Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

Rude Boy 1 · Post #1161 » by **Rude Boy 1** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:04 pm

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:40 pts on 19 FGAs.

Very impressive.

indeed. shot the lights out from 3 still nothing generated off the dribble.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #1162 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:04 pm

it would be nice having Barnes as another viable option when we're drafting. With where we are right now in the standings (and it doesn't look like we'll be moving up or down very much), we could end up picking as far back as 8th...which is scary considering the lack of quality prospects in this draft.

baulderdash77 · Post #1163 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:05 pm

Youngblood wrote:Does anyone have stats for Harrison once he began to pick it up? I wonder if his percentages are still that bad.

Since Kendall Marshall became a starter 13 games ago (which is when everyone on UNC turned it around) his averages have been the following:

19.6/6.4/1.4 with 1.4 steals, .5 blocks. 47% FG, 38% 3pt, 81% FT in 30.7 minutes.

His TS% is .588 in this time period which is outstanding.

Post #1164 » by **5DOM** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:05 pm

TheDunc wrote:
5DOM wrote:I agree that he will get better, but he can't be called a solid shooter now without consistency. Form and range don't mean a thing without that.

I dont agree, shooting percentage doesnt always tell the story. It depends what kind of shots they are.A guy like rudy is only shooting 33% from three this year yet is considered a very good three point shooter. Barnes has the range, have him work on his jumpshot for a whole summer like Demar and he could easily become a good three point shooter

He has the "potential" to be a good shooter, but he's currently not one.
At least Rudy Fernandez is 37% for his career from the 3 point line.

DreamTeam09 · Post #1165 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:06 pm

I have seen Perry play a couple games this yr and I haven't seen him break anyone down either. I don't think its because of lack of ability as oppose to lack of opportunity. Baylor didn't put him in any iso positions as far as I am aware of. In his mixes theres clips of him breaking ppl down like a gaurd would. He was killin **** in da All american game & HS and being only a freshman, I don't see how he could of lost that ability over the span of less than a yr.

CunningLinguist · Post #1166 » by **CunningLinguist** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:07 pm

Indeed wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:
Indeed wrote:Yet, people said the same thing to Bargnani. Bargnani is a bad defender? Synergy Sport ranks him average in man defense. And yet, Barnes might be a good defender, but he has yet to go against NBA player, nor show excellent help defense.

Both Barnes and Perry Jones are Bargnani 2.0. I don't mind Bargnani, but can some of those people accept their problems? Perry Jones being soft on the perimeter and not good at rebounding (6' 11", freaking 7 footer). And Barnes staying on the perimeter and take jump shots (not gonna drive?).

Disagree. Perry's problem is being soft and a confidence enigma. Barnes' problem is not being as talented as people thought. His game is shooting 3s and running the floor, and he's not even that good a shooter. Barnes isn't driving cause his handle sucks.

I agree with the Perry Bargnani comparison. But Perry is more talented than Bargnani. Bargs' rebounding and defensive IQ sucks, but he also has lift issues. Perry's athleticism and length under most circumstances would give him great d and rebounding potential. Will he realize it, I dunno, but he's more talented than Bargnani. Who mind you is a 22ppg player

Bargnani's IQ is alright, he just doesn't do it (confidence and sense of urgent, I suppose).

And it depends on how you rate talent. If you rate quickness ahead of size (which is the current NBA settings), sure, Bargnani is gonna lose out, since Perry can guard SF. However, you can't dismiss Bargnani can draw opponent PF/C out, and compliment others better than Perry.

Anyway, the key thing is, do you have the trust on drafting Bargnani 2.0? Or someone worst?

I've seen no evidence of this.

Silk Wilkes · Post #1167 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:09 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:
Youngblood wrote:Does anyone have stats for Harrison once he began to pick it up? I wonder if his percentages are still that bad.

