Reset or Rebuild?

geeman · Post #1 » by **geeman** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:03 pm

Guys, Were not going anywhere with this team the way it's configured, is it time to re build or just re configure? I say Reconfigure! First step.... MOVE JOE! NEW COACHING STAFF! PLEASE NEW OWNERSHIP!

Joel Embust · Post #2 » by **Joel Embust** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:54 pm

Fire Drew, start Teague.

myrak433 · Post #3 » by **myrak433** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:10 pm

Joe is not the problem per se. what this team needs is someone that will bang and has a low post game ie- Haywood, Nene, Kaman, or, Bogut would solve most of our problems. or even guys like Chuck Hayes, Reggie Evans, Drew Gooden, Ben Wallace( maybe), or even David West would help this team out. Then we need another starting 20 point scorer to take some of the double team Joe faces every single game off of him. Then we need depth. what I would do is first not bring any of our on free agents back and go after a center free agent Tyson Chandler, Dalembert, Joel Przybilla, or Nazr Mohammed. In that order. then I would had some more size, Kirilenko, Chuck Hayes, Kurt Thomas, Yi Jianlian, Melvin Ely, Leon Powe in that order. then ex starts ie.... McGrady, Tayshaun Prince, Michael Redd, not that order though. I would prefer Redd and McGradey. Then we could have a line up such as

Kirk/ Teague
JJ/ Redd
T-Mac/ Marvin
Josh Smith/ Hayes
Bogut/ Przybilla

Bench

Wilcox
Jason Kapono
Wilkens
oh we traded Horford for Bogut. We would have our on mini Big three with Bogut, T-Mac, and JJ.

parson · Post #4 » by **parson** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:00 pm

Clear away the players who cannot be depended on, one-by-one, until we've added the players who can make this team competitive.

Horford is a keeper.
Joe is probably a keeper. Only his contract makes him difficult to bear. When he's healthy, he's the 3rd best SG in the NBA.
Teague is on 3-year probation. If he can become a real PG, great. If not...

REAL problem: our team has given up hope in the present structure of the team. You can see it in their lack of effort. We saw them quit on Woodson last year and, although they gave Drew a try, they still don't trust the way this team is built. Telling them to "run the offense" (Drew) or "this **** works" (Woodson) doesn't work when they're drowning.

Sund's got to make this team make sense. He can either get a big man or stop pretending he's a NBA-quality GM.

We don't have enough size. Horford's not a true Center but he would be adequate if he were partnered to a bruiser. Smoove would be tolerable at PF if he had a big, bad Center beside him. Instead, we have a real dearth of big men. As far as quality big men go, we only have Horford and Smoove -- and Smoove is a PF/SF tweener.

...of course, Horford would be great with a good Center ...

FCNATL85 · Post #5 » by **FCNATL85** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:16 pm

IMO the ones who needs to go in order of priority
Smoothe
JJ
JC1
Hinrich (may as well keep him due to his trade value with a 1 y 9 M left on his contract)

Smoothe and zaza for Bogut and Gooden (MIL does this because they get Smoothe and shorter contracts)

JJ + 2nd for Jamison and #8 . CLE gets a star, ATL rids of J's contract and gets a solid back-up to Al and a good pick ( Alec Burks?)

Bogut - Gooden- Armstrong (R)- Collins (R)
Horford- Jamison- Gooden
Marvin- Wilkins (R)
Crawford- Burks
Teague- Hinrich- FA

Weak link in our starting 5 at the SG but strong and experienced bench to "grow" Burks.
Both Jamison and Hinrich on expiring contracts... maybe some good free agents to pickup in the 2012 summer?

Could be looking at trading JC1 and Gooden for a better SG?

myrak433 · Post #6 » by **myrak433** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:27 pm

FCNATL85 wrote:IMO the ones who needs to go in order of priority
Smoothe
JJ
JC1
Hinrich (may as well keep him due to his trade value with a 1 y 9 M left on his contract)

Smoothe and zaza for Bogut and Gooden (MIL does this because they get Smoothe and shorter contracts)

JJ + 2nd for Jamison and #8 . CLE gets a star, ATL rids of J's contract and gets a solid back-up to Al and a good pick ( Alec Burks?)

