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Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011

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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1121 » by nate33 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:52 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:if I don't get Kanter, i am taking terrence jones in a heart beat. Fits perfectly for the wizards. I wouldn't even consider Barnes unless i am looking a for volume perimeter shooting...shooting guard.
Kanter and terrence Jones will definitely be there at our pick so i am ok with our first pick. Sullinger is fine if we get a second pick and he drops into the teens. Nice energy player off the bench in Carl Laundry Glenn Davis role.
But T.Jones is for real---unless perry jones shows me outstanding lateral agility or i see in a my work out that he can play like Kevin Durant i would probably pass on him. T.Jones is a winner with a swagger and confidence that forces others around him to play with intensity. I like him alot as you guys can see. I would take kanter over him. all the others top picks i would consider unless we moved our atl pick down in the low teens.

I'm taking another look at Terrence Jones and I really like what I see. 21 points and 11 boards per 40. He gets to the line almost 9 times per 40 minutes. He's 6-8, long armed and plays solid D. He's not a great shooter, but if he was, he'd be at the top of everyone's draft board and probably unattainable.

It would be real nice to draft Kanter with our #3 pick and then trade McGee plus the #20 for a pick high enough to land Jones.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1122 » by theboomking » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:03 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:if I don't get Kanter, i am taking terrence jones in a heart beat. Fits perfectly for the wizards. I wouldn't even consider Barnes unless i am looking a for volume perimeter shooting...shooting guard.
Kanter and terrence Jones will definitely be there at our pick so i am ok with our first pick. Sullinger is fine if we get a second pick and he drops into the teens. Nice energy player off the bench in Carl Laundry Glenn Davis role.
But T.Jones is for real---unless perry jones shows me outstanding lateral agility or i see in a my work out that he can play like Kevin Durant i would probably pass on him. T.Jones is a winner with a swagger and confidence that forces others around him to play with intensity. I like him alot as you guys can see. I would take kanter over him. all the others top picks i would consider unless we moved our atl pick down in the low teens.


I really don't like Terrence Jones, and I watched a lot of Kentucky games, wanting to like him. His stats have been decent, but his shooting percentage is low. He has a terribly ugly outside shot, and isn't an overly efficient scorer. I do like Jones as a rebounder and defender. He has very good length, but I question his character. He has already been publicly ripped and benched for not running the play called by coach Cal, instad taking the final shot himself. If he's going to do that to Calipari, as a freshman in college, how is he going to respond to professional coaching. I also don't think Jones is athletic enough to have a physical advantage in that area in the NBA. He handles the ball well, so I guess that is something. Out of every player in the draft, Jones reminds the the most of Andray Blatche.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1123 » by nate33 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:08 pm

Mr_Wizard wrote:Does anybody else think Faried could even slip into the Top 12 if he plays a good tourney/rocks the boards today?

No. Faried's ceiling is mostly likely that of a 25 MPG role player. He's such a liability on offense that it's hard to envision him as a starter - unless it's as an undersized center.

The only way he moves into the Top 12 is if he finds some training guru to get him to knock down 17-footers with consistency in time for the individual workouts.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1124 » by doclinkin » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:35 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:To me, the analogy is the 2001 Draft. Suppose you were the GM on the clock at #4, after Kwame, Chandler, and Pau had been drafted. What do you do? (And no cheating, like saying "Duh, draft Gilbert Arenas!")

http://www.nbadraft.net/nba_draft_history/2001.html


FWIW if we couldn't get Elton Brand I liked Shane Battier and Troy Murphy.

Or take the 2009 draft. Suppose you had the 5th pick. (hypothetically speaking...) The options are: Flynn, Curry, Rubio, Jordan Hill, DeRozan, trade down/out. (Yes, I know - Jennings. But I'm still a bit of a skeptic on the prospect of him really becoming elite/efficient, still some ?s for me.)


Y'all recall it was Curry for me since the starter's gun.

I have no problem drafting for role-players and attitude guys to build a foundation. IQ and ball sense is as much a part of talent as vertical jump. If you miss on a player at least you won't be adding a headcase. In evaluating players I'm always looking for the stats that indicate 'smarts' more than athleticism: Defensive rebounds relative to other players at your position (you know where the other team is) assist/TO ratio relative to position (you know where your own team is), fouls, FT shooting (mentally strong or lazy?).

You have to look at scoring efficiency since coaches tend not to give minutes to guys who can't shoot, no matter how good a roleplayer they are in every other respect. And you have to look at performance against big-time programs to level out small conference superstars, and indicate whether this is a player who likes to compete when the hot lights shine, you love the guys who see an uptick in their key stats when the competition is better.

But then it also means I'd have selected Ryan Gomes not Andray Baltche. Gomes is a nice player, but Baltche yet and still has more upside, even if he never fully realizes it.

Here though there are indicators of more than a few solid gamers and good attitude guys deep into the draft. And looking at our current roster there are opportunities for minutes for anybody willing to put in the work and scrap a bit. I doubt we'd have many takers in a trade down, but there are Best Player Available options wherever we land.

