Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[sunny]

What Williams says now means absolutely nothing. Given that, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say his chances of staying are around 10%.

[sunny]

For the record, he is a very different situation than most given who he is and his history. Furthermore, he is the only player in this years class who has an opportunity to greatly improve his draft stock by staying.

If Derrick were to return, Arizona is a top 3 team next year and D will is a potential number 1 pick.

[Kevin Willis]

For the record, he is a very different situation than most given who he is and his history. Furthermore, he is the only player in this years class who has an opportunity to greatly improve his draft stock by staying.

If Derrick were to return, Arizona is a top 3 team next year and D will is a potential number 1 pick.

He's a potential No.1 pick right now. Unless he wants to do Noah but Arizona is NOT going to win it next year. Memphis with their younguns. Maybe Texas if Thomas stays. UNC, Duke, Kentucky, GTown. If he stays - he's Willie Warren foolish.

[Dalek]

Why I like Jimmer as a fit for the Raps is that he does not need to be ball-dominant to be successful. Despite taking a volume number of shots, he does it within a team concept that has good ball movement. With the Raps he can still play a bit off the ball like he does with BYU which lets Derozan and Johnson handle the ball a bit more.

Anyone who doesn't think he will get his shot off in the NBA will be in for a surprise. The guy is good enough to get his shot off against double and triple teams and in the NCAA they don't have such tough hand-check rules as in the NBA.

Raps are an offense-first team, and our only success came when we could knock down threes. Jimmer adds more offense to spread the floor and if we get a guy like Kaman to man the middle (trade exemption), it might mitigate some of our team defense issues.

[sunny]

For the record, he is a very different situation than most given who he is and his history. Furthermore, he is the only player in this years class who has an opportunity to greatly improve his draft stock by staying.

If Derrick were to return, Arizona is a top 3 team next year and D will is a potential number 1 pick.

He's a potential No.1 pick right now. Unless he wants to do Noah but Arizona is NOT going to win it next year. Memphis with their younguns. Maybe Texas if Thomas stays. UNC, Duke, Kentucky, GTown. If he stays - he's Willie Warren foolish.

I cant imagine D will going one. I think he will end up in the 4-7 range realistically.
If Dwill were to come back, he would be playing on a team that is projected to be 1-3 and definitely will be in contention for being the best team in the country. It's not just the fact they are getting a top 5 recruiting class, its that they are added the best ball handling/passing point guard recruit and legit bigs. Arizona is an ok team this year (15th in the final poll I think). The reason what makes them unable to compete with the elite teams is that they dont have a point guard, they dont have a centre and they are still very young. All of those things will change next year.

Memphis won't be close to AZ next year with or without Williams though. Looking at the other teams you mentioned, it depends on who goes to the nba, but all of them look to lose serious players (through graduation or the nba).
Sean Miller is one of the nations best coaches and next year will be the first year in his career that he's going to have real talent.

[crosswalkryan]

If we pick jimmer fredette at 5 i stop being a raps fan and cheer for okc or the nuggs.

[OAKLEY_2]

1) Irving - a possible franchise player but we likely won't get one this time.
2) Barnes - great wing and fit but will he be there? Is he top 3 or 4?
3) Kanter - he fits as a centre beside whoever is the power forward but will they risk this pick on him????
They are saying he is a legit 6'11 and is very wide. Lots of risk with this pick but we have no physical centre.
4) T Jones - looks like a strong nba ready wing and good plan B if Barnes is gone.
5) Khawi Leonard - looks like a great young wing with upside but w/be plan C.

[fredericklove]

A busy basketball Sunday guys - Barnes@12:15, Irving@2:45 and Sully@5:15. All on CBS. And then 