Bogut - Gooden- Armstrong (R)- Collins (R)
Horford- Jamison- Gooden
Marvin- Wilkins (R)
Crawford- Burks
Teague- Hinrich- FA

Weak link in our starting 5 at the SG but strong and experienced bench to "grow" Burks.
Both Jamison and Hinrich on expiring contracts... maybe some good free agents to pickup in the 2012 summer?

Could be looking at trading JC1 and Gooden for a better SG?

I like Bogut and Horford duo, but the rest of that teams sucks!@!@@@@@!!!!!
Marvin and Crawford as our starting wing players? NO!

I would rather keep out team as is and just try to add Kaman or Dalembert.

parson · Post #7 » by **parson** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:08 am

If we trade Smoove/Zaza for Bogut/Gooden, we stop right there. Our lineup would be:

Bogut/Collins
Horford/Gooden
Marvelous/Wilkins
Joe/???
Hinrich/Teague

This is a good group and we'd have to see what'd happen with the chemistry of that team before moving other players.

parson · Post #8 » by **parson** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:10 am

FCNATL85 wrote:IMO the ones who needs to go in order of priority

Smoothe and zaza for Bogut and Gooden (MIL does this because they get Smoothe and shorter contracts)

JJ + 2nd for Jamison and #8 . CLE gets a star, ATL rids of J's contract and gets a solid back-up to Al and a good pick ( Alec Burks?)

Why would we want Gooden AND Jamison as backups to Horford?

Harry10 · Post #9 » by **Harry10** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 2:38 am

parson wrote:If we trade Smoove/Zaza for Bogut/Gooden, we stop right there. Our lineup would be:

Bogut/Collins
Horford/Gooden
Marvelous/Wilkins
Joe/???
Hinrich/Teague

This is a good group and we'd have to see what'd happen with the chemistry of that team before moving other players.

great idea..... now we just need to convince Milwaukee to trade their elite defensive CENTER for our elite defensive PF, brilliant?!?!?! :sleep:

FCNATL85 · Post #10 » by **FCNATL85** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:25 am

Our team simply sucks and I cannot beleive that i would have been saying that. I am tired of seing the waste of J Smoothe talent, the fact that we potentially have two talented PF ( Smoothe is a shadow of himself at the 3), JJ has no leadership, Jamaal is back to his old self and Hinrich only verue at the moment is his 9M expiring, considering that he would play the same role than Bibby (w/ maybe better D) and that is SLOWING down Teague's shot at leading an NBA team, in that case ATL.

You talk about bold:
1) play Teague at the PG ahead of Kirk

2) trade Josh during the off sesaon for a big: Bogut or Nene, might require a future pick, a filler (zaza) and taking on a bad 3-4 M contract in return...

3) trade Joe for a couple of vets and a pick (Jamison and a pick would work with CLE if they would be willing to do so)

4) sign and trade JC1 to get return unless you can get him at 6.5M a year

5) entertain Hinrich trade and see what you could get in return

Post #11 » by **HMFFL** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:35 am

FCNATL85 wrote:You talk about bold:
1) play Teague at the PG ahead of Kirk

2) trade Josh during the off sesaon for a big: Bogut or Nene, might require a future pick, a filler (zaza) and taking on a bad 3-4 M contract in return...

3) trade Joe for a couple of vets and a pick (Jamison and a pick would work with CLE if they would be willing to do so)

4) sign and trade JC1 to get return unless you can get him at 6.5M a year

5) entertain Hinrich trade and see what you could get in return

Teague appears to have confidence issues. It could very well be due to Drew, but Teague seems to be mentally soft, and I personally see no reason to think highly of him. Am I really suppose to feel confident about next season with Jeff Teaque playing most of the minutes at the point?

