Draft Talk

[TSE]

I'd rather have his Illini teammate Corey Liuget

Thanks for the extra comments on those guys. What about Paea though? Those 49 reps he put up was just sweet. I wouldn't want to add a DT with all of our other needs, but if we could get Paea with a Rd 2 pick (maybe with a low cost trade up w/packaging Corey Williams), I'd much rather do that then spend a Rd 1 pick on Liuget, or do you think Liuget is that good? If we were using the 13 pick on him then I would want to know the price of what we would have to give up to trade up for Fairley though, or even Dareus if he ends up being cheaper to trade up for than Fairley. I just think Fairley and Suh (that would make me love Mayhew) or the strongman Paea with Suh would be pretty cool. Thoughts on those options?

[ajaX82]

But Solder's main problem for me was the 21 bench press reps, that isn't really coachable, I mean it is to some extent, but 99% of the solution to that problem would be intense crazy work and commitment by the player. I would have a major problem with Solder but I wouldn't have a problem with the other 2 tackles if they were properly reviewed and it was determined that they were worth the pick and with a logical basis for that determination. The way I see it, there's only 4 guys that are looking like possibilities of players I would consider that will be there, and that's the other 2 tackles and DEs Quinn and Kerrigan. Well I guess I would throw Julio Jones in there since I'm not really that certain he will go in the top 12. But those are the only guys I see as contending for being worth that pick that will still be around. It's still 100% a total trade-down solution to me though. What if we trade down to 20 and can still get one of those guys we can get at 13? I'll take that chance, and if none make it there then trade down again to the back of the first round.

My ultimate goal would be to use those trade downs in conjunction with expendable trading assets like KVB and company to wind up with an extra 1st Rd pick in 2012.

I can't dissect your entire post, but as far as Solder, a few things

1. Getting stronger is certainly coachable. Extremely so. He needs to get with a NFL strength and conditioning coach and around other NFL players and hit the weights

2. He has a major work ethic and desire to get stronger. From draftscout:

Owns the work ethic to become a Pro Bowl offensive tackle. In the spring of 2009, he was awarded the John Wooten Award for outstanding work ethic and the offensive line's Iron Buffalo Award for hard work, dedication, toughness and total poundage lifted in the weight room

and

the high school TE/DE/LB gained 25 pounds during his redshirt season to improve his strength as a blocking tight end, and has added another 60 since making the move to left tackle during spring 2008 practices.

That said, i would be interested if you still see strength as a major problem, when he obviously has the ability to greatly improve there. Adding 85 pounds during college and winning team awards for dedication and weightlifting seem to suggest that he will continue to get stronger and bigger.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114291

[TSE]

Yeah I see it as a major problem. I never said that I didn't think he could put on the weight/strength, and I would actually assume that he would do everything in his power to do so considering his entire future of making millions of dollars would depend on it, so I'm sure the effort will be there. But it's still a maybe that he succeeds and a certainty that it will take time. Castonzo and Tyron already don't have to worry about that as much, and they could improve strength and conditioning to a much higher level than they are at. I just don't see any logic to drafting Solder at 13, and I could care less how good of a player he is, cause the threshold he would have to achieve on playing talent would have to be so high that it turns me onto him despite this flag and there certainly isn't that much positive gossip about him like he's the next best thing since sliced bread, so he's officially ruled out in my mind. Since I'm not a paid professional, I have to take certain liberties and make a couple risky assumptions to disqualify guys without having to spend an enormous amount of time developing my board you know? Heck, I spent almost more time typing this post to you than I did to axe both Ayers and Martez off my board! lol

[TSE]

I did see a couple quick things that I liked from tape of Herzlich and Moch. I like those guys for possible later consideration just fyi, so if we are going to go LB I'd rather wait til Rd 3 and see what turns up then. So, my plan would be to stay away from all CBs in the draft, and target 1 super premium player like Nnamdi, or 2 guys like Joseph and one of the other 3-5 guys that might be better than Chris Houston, and budget Rd 3 for LB, leaving us options to use our big Rd 1 and Rd 2 free to play with, maybe an OT and DE, or possibly sneak Julio Jones in there in Rd 1 or a Paea in Rd 2. That's of course if we don't do any trades which I still prefer. I like the Safeties in this draft, Rahim Moore and Deandre McDaniel, and we are fat in numbers there now, but I still keep them in the back of my mind. If we select Ayers then I can see myself saying damn the fact that we need LBers, if we get one guy from UCLA it had better be Rahim Moore, you kiddin' me? No way I'm taking Ayers over him.