Since Kendall Marshall became a starter 13 games ago (which is when everyone on UNC turned it around) his averages have been the following:

19.6/6.4/1.4 with 1.4 steals, .5 blocks. 47% FG, 38% 3pt, 81% FT in 30.7 minutes.

So with a good point guard he looks like a top-3 pick.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #1168 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:09 pm

TheDunc wrote:
5DOM wrote:Relax it's just one game. This career game today doesn't make people who said he's a poor-to-average shooter stupid by any means. That was a fact. Now hopefully he continues to play well because if he does, he might be the player we want playing next to DeMar

He was never as bad a shooter as his stats suggested though. Like DD, in college his mid range jumper was pretty money but then he struggled with it when he got to the nba. But now its back. Barnes struggled with it but hes always had good form and range, it was just a matter of consistency. Barnes is a solid shooter who will only get better. Him and DD are quite similar in my opinion, their games are different but they both have the tools to be really good. They also have the work ethic and bodies to go with it. Its just a matter of putting it all together.

I wouldn't say it's back. It's only the 3rd time in 10 games that he's shot over 50% from the field. I think his mechanics are fine, but he often makes life more difficult for himself with his shot selection.

The bar is just low, and we're all hoping to get something half decent out of this draft by trying to convince ourselves that something isn't as weak as it is.

I think the only similarities between DeRozan and Barnes is that they both were over-hyped coming into college. It always felt like DeRozan knew that all along and decided to put his head down and learn as much as he could. The jury is still out on whether he'll ever be even an average defensive player. Barnes is different. He's a workaholic. He didn't seem to know how to refine his game when his jumper wasn't sinking and he just kind of sucked for half a season. I have no doubt he'll be able to consistently score from the perimeter in the NBA, but the cerebral aspect of his game needs work.

Salted Meat · Post #1169 » by **Salted Meat** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:11 pm

Rude Boy 1 wrote:
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:40 pts on 19 FGAs.

Very impressive.

indeed. shot the lights out from 3 still nothing generated off the dribble.

He took it to the cup a few times, but Clemson really clogged up the middle and aggressively played the passing lanes. They basically forced Carolina to beat them from deep.

Also, I think Carolina's offense this year is very guard-oriented. Marshall and Strickland look to either drive, or dump it down low to Henson and Zeller. The only time Barnes gets the ball is on kickouts, curls, and broken plays when the clock is running down... all of which usually leads to him taking jumpers. When he gets into the paint, he actually absorbs contact really well and can finish through fouls for the and-1

fredericklove · Post #1170 » by **fredericklove** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:12 pm

Salted Meat wrote:
His handle will improve, and although he doesn't have a quick first step right now, he understands spacing, and how to use his intelligence to get himself to the line. This kid's gonna be a great pro.

Does triple threat position hinder his quick first step development? Because every time he catches the ball he'll subconsciously and automatically do the triple threat stand as opposed to catch and drive quickly.

DreamTeam09 · Post #1171 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:17 pm

fredericklove wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:
His handle will improve, and although he doesn't have a quick first step right now, he understands spacing, and how to use his intelligence to get himself to the line. This kid's gonna be a great pro.

Does triple threat position hinder his quick first step development? Because every time he catches the ball he'll subconsciously and automatically do the triple threat stand as opposed to catch and drive quickly.

It wouldnt hinder your 1st step. Because you can obvously have a great 1st step outta the triple threat position. But if you dont go to the triple threat and just catch and move with the ball in stride then that should get you moving quicker. A lot of ppl tend to travel when doing that tho.

Silk Wilkes · Post #1172 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:21 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:
His handle will improve, and although he doesn't have a quick first step right now, he understands spacing, and how to use his intelligence to get himself to the line. This kid's gonna be a great pro.

Does triple threat position hinder his quick first step development? Because every time he catches the ball he'll subconsciously and automatically do the triple threat stand as opposed to catch and drive quickly.

