Time to bench Granger

Indy4Life · Post #1 » by **Indy4Life** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:13 am

Is it me or has game really regressed under Vogel. His shooting has been subpar by his standards and without his ability to stretch the floor his weaknesses become more evident.

Putting the ball on the floor is a weakness. And even when he can get to the rim he is soft and never finishes.

He is a lousy passer. Always looking for the shot, and when he does make the pass he is late in reacting to the open player and lacking the anticipation it takes to give the shooter time to realease.

His defense has been HORRID. He can't keep anyone in from of him, he hasn't helped off the ball and seems wuite lazy and unmotivated.

Worst thing is...he is still p[laying better than McBob, Collison, Hibbert....and many others...

What to do?

Post #2 » by **Miller4ever** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:20 am

I still think he is our best player. you said yourself he's playing better than others.

Indy2thaWindy · Post #3 » by **Indy2thaWindy** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:29 am

The player that needs benched is Collison. He hasn't done anything good the last month or two.

Crossova21 · Post #4 » by **Crossova21** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:44 am

Now that Solo isn't playing anymore, AJ has taken over the scrub role. I swear he plays no D then comes down and feels he has to match it. He's not a point guard and there's nothing anybody can say to make me change my mind. He's a shooting guard...no way should he ever be leading a team.

WTH is wrong with Hibbert? MMA training and working with Walton wore off? Whenever he gets the ball I automatically assume it's a miss. Vogel should keep McRoberts and Hansbrough in at the end of games cuz Hibbert isn't as good as he thinks he is.

Indy2thaWindy · Post #5 » by **Indy2thaWindy** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:59 am

Crossova21 wrote:Now that Solo isn't playing anymore, AJ has taken over the scrub role. I swear he plays no D then comes down and feels he has to match it. He's not a point guard and there's nothing anybody can say to make me change my mind. He's a shooting guard...no way should he ever be leading a team.

WTH is wrong with Hibbert? MMA training and working with Walton wore off? Whenever he gets the ball I automatically assume it's a miss. Vogel should keep McRoberts and Hansbrough in at the end of games cuz Hibbert isn't as good as he thinks he is.

Hibbert is the only good post defender on the team. Even without his scoring we need him more than anybody. Wen need someone who can create shots for the other players. Unless TJ or Lance get the majority of the minutes at point guard. We're not gonna make the playoffs. Darren can't run the offense. He doesn't have any handles and can't pass. You need a ball dominant two next to him to even think about winning, and he's not even that good as an off guard. He's just not a good player on a team that's trying to win.

8305 · Post #6 » by **8305** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:52 pm

You can count the teams on one hand getting worse play at the point than Indiana. Rotating Collison, Price and Stephenson at the point has been a disaster. Expanding that rotation seems like the exact wrong thing to do with a team that consistently struggles with offensive flow.

I haven't given up on Collison but you need a competent veteran backing him up if you want to win consistently. Look at the Bucks. Last year it worked for them with Jennings but he had Ridnour backing him up. This year take him away and the team and Jennings are less effective.

AJ would be an acceptable back up if you had a strong starter. We need more from the backup at this spot than he can deliver. Lance has an impressive array of skills but I don't think he has any idea how to play within a system. There are guys in the league who dominate the ball the way Lance wants to but they are the elite point guards.

chube · Post #7 » by **chube** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:08 pm

^^^ Agreed. I haven't given up on Collison yet either by any stretch of the imagination. We're talking about him coming into a new situation and JOB did nothing to help Collison blossom with his system. Now, we're talking about a second-year player and first-year starter playing under his 4th coach already, and in all likelihood a 5th come August.

Giving a competent and hopefully more adaptive coach a full training camp to construct a system that correlates to DC's skills and he will improve even more. Last year when he subbed for Chris Paul was no accident and he's had some nice games as a Pacer. Let's not forget, his numbers and impact aren't thaaaaaaaaaaaat much different than they were when Vogel first took over. It's just that we were winning, so it wasn't a problem. But now that we're losing, he's under the microscope more. Plus, he's the floor general for a very young team where the individual players have gone through a lot of personal funks throughout the season. Even though Danny is our leader, he's had a number of stinker nights this season.