The Bucks won't trade us Bogut even if we included three future first round picks.

So, you want us to acquire no value for Joe Johnson, except for a pick? If we ended up having cap space once Jamison comes off the book do you actually expect Sund & the ASG to put it to good use?

Jamal Crawford needed to be moved before the deadline for value that would help us during the playoffs or during the future. Having so much money invested at the 2 is a fail to me as long as the ASG avoids paying the luxury tax. I like Jamal, but we can downgrade.

I think Washington received a near max return for Kirk Hinrich. Portland offered a future first for him during the past and we beat that offer.

FCNATL85 · Post #12 » by **FCNATL85** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:43 am

Again, maybe POR is the team we should be trying to deal with...IF they do have interest in Josh, jamal or even Hinrich...

parson · Post #13 » by **parson** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:39 pm

Harry10 wrote:great idea..... now we just need to convince Milwaukee to trade their elite defensive CENTER for our elite defensive PF, brilliant?!?!?!

It wasn't my idea. I was referring to FCNATL85's trade idea above.

I was saying IF we did that 1st trade, then we wouldn't want to do the 2nd.

Geaux_Hawks · Post #14 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:00 pm

Would you be willing to reset with this trade:

ATL gets: Bogut, Gooden, Ilyasova, Delfino(TO&exp), S&T CDR(1 millish), Future 1st

MIL gets: Horford, Marvin, Zaza, and a if needed filler

Sign:T Mac

Re-sign: Damien and Armstrong

1-Hinrich/Teague/Mcgrady
2-Joe/Mcgrady/CDR
3-Delfino/Wilkins
4-Josh/Ilyasova/Gooden
5-Bogut/Gooden/Armstrong

Can still be under the cap with that as we only add about 2 or 3 mill in the trade or not even add that if don't take on CDR and Delfino(team option)

HoopsGuru25 · Post #15 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:37 pm

Stop with the Bogut proposals. 7 foot centers don't get traded unless they are over 30 or are mediocre(salary dumps).

parson · Post #16 » by **parson** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:05 am

HoopsGuru25 wrote:Stop with the Bogut proposals. 7 foot centers don't get traded unless they are over 30 or are mediocre(salary dumps).

.... or we overpay, taking on at least one of Salmons/Gooden/Maggette.

Point is, it CAN be done, but we'd have to be able to live with the price.

HoopsGuru25 · Post #17 » by **HoopsGuru25** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:40 am

Sure it could be done...but where are the examples of quality centers getting traded that weren't obvious salary dumps? Al Jefferson(although he's more of a PF imo) is the only player that comes to mind in recent years and he was traded in a package for one of the best power forwards ever. You have guys like Andrew Bynum and Joakim Noah who score about 11 ppg that are deemed untouchable in trades for 25 ppg scorers like Carmelo.

parson · Post #18 » by **parson** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:30 am

Normally, I'd agree with you. Matter-of-fact, to me, Centers and PGs are the biggest priorities of any GM. If I had a Bogut or Rondo, I'd run from any GM who tried to make me an offer for them.

However, the MIL board says Bogut can be had for the team that will take on Salmons AND Gooden AND Maggette. He might be had for just one, but that's not so sure. I'm not going to bore you with repeats of my prior posts on the subject but it appears that Bogut is available to the team that will take on the bad contracts MIL has.

Geaux_Hawks · Post #19 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:40 am

MIL board accepted a deal I made and I included Marvin in it as well. If we are in win now mode(pretty obvious we are) any player can and should be dealt for him.

JollyJoker · Post #20 » by **JollyJoker** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:01 am

Looking at the bulls vs hawks game right now I think that I would just gut the roster.

You guys messed up big time when you gave johnson that contract.

It's almost as a big of screw up as giving arenas and lewis their contracts. It's in that same category.

Maybe as bad as giving allan houston. Int he new cba agreement they should have a pact where rookie gms are not allowed to dish stupid contracts. It's ruins the game and ruins teams for an entire decade.