It wouldnt hinder your 1st step. Because you can obvously have a great 1st step outta the triple threat position. But if you dont go to the triple threat and just catch and move with the ball in stride then that should get you moving quicker. A lot of ppl tend to travel when doing that tho.

CunningLinguist · Post #1173 » by **CunningLinguist** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:22 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:I have seen Perry play a couple games this yr and I haven't seen him break anyone down either. I don't think its because of lack of ability as oppose to lack of opportunity. Baylor didn't put him in any iso positions as far as I am aware of. In his mixes theres clips of him breaking ppl down like a gaurd would. He was killin **** in da All american game & HS and being only a freshman, I don't see how he could of lost that ability over the span of less than a yr.

He was doing that against high school players and mostly in situations without much ball pressure

DreamTeam09 · Post #1174 » by **DreamTeam09** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:31 pm

Bargs does get called for travel on that move, although some of the times he gets called for it while even doing it cleanly. Refs dont like giving any advantages...

baulderdash77 · Post #1175 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:33 pm

By the way. During the recent UNC surge John Henson is now averaging 12.9/12.3 w/ 3.5 blocks in 30.5 minutes. Also his FT% was 59% in that time which is remarkable in that it was hovering around 40% before that period.

He was named ACC Defensive Player of the Year this week.

He's also made a remarkable improvement.

Rapsfan07 · Post #1176 » by **Rapsfan07** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:43 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:By the way. During the recent UNC surge John Henson is now averaging 12.9/12.3 w/ 3.5 blocks in 30.5 minutes. Also his FT% was 59% in that time which is remarkable in that it was hovering around 40% before that period.

He was named ACC Defensive Player of the Year this week.

He's also made a remarkable improvement.

Honestly, out of this whole draft, I really believe that John Henson is the only no-brainer out of the lottery, and in some ways, kinda reminds me of Ed Davis. Everybody else pretty much has very high bust potential.

The safest pick for us (Top 5) would be Terrence Jones.

I just worry that he doesn't have that "it" factor. That guy who's gonna take your last shot in crunch time. I believe he'll be a good NBA player though. Barnes, on the other hand, seems to possess that extra gear. My worry with him is that he seems to be a spot-up shooter right now. He doesn't really put the ball on the floor much.

Derrick Williams is interesting as well but I don't feel that "star" vibe. Looks like he could be an NBA tweener too.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1177 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:49 pm

baulderdash77 wrote:By the way. During the recent UNC surge John Henson is now averaging 12.9/12.3 w/ 3.5 blocks in 30.5 minutes. Also his FT% was 59% in that time which is remarkable in that it was hovering around 40% before that period.

He was named ACC Defensive Player of the Year this week.

He's also made a remarkable improvement.

Seems like the perfect pick for the Detroit Pistons, to pair Henson with Monroe.

sunny · Post #1178 » by **sunny** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:01 pm

Arizona is about to play Washington in the championship game of the pacific life pac-10 tournament.
If you have yet to watch Dwill play, I recommend you check him out on tv. The game will be on CBS and streamed legally on the cbs website.

As for all the people hyping up Barnes today... I dont see how his performance today really did much for his stock.
He didn't show anything new to his game. He scored points by taking open shots for the most part. He scored on a fumbled allyoop down low, and had a nice play near the end of regulation where he took two steps in and dropped back for a 3.
Players at UNC play how Roy Williams wants them to. It's possible Barnes has more to his game than what he is showing, but he is playing a position that is effective with UNC's system (drive-pass to post- kick to an open Barnes).

baulderdash77 · Post #1179 » by **baulderdash77** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:02 pm

If Henson was 230 lbs instead of 210 lbs I think he'd be a top 5 pick without a doubt. He's either going to fill out like Marcus Camby or he's going to be a bust IMO.

His measurements are going to be a big deciding factor in where he gets drafted.

tcee · Post #1180 » by **tcee** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:09 pm

quick recap of barnes' 40 points today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AJFWX-yLgY