY (which in turn was an upgrade over Duhon). NY isn't winning a Title this Year, nor do they expect to (I already covered that aspect in my prior posts in this Thread). This is a gradual move to get there, and one that is in the right direction.

--Mags

[jeff1624]

This is irrelevant. Both teams are happy with the guys they got, what else is there to talk about?

[Knickz4life88]

- After Sloan left, most GMs assumed Deron was not available (...yet). Heck, King was contacted by O'Connor, not the other way around.

- King also has a better relationship with O'Connor going back to their Philly days (something the both of them acknowledged).

- Was their a lacking of due-diligence just before getting Melo? Ofcourse, Donnie admits that. But let's not act like NY got robbed, and is a MUCH worse Team because of it.

- At the end of the day both NY and Denver got what they wanted (something that can't always be said for Mega-Deals in the NBA). NY also got more veteran leadership by also adding Billups over Felton (both on and off the court, as I alluded in my prior post above).

- There's also the possibility of NY going after Billups or Paul in 2012 (not saying it'll happen, just saying it's a possibility).

So in short: Not everything is as "obvious" as it should seem.

--Mags

Which is why assuming is not good for GMs. Walsh should have pursued Williams like King did.

Their relationship isn't that big of a deal either. A trades a trade.

And no NYC didn't get robbed. Far from it. But they went for the wrong player.

And no theres not. Chris Paul isn't signing for the vets minimum.

Donnie Walsh brings up how this deal keeps his options open to sign another max cat and i think he knows alittle more then you know so i wouldnt exactly say "knicks cant sign a 3rd max" cuz you really dont know that..maybe you tell yourself and the board that though because your scared..as a nets fan theres alot more of us knick fans to begin with and us having 3 max's and becoming truely elite there will not be many net fans left hell the remaining few might join the knicks

[omerome]

Obviously.

Which is why the Knicks should have been talking to Utah the minute Ujri demanded their entire starting lineup for one player. They obviously would consider a proposal from NY since their GM has been quoted as potentially doing a deal with them.

Again Billups is only in NY for another season. Williams is more experienced, better, and more sensible fit for the Knicks than Anthony will ever be.

I don't know what's so obvious. Deron Williams' availability was not widely known to everyone. The Nets had the assets that Utah wanted and make the trade. You can't assume that the Jazz would of felt the same with our proposal like the Nets because we don't first round draft picks to offer.

And while Billups is only in NY for another season as was Felton. I'm sure that if Utah decided to deal with us they would want him in a package like Denver did. And just like I wasn't so excited about getting Carmelo based on the assets we sent out we would be lacking in depth now if that trade was made.

It's easy to say now that the Knicks should of went for DWill instead of Melo but I could say the Knicks should of went after Howard instead of Amar'e (if he was available). We can't tell the future or read minds and we can only go with what we know.

[Doctor MJ]

http://nbaconfidential.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/dissecting-the-deal-how-deron-williams-could-have-gone-to-new-york-instead-of-new-jersey/

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... 80%98melo/

Thoughts?

So bizarre. The superior player is the consolation prize.

[eslr]

http://nbaconfidential.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/dissecting-the-deal-how-deron-williams-could-have-gone-to-new-york-instead-of-new-jersey/

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... 80%98melo/

Thoughts?

So bizarre. The superior player is the consolation prize.

It makes you wonder why the Jazz didnt jump in during the middle of the bidding war and say "hey, we have a superior product and we will give it to you for the same price". How the Jazz got less from Jersey for DWill than they were offering for Melo is beyond me.

[MSGBallerz]

D-Will > Melo

Melo + Billups > D-Will

[magnumt]

So bizarre. The superior player is the consolation prize.

It makes you wonder why the Jazz didnt jump in during the middle of the bidding war and say "hey, we have a superior product and we will give it to you for the same price". How the Jazz got less from Jersey for DWill than they were offering for Melo is beyond me.

They got the Nets bets Picks, Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, and NJ also sent out a high 2nd Rounder to get Deron Williams.

The Nets will send Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations to Utah for the All-Star point guard.

In a separate deal, the Nets will send the expiring contract of forward Troy Murphy and a second-round pick in 2012 to the Golden State Warriors for center Dan Gadzuric and power forward Brandan Wright.

The Jazz will get New Jersey's first-round pick this year, which is not lottery protected, and Golden State's first-round pick, which is partially protected, next year. That selection is top-seven protected in 2012 and 2013 and top-six protected in 2014. If Utah has not received the pick by the 2014 draft, then the Jazz will receive Golden State's own 2014 and 2016 second-round picks.