Though on Sullinger he's the rare case where it may be a moot point. I suspect he'll stay in school longer than one and out. He's got a Grant Hill/Tim Duncan/Joachim Noah vibe: smart enough to appreciate playing as The Man on a solid program, enjoys school, looked forward his whole life to playing at this particular school, and has no hardship family situation. He wants to redeem his brother's shortfall and bring a championship to OSU, loves the competition, understands some of the shortcomings in his own game when eyeballing the next level.

It might be a different story if the labor situation weren't an issue, but more than anything this kid loves to play. Getting paid to not play doesn't read like his style, not when he can spend another year as a Ban Man on Campus while improving shortfalls in his game. In the NBA he might be an undersized Big Man on The Bench, or worse, in streeetclothes this year. In a year with no labor issues it might be a different story. The rookie scale is one thing the owners will fight to preserve, and Labor won't battle back against it too fiercely. The money will be similar for rookies, regardless of when it comes. I'm guessing Sully works out for as many teams as he can before the deadline to gauge what he needs to work on, then returns to school.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1125 » by theboomking » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:14 pm

I also think the labor situation may force Sullinger to stay. I hope Ohio State wins the championship, because I think Jared is more likely to declare if they do. Even if we don't take Sullinger, I wouldn't mind having him push some other prospects down the board. That being said, if we want him, we're likely to be drafting in a range in which we could choose him next year as well.

I know that the NBA draft is BPA, BPA, BPA, but do you think our roster needs will shape our draft decision at all? For the past few games, there have been many times that it seems like we've been playing 4 on 5, since we don't have any healthy SF's that could start for any other team in the league. I'm not sure how much we can count on Lewis next season. Furthermore, there may not even be a next season, and we're probably dumping Lewis for the salary savings the following year.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1126 » by FAH1223 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:21 pm

Mizerooskie wrote:I frankly don't get all the Kanter love.

The guy hasn't played in a year. What evidence is there that he rebounds (let alone does anything) well?

No chance I take that guy with a top 5 pick. Give me someone that scouts actually know something about. Kanter stinks of Darko Milicic to me.


how does he look like Darko? he plays with his back to the basket CONSISTENTLY
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1127 » by doclinkin » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:28 pm

theboomking wrote:I know that the NBA draft is BPA, BPA, BPA, but do you think our roster needs will shape our draft decision at all?


Yes. I doubt we'll draft Kyrie Irving.

As for every other position, i channel my inner Private Hudson in saying "I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events, but we just got our asses kicked man!!!"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY[/youtube]

We could stand an upgrade at any position on the floor, have no current starter quality players at any position unless we have surprising development by our high-talent low-output players.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1128 » by nate33 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:49 pm

Aliens 2 is one of the most quotable movies of all time. One of my favorites.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1129 » by theboomking » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:57 pm

doclinkin wrote:
theboomking wrote:I know that the NBA draft is BPA, BPA, BPA, but do you think our roster needs will shape our draft decision at all?


Yes. I doubt we'll draft Kyrie Irving.

As for every other position, i channel my inner Private Hudson in saying "I don't know if you've been keeping up with current events, but we just got our asses kicked man!!!"

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY[/youtube]

We could stand an upgrade at any position on the floor, have no current starter quality players at any position unless we have surprising development by our high-talent low-output players.


Agreed. What are we gonna do man, what are we gonna do? We're in some real pretty **** now!
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1130 » by Zonkerbl » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:03 pm

Nuke 'em from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1131 » by dobrojim » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:09 pm

Mr. Grundle wrote:I haven't seen anything "special" from Harrison Barnes. That's from a skills and character perspective. Average ball-handler, passer, shooter, defender, creator. Average intensity. He's just average all around. I'm trying to figure out what exactly is special about this guy to make him a top 5 pick. Potential? Sorry, I'm done with that stuff.

Give me Jared Sullinger over Harrison Barnes every day of the week. He may not have the potential to get a lot better than he already is, but I know we're getting a guy that's passionate, knows how to play in the post, knows how to position himself for rebounds. We know he's a smart basketball player. He's special in these categories.

Also, he'd send Blatche or McGee to the bench, which is an absolute necessity going into next season. Drafting Barnes means sticking with Blatche and McGee most likely, while Harrison gets stuck behind our 20 million dollar SF while he tries to learn the NBA game. He won't start right away. He had a tough time adjusting to the NCAA, its gonna take a few years for him to learn the NBA game also.

Sullinger or Kanter please.


No frosh has ever gotten 40 in the ACC tourney. Special? Perhaps.
While it's true that every dog has its day, I think Barnes is a special
kind of dog. I think he adjusted to the NCAA pretty well. Was he great
from game 1? No, but he's been pretty good in the conference and tourney.

Lewis may be best suited to being a SF, but at 6-10, we don't have to play
him there, at least not all the time.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1132 » by Rafael122 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:38 pm

Good news: Faried has 7 pts, 9 boards at the half. Bad news, he's 3/13 from the field. He has no low post game to speak of. I wouldn't draft him in the lottery but at 21, it wouldn't hurt to have a guy to come off the bench and rebound and defend some.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1133 » by closg00 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:57 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Good news: Faried has 7 pts, 9 boards at the half. Bad news, he's 3/13 from the field. He has no low post game to speak of. I wouldn't draft him in the lottery but at 21, it wouldn't hurt to have a guy to come off the bench and rebound and defend some.


