The Pacers rebuild... doing it the other way

[Indy2thaWindy]

I meant career high this season. My English isn't good as I'm originally from Bosnia.

Oh, my bad then.

[singlepurposeac]

Everyone shows OKC, Portland, Sacramento, Memphis, etc.'s style of rebuilding. Basically suck as much as possible, collect top 5 picks, then turn it around

How about some love for what the Pacers have done post melee. From the 07 season to now they've won 35, 36, 36, and 32 games and never gotten a pick higher than 10. They got labelled as the team with the worst position in the NBA for this reason, they were never bad enough to get great picks

Instead they concentrated on CULTURE and getting the right type of players, even if it means half the team is vets who 'hurt tanking'. People have called for Obie's head for years but this is his 4th season. The result is far more continuity and chemistry than franchises like Philly and Detroit who gun through coaches yearly. Bird understands its better for a rebuilding team to keep one coach because of continuity

They've patiently had faith in their 30-35 W and trying to win to the end strategy, contiously supported playing hard when other teams gave up and tanked. And they waited for the right moves. And now look at their team

Darren Collision (good starting young PG, could get better)
Brandon Rush (defensive 3pt shooter)
Danny Granger (all-star SF)
Psycho T (always room for someone who plays hard)
Roy Hibbert (future all-star, playing like a franchise C this season)

I would easily take this Pacers team going forward over Sacramento, Minnesota, Memphis, LA Clippers, etc with this core. Only OKC is above. And IMO the reason the Thunder are winning is the same reason Indy is on the way up. They focus on defense and winning players. This year they're 6-6 but have a 4+ SRS and 8-4 expected W-L so the stats say they've been better than that

Yes if every team tried to build like this it wouldn't be flawless. Some teams would stay mediocore. But there's just as many if not more teams who stay at the bottom in the 'tank for high picks' way. So I think Bird deserves some credit for being unorthadox and patient despite a handful of mediocore teams

People keep falling for this sort of early hype, the same way Warriors fans always bought late runs in losing seasons as a sign then team would be awesome the next year. The Pacers are looking ok, that's not a bad thing, they have some solid players, but they're never going to be a contender, and they're questionable to even make the playoffs. You don't win titles with "ok" play.

I never labelled them the "worst position in the NBA", that's for sure. But you can put me on record as saying Hibbert is not a franchise C, at least if you mean what I assume that term implies... he's certainly a starter for a winning team, but he's going to be very lucky to make more than 1 all-star game in his career, and that'll be a product of playing in the East.

I don't agree with your narrative either, comparing them to some random young teams, and then declaring that "only OKC" is more promising. The brawl happened in 2004-5, and since then the Jazz have gone from a 26 win team to a perennial 50+ win team (despite injuries), the Blazers have gone from a 27 win team to a perennial 50+win team (who has been hit by absurd and unprecedented injuries over the last few years), The Hornets have gone from an 18 win team to a perennial contender (minus last years injury ruined season), the Hawks went from 13 wins to a borderline contender, the Cavs went from missing the playoffs to a contender, the Magic went from missing the playoffs to being a contender, etc. And since then we've seen the rise of OKC (as you point out). All of this is alot more impressive than anything the Pacers have done.

You say you'll take the Pacers over the Wolves/Clippers/Kings/Memphis. The only reason I agree with the Clippers is because of their ownership, it has nothing to do with young cores (I'll take the Clippers core that has a chance to eventually win something). Memphis has a better core, but play in the West... if these guys were in the East, I'd take them in a heartbeat. The Kings have a long way to go, they've also been hurt, but long term they've got a better chance than the Pacers too if healthy. As for the Wolves, management is a serious problem, but I'll take their young cast too, since at least it has a hope in hell of winning a title (especially if they get Rubio over).

Most of the Pacers guys will start to be on the downside of their careers in 3 years, and what will they have achieved by then? Nothing of significance. They're at best a 1st round playoff team this year, and without a real star and some real depth that's not going to change. Most of their guys are nothing special at all. For the Pacers to get good, they need their GM to pull off a series of miracle home runs, like the Webber/Richmond trade, or the Gasol/rubbish trade. Lottery teams don't need to rely on miracles to be successful (miracles we have no reason to believe Pacers management is capable of), and as such I prefer their method.

How are those Pacers looking? Better than the Grizzlies yet? How about compared to the Clippers in the future? Will Hibbert be making the all-NBA 3rd team this year writerman?

[Dr Positivity]

I still like the Pacers core, Collision isn't as good as I thought but George and Hansbrough are better

[daschysta]

Our future is looking fine, in fact with the emergence of tyler hansbrough we have more assets than before, and still have incredibly favorable cap space.

Our season was highjacked by the idiocy of Jim O'brien halfway through (he deserved his sacking) but we've been over .500 under vogel.

Inconsitancy is to be expected from a team who, other than danny granger is being manned by mostly first and second year players in all major rotation spots.

Future is still very bright in indy.

[singlepurposeac]

I still like the Pacers core, Collision isn't as good as I thought but George and Hansbrough are better

You (and writerman) picked them ahead of the Grizzlies and Clippers future!