Sources told ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard that the Jazz also receive $3 million.

The Warriors are currently slotted in the 11th Slot, so the Jazz could theoretically end up with 3 Lotto Picks. plus Derrick Favors, plus Devin Harris, and are free of Wright's $5 Million 2011 Salary.

Wasn't exactly a far differentiation from what NY gave up.

In the end, all 4 Teams (NY, NJ, UTA, and DEN) got what they wanted. And all 4 Teams are happy.

Not something that can always be said for mid-Season dual Blockbusters.

--Mags

[eslr]

So bizarre. The superior player is the consolation prize.

It makes you wonder why the Jazz didnt jump in during the middle of the bidding war and say "hey, we have a superior product and we will give it to you for the same price". How the Jazz got less from Jersey for DWill than they were offering for Melo is beyond me.

They got the Nets bets Picks, Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, and NJ also sent out a high 2nd Rounder to get Deron Williams.

The Nets will send Derrick Favors, Devin Harris, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations to Utah for the All-Star point guard.

In a separate deal, the Nets will send the expiring contract of forward Troy Murphy and a second-round pick in 2012 to the Golden State Warriors for center Dan Gadzuric and power forward Brandan Wright.

Well the offer for Melo.....

included veteran point guard Devin Harris, veteran forward Troy Murphy, rookie forward Derrick Favors, rookie point guard Ben Uzoh and four first-round picks.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... z1GL2u0xVv

[magnumt]

Well the offer for Melo.....

included veteran point guard Devin Harris, veteran forward Troy Murphy, rookie forward Derrick Favors, rookie point guard Ben Uzoh and four first-round picks.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1182973/2/index.htm#ixzz1GL2u0xVv

^I edited/focused my post above. They get 2 of the Nets best 4 picks they had to offer. The other 2 Picks they didn't get were the Lakers pick, and another later Pick.

Like I said above, not a far differentiation at all from the Melo offer (from NY or NJ). Everything else in the deal remained the same.

-Mags

[Doctor MJ]

It makes you wonder why the Jazz didnt jump in during the middle of the bidding war and say "hey, we have a superior product and we will give it to you for the same price". How the Jazz got less from Jersey for DWill than they were offering for Melo is beyond me.

Well the answer is that Melo's a bigger star than DWill and considered by many to be the superior player. So I get why it happened, I just marvel that NBA decision makers think like this.

[The59Sound]

I loathe Deron and am ecstatic he's gone, but to say Melo is "easily" better than him is a joke.

[jeff1624]

Well the offer for Melo.....

included veteran point guard Devin Harris, veteran forward Troy Murphy, rookie forward Derrick Favors, rookie point guard Ben Uzoh and four first-round picks.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1182973/2/index.htm#ixzz1GL2u0xVv

^I edited/focused my post above. They get 2 of the Nets best 4 picks they had to offer. The other 2 Picks they didn't get were the Lakers pick, and another later Pick.

Like I said above, not a far differentiation at all from the Melo offer (from NY or NJ). Everything else in the deal remained the same.

-Mags

Actually we would have sent out Morrow and taken back Harrington and Balkman as well.. not to mention the potential Rip hamilton trade.

/Shudders

[magnumt]

^I edited/focused my post above. They get 2 of the Nets best 4 picks they had to offer. The other 2 Picks they didn't get were the Lakers pick, and another later Pick.

Like I said above, not a far differentiation at all from the Melo offer (from NY or NJ). Everything else in the deal remained the same.

-Mags

Actually we would have sent out Morrow and taken back Harrington and Balkman as well.. not to mention the potential Rip hamilton trade.

/Shudders

That Trade didn't come to fruition. I compared the ACTUAL NJ-UTA Trades to the NY-DEN Trades.

The assets NJ sent out (which I alluded to above in my posts), were not that far off from what NY sent out for Melo. NY also got Billups in its deal too (who as many would agree is not just some throw-in and was actually insisted on by Donnie late in the stages of the deal as Denver did not want to part with him).

--Mags

[jeff1624]

^^Oh, I misread.. though you were compring the deal with the one we had in place for 'Melo.

[magnumt]

^^Oh, I misread.. though you were compring the deal with the one we had in place for 'Melo.

Oh naah.

I'm primarily comparing the NJ-UTA and NY-DEN deals since that one poster earlier thought NY missed the boat with Deron and another poster though NY gave up far more than in the Deron deal.

Neither of which are true.

--Mags

[devv83]

Why are people nitpicking

Denver is happy, Ny is happy , New Jersey is happy

What the hell is there to talk about lol