[ajaX82]

^ I think you miss the fact that the other two guys have problems too. That's my point. Solders problems, strength and some technique stuff, are very coachable. He has shown the work ethic and heart to overcome his shortcomings.

Take Tyron Smith for example. He has never played LT before. This, to me, is a problem. Using your logic, while Smith learns the basic tenants of the position, Solder and Castonzo can be just getting better and better.

Again, my point in liking Solder is that he should be able to overcome his weaknesses. The other two tackles have weaknesses too, and I am not as confident in their ability to overcome them. I think you miss that.

[TSE]

Well I'm just going on what the experts say and they seem to say that his transfer to LT isn't a big issue. I don't know cause if I was grading LTs man I have to see every play, that's a complex position to analyze and there's a lot more than just tape that I would want to find out about Castonzo and Tyron before I could give a good qualified opinion, so I'm stuck not knowing. I'm not giving them a free pass on their weaknesses, just giving them the benefit of the doubt on stuff that I can't prove or disprove on my end in an efficient manner, which I can certainly do with regard to Solder's strength issue. So with known information, I just see higher odds of success for Castonzo and Tyron minus those unknown mystery variables.

[Bartender]

Well I'm just going on what the experts say and they seem to say that his transfer to LT isn't a big issue. I don't know cause if I was grading LTs man I have to see every play, that's a complex position to analyze and there's a lot more than just tape that I would want to find out about Castonzo and Tyron before I could give a good qualified opinion, so I'm stuck not knowing. I'm not giving them a free pass on their weaknesses, just giving them the benefit of the doubt on stuff that I can't prove or disprove on my end in an efficient manner, which I can certainly do with regard to Solder's strength issue. So with known information, I just see higher odds of success for Castonzo and Tyron minus those unknown mystery variables.

What experts? You are the only expert.

[TSE]

Oh. But did you have to copy my entire post, even though you are the very next post, just to chime in with that sentiment?

[Bartender]

Yes








And you suck as sarcasm.

[Bartender]

Ice, do you think Gabe Carimi could ACTUALLY be a LT in the NFL? The big knock on him was lack of athleticism to handle speed rushers, but from his workouts, he looked to have a terrific build and looks a lot lighter than his weight says, and his footwork was actually pretty good.

If his pass protection is underrated, could he be a steal since he's a ferocious run blocker?

[Bartender]

And I also like Rahim Moore.... but not as a safety.

That guy had extremely good hips and catch up speed at the combine. He reminds me a lot of a college safety that turned to a probowl shutdown corner that many of us want in this free agency... Nnamdi Asomugha.

Nnamdi was a FS in college, and a lot of people got on Al Davis for moving up for him in the draft (2003?) cuz everyone thought that was a reach for a safety. Al certainly showed how genius he can actually be.

But yeah, Rahim reminds me a lot of Nnamdi and I think he can be a cornerback in the NFL, and with the ballskills that he has, oh man. He has pretty great potential

[Icness]

Ice, do you think Gabe Carimi could ACTUALLY be a LT in the NFL? The big knock on him was lack of athleticism to handle speed rushers, but from his workouts, he looked to have a terrific build and looks a lot lighter than his weight says, and his footwork was actually pretty good.

If his pass protection is underrated, could he be a steal since he's a ferocious run blocker?

I don't think he can play LT. He spends an inordinate amount of time on the ground, mainly because he leans too far when he tries to snuff out an outside rusher. The guys a LT faces are a lot quicker than those a RT faces and he can't handle the speed over there in college, let alone the NFL. If I had to compare him to an NFL player one of the first names that pops to mind is Gosder Cherilus, a tough run-blocking specialist with balance issues. And Detroit already has one of those.