[LGND2552]

They're getting there! A lot of potential in this team. Granger is still young, Hibbert is having a great season, Hansbrough finally stepping into his game. Damn, if they pulled off that trade for OJ Mayo...this would be a beast team in the future.

[daschysta]

I still like the Pacers core, Collision isn't as good as I thought but George and Hansbrough are better

You (and writerman) picked them ahead of the Grizzlies and Clippers future!

the future isn't here yet. Randolph is likely to walk in free agency, and the grizz are historically terribly managed.

Griffin looks like a sure thing for the clips, but the jury is out on how good they will be as well team-wise.

Now isn't the time to try to dish out crow about a speculative thread predicting future seasons...

[wicked_crossova]

How exactly have they rebuilt? They are the definition of a treadmill team the last couple years.

[singlepurposeac]

I still like the Pacers core, Collision isn't as good as I thought but George and Hansbrough are better

You (and writerman) picked them ahead of the Grizzlies and Clippers future!

the future isn't here yet. Randolph is likely to walk in free agency, and the grizz are historically terribly managed.

Griffin looks like a sure thing for the clips, but the jury is out on how good they will be as well team-wise.

Now isn't the time to try to dish out crow about a speculative thread predicting future seasons...

When you read some of the stuff in this thread, it really is. Hibbert was called an all-star, and better
than Bogut, or any Eastern C not named Dwight.

And anyway, it's a weak argument to claim that your future is brighter because somehow the other teams management will stuff it up, it's certainly not the argument people here were making...

[HomoSapien]

I like Granger and I like several of their pieces, but they really don't have anyone that gets you super excited. I wouldn't pick them over the Clippers or the Kings because they seem like a team that will sort of be stuck in mediocrity because of the pieces they have.

[bruddahmanmatt]

Instead they concentrated on CULTURE and getting the right type of players, even if it means half the team is vets who 'hurt tanking'. People have called for Obie's head for years but this is his 4th season. The result is far more continuity and chemistry than franchises like Philly and Detroit who gun through coaches yearly. Bird understands its better for a rebuilding team to keep one coach because of continuity

And oddly enough, Philly has seemingly found the right man for the job and is playing + .500 ball while the Pacers just fired their continuity earlier in the season. On a side note, I'd like to know what kind of continuity O'Brien brought to that team over the past three and a half years. Everybody shoot jumpers?

I always love it when predictions made too soon come back to bite one in the ass.

[singlepurposeac]

But the real question is: Paul George... the next T-Mac or Granger?

[sule]

Respect isn't demanded. it's earned.

[img]
http://www.yourargumentisinvalid.com/si ... hatnow.jpg[/img]

(i don't disagree with you, i just wanted to post this...lol

[Darain]

But the real question is: Paul George... the next T-Mac or Granger?

One road leads to injury, ruining your legacy

The other leads to mediocrity

Which do yo take?

[QPR]

Meh, as has been said I'm sure many times in this thread, they don't have a franchise guy; an elite talent you can build around. Granger is a second option, Hibbert has promise but I don't think he's a 20/12 guy ever, while Collison is good but he's never going to be Rondo/Nash/Kidd. Which is the problem with sitting in that middle mediocrity zone, you don't get the picks you need to get that talent. And when was the last time Indiana attracted a big name free agent? Who wants to play there?

The Thunder have been managed very well by Presti, who has traded exceptionally well and drafted exceptionally well, but at the end of the day the two main reasons for their rise were drafted second and fourth. Deron Williams made all the difference to the Jazz, Chris Paul turned the Hornets, Dwight Howard turned the Magic, LeBron the Cavs and Wade the Heat. All top five picks, and only Wade wasn't touted as a franchise-changer as a rookie. The Bucks only look dangerous when Bogut is healthy. Even the Spurs, who have made drafting well late and finding role-playing free agents look ridiculously easy, have still built their core around Duncan.

In any sports league with a drafting system, you pretty much have to bottom out to get to the top. The days of finding a Pierce or a Kobe in the teens are long gone, and teams like the 03/04 Pistons are so rare.

[singlepurposeac]

They're getting there! A lot of potential in this team. Granger is still young, Hibbert is having a great season, Hansbrough finally stepping into his game. Damn, if they pulled off that trade for OJ Mayo...this would be a beast team in the future.

Kidding?

[Starkiller]

As a Pacer fan we stll have a lot of work to do. If Paul George turns into what we think he will then we'll catch a lot of teams by suprise. We'll have a clearer picture of where this team is going after the draft this year.

[LoveDaBoo]

As a Pacer fan we stll have a lot of work to do. If Paul George turns into what we think he will then we'll catch a lot of teams by suprise. We'll have a clearer picture of where this team is going after the draft this year.

It'd be a lot better if you guys were hard-core bad this year, instead of mediocre-bad.

[singlepurposeac]

As a Pacer fan we stll have a lot of work to do. If Paul George turns into what we think he will then we'll catch a lot of teams by suprise. We'll have a clearer picture of where this team is going after the draft this year.

Do you want to add a prediction to this thread? Would you say George is more like T-Mac, or Grant Hill (as I saw him likened to on the PC board a few minutes ago)?