This is what I've been saying all along, Faried is a Renaldo Balkman-type energy player who won't have a position in the NBA...other than energy guy.....unless he puts-on 20 Lbs. Love his heart.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1134 » by Ruzious » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:59 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Good news: Faried has 7 pts, 9 boards at the half. Bad news, he's 3/13 from the field. He has no low post game to speak of. I wouldn't draft him in the lottery but at 21, it wouldn't hurt to have a guy to come off the bench and rebound and defend some.

He's a chucker. :) His high for the season was only 17 shot attempts, and he has 14 at the half. It'd be cool to see Morehead St upset L-ville. Sorry about ODU, Kev.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1135 » by theboomking » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:11 pm

dobrojim wrote:No frosh has ever gotten 40 in the ACC tourney. Special? Perhaps.
While it's true that every dog has its day, I think Barnes is a special
kind of dog. I think he adjusted to the NCAA pretty well. Was he great
from game 1? No, but he's been pretty good in the conference and tourney.

Lewis may be best suited to being a SF, but at 6-10, we don't have to play
him there, at least not all the time.


I also think Barnes can be special. I'm not sure he will be, but the potential is there. For all of those that complained that he is lacking in killer instinct, that complaint is no longer valid. Barnes unquestionably is the one that takes the big shots at the ends of games, and has brought his team back on multiple occasions. No, he doesn't have an elite 1st step, and he isn't the most explosive leaper. He is a good athlete though, and has a ceiling that is probably just as high or higher than anyone in the draft not named Perry Jones, Enes Kanter or Kyrie Irving. I'd say Barnes' ceiling is comparable to that of Sullinger. I'm anxious to see where we're picking. I'd probably be happy with Sullinger, Barnes, or Kanter, and it's pretty likely at least one of them will be available.

BTW, we lost out last night when Cleveland beat Sacremento. We are still tied with Sacremento in the wins column, and I don't see any way that we lose to the Cavs twice, which is the only way we have a shot at passing them in the lotto. We still need some wins out of Sacremento and Minny.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1136 » by Mizerooskie » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:11 pm

FAH1223 wrote:
Mizerooskie wrote:I frankly don't get all the Kanter love.

The guy hasn't played in a year. What evidence is there that he rebounds (let alone does anything) well?

No chance I take that guy with a top 5 pick. Give me someone that scouts actually know something about. Kanter stinks of Darko Milicic to me.


how does he look like Darko? he plays with his back to the basket CONSISTENTLY

I didn't say he looked like Darko. I said he stinks of Darko. Meaning, he's only rated highly based on very limiting viewings, and no actual production at a high level.

And how do you know he plays with his back to the basket CONSISTENTLY?

Just say no to Kanter.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1137 » by Nivek » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:14 pm

Ruzious wrote:Sorry about ODU, Kev.


It happens. Every year it seems. We did get that win over Villanova a few years back. Good team, but Butler got that buzzer-beater. Grr...
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1138 » by theboomking » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:17 pm

Mizerooskie wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:
Mizerooskie wrote:I frankly don't get all the Kanter love.

The guy hasn't played in a year. What evidence is there that he rebounds (let alone does anything) well?

No chance I take that guy with a top 5 pick. Give me someone that scouts actually know something about. Kanter stinks of Darko Milicic to me.


how does he look like Darko? he plays with his back to the basket CONSISTENTLY

I didn't say he looked like Darko. I said he stinks of Darko. Meaning, he's only rated highly based on very limiting viewings, and no actual production at a high level.

And how do you know he plays with his back to the basket CONSISTENTLY?

Just say no to Kanter.


You don't think NBA GM's have good tape on these guys? Not only do they have an extensive volume of euro tape, but they have seen Kanter crush Sullinger and Terrence Jones, breaking Dirk's Nike Hoops Summit scoring record in only 23 minutes of play. He's been practicing at Kentucky all year and apparently dominated Nazr Mohammed in a head to head practice, after dominating everyone else at Kentucky. Kanter is bigger than any quality NBA prospect coming out this year, plays a physical brand of basketball with a lot of skill, and there is adequate tape on him to evaluate. Teams will get a better feel through workouts and the combine, but I feel very comfortable taking Kanter over Sullinger right now.
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1139 » by Rafael122 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:19 pm

It's Nazr Mohammed though...
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Re: Chicken Littles: Sky done fell! Draft Thread 2011 

Post#1140 » by nate33 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:19 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Good news: Faried has 7 pts, 9 boards at the half. Bad news, he's 3/13 from the field. He has no low post game to speak of. I wouldn't draft him in the lottery but at 21, it wouldn't hurt to have a guy to come off the bench and rebound and defend some.

Yeah, his low post game is embarrassing. He's getting his sh*t stuffed every time.

This probably isn't the ideal type of game to showcase his skills. With all of the fast breaks, he hasn't had any opportunity to demonstrate his ability to defend the paint.

It seems pretty likely to me that he'll be available at #21.

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