[TSE]

And you suck as sarcasm.

Huh? What are you talking about? Do you have a point, and if so what the heck is it?

[Icness]

Lions were at LSU's workout and it seems they were looking at Barksdale (a mid-round RT) and Ridley (mid-round RB) as much as Nevis or Peterson. Barksdale is completely redundant with Jason Fox. Ridley has some skill but he's always knicked up and runs kind of soft for a big guy.

Both Mayhew and Schwartz are expected to be at Mizzou's pro day. Forget Gabbert; they're looking at Aldon Smith and Ryan Jones, the CB from NW Mizzou. I would love Jones in the 4th round--I have a 2nd round grade on him and if he came from Ohio State or USC everyone else would too. He's shown me more than Brandon Harris ever will.

[TSE]

Hmm seems pretty obvious that the Lions just don't want to tip their hand that they are making an aggressive play to trade up for Peterson. The Tiger's out of the bag, and it's looking a lot like a Lion! lol

[kellmellus50]

The Detroit Lions are hosting another draft prospect today: wide receiver Torrey Smith of Maryland.


Smith would fill the Lions’ need for a No. 3 receiver. At the NFL combine last month, Lions general manager Martin Mayhew admitted he was disappointed about the production of receivers Bryant Johnson and Derrick Williams last year. The pair combined for just 21 catches.


http://www.freep.com/article/20110318/S ... ext|Sportskellmellus50
Pro Prospect

Posts: 836
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:24 am

[TSE]

Wow that's odd that they would want to have a visit with the consensus 3rd or 4th best WR in the draft when others on this board clearly ruled out that it would be impossible to consider a guy like Julio Jones with the 13th pick who might be the best WR in the draft and possibly the best offensive weapon that we could add.

[ajaX82]

Wow that's odd that they would want to have a visit with the consensus 3rd or 4th best WR in the draft when others on this board clearly ruled out that it would be impossible to consider a guy like Julio Jones with the 13th pick who might be the best WR in the draft and possibly the best offensive weapon that we could add.

We're not going to draft Smith in the first round, so I'm not sure what your point is. We all agree that we need a better #3 receiver, the rest of us just understand what a terrible decision it would be to do that in the first round

[kellmellus50]

Martin Mayhew is a hard man to surprise, but even the Lions general manager was taken aback by the complete lack of production his team got from the No. 3 receiver spot last yearMayhew said the Lions needed someone who "can take the top off the defense" to complement Calvin Johnson, Nate Burleson and tight end Brandon Pettigrew.



http://www.freep.com/article/20110228/S ... y=obinsite

[TSE]

Wow that's odd that they would want to have a visit with the consensus 3rd or 4th best WR in the draft when others on this board clearly ruled out that it would be impossible to consider a guy like Julio Jones with the 13th pick who might be the best WR in the draft and possibly the best offensive weapon that we could add.

We're not going to draft Smith in the first round, so I'm not sure what your point is. We all agree that we need a better #3 receiver, the rest of us just understand what a terrible decision it would be to do that in the first round

My point was towards the guys on this board that said it was impossible to take a WR with the 13th pick. If they are going to take a WR with the 2nd round pick, then why is it such a leap to consider using one round higher that it would be impossible? Plus, Torrey Smith is considered by many to go as the 3rd WR so it seems completely unlikely that the Lions could get him with the Rd 2 pick, so we would have to trade up to something that is more valuable than a RD 2 pick, but yet not as high as the 13th overall pick? Not a lot of gap there is my point, so I'm just trying to make fun of the people who illogically have removed Julio Jones as having ANY possible chance at being the 13th pick to the Lions if for some reason he fell to that spot. I'm saying the Lions wouldn't be able to turn that card in fast enough if Jones dropped to them, yet those guys have said 0% chance, and that's worth bringing up to me because it's so incredulous to say that.