If he's still disappearing like he is now a couple years from now once he, George, Roy, and Tyler (all at about the same stages of their career) can blossom and mature as pro basketball players together, then it'll be time to worry and possibly make another move. Until then, let's try and just accept the fact that we aren't as good as we maybe thought we were once upon a time. Keep growing, keep developing and see what we can do with our upcoming financial flexibility.

JamesToney · Post #8 » by **JamesToney** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:57 pm

You gotta stick with your star player. He will come through. These struggles are a learning experience for him.

paulgeorge24 · Post #9 » by **paulgeorge24** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:48 am

8305 wrote:You can count the teams on one hand getting worse play at the point than Indiana. Rotating Collison, Price and Stephenson at the point has been a disaster. Expanding that rotation seems like the exact wrong thing to do with a team that consistently struggles with offensive flow.

I haven't given up on Collison but you need a competent veteran backing him up if you want to win consistently. Look at the Bucks. Last year it worked for them with Jennings but he had Ridnour backing him up. This year take him away and the team and Jennings are less effective.

AJ would be an acceptable back up if you had a strong starter. We need more from the backup at this spot than he can deliver. Lance has an impressive array of skills but I don't think he has any idea how to play within a system. There are guys in the league who dominate the ball the way Lance wants to but they are the elite point guards.

Jennings has been injured this year which hasnt helped the heavier load he's had to carry this season. Collison has had some really good games and he's only in his 2nd year. If you're willing to give Tyler some time, you should have no problem with Collison getting some more time to develop. (Yea Collison played last year more so than Tyler, but learning to run an offense in the NBA takes more time to fully comprehend then playing the 4 spot and just rebounding/post defense/offense)

JeffFosters · Post #10 » by **JeffFosters** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:25 am

If you watch the games the other team almost always schemes their defense around DG specifically. They've figured Roy out, they did that a while ago and he hasn't adapted, and now the focus on defense is for teams to get up into DG on the perimeter. Without someone at the 1 or 2 who is penetrating and slashing (and scoring) the load won't lessen on Danny. Look beyond the box-score. He doesn't need to be benched, he needs some help.

8305 · Post #11 » by **8305** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:55 pm

paulgeorge24 wrote:
8305 wrote:You can count the teams on one hand getting worse play at the point than Indiana. Rotating Collison, Price and Stephenson at the point has been a disaster. Expanding that rotation seems like the exact wrong thing to do with a team that consistently struggles with offensive flow.

I haven't given up on Collison but you need a competent veteran backing him up if you want to win consistently. Look at the Bucks. Last year it worked for them with Jennings but he had Ridnour backing him up. This year take him away and the team and Jennings are less effective.

AJ would be an acceptable back up if you had a strong starter. We need more from the backup at this spot than he can deliver. Lance has an impressive array of skills but I don't think he has any idea how to play within a system. There are guys in the league who dominate the ball the way Lance wants to but they are the elite point guards.
Jennings has been injured this year which hasnt helped the heavier load he's had to carry this season. Collison has had some really good games and he's only in his 2nd year. If you're willing to give Tyler some time, you should have no problem with Collison getting some more time to develop. (Yea Collison played last year more so than Tyler, but learning to run an offense in the NBA takes more time to fully comprehend then playing the 4 spot and just rebounding/post defense/offense)

Not saying I wouldn't give Darren time. What I am saying is right now night in night out he isn't very good. There are games where he kills us with either his struggles as a defender or with costly turnovers. If you want to win you need someone better than AJ Price to spell Collison on nights when he struggles. Right now I don't think Lance isn't the answer either

paulgeorge24 · Post #12 » by **paulgeorge24** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:15 pm

8305 wrote:Not saying I wouldn't give Darren time. What I am saying is right now night in night out he isn't very good. There are games where he kills us with either his struggles as a defender or with costly turnovers. If you want to win you need someone better than AJ Price to spell Collison on nights when he struggles. Right now I don't think Lance isn't the answer either

I see what you're saying but that can be said for everyone on our team. We also got Darren knowing that there would be some deficiencies on defense because of his size and that there would be some turnovers because of his youth. We need to just let him play his game instead of trying to force him into a system that he's not comfortable with like JOB had him doing for the longest time. Also its no coincidence that the games when we are not shooting well, he struggles. There are alot of other variables like that in effect that are out of his control and that would not change even if we had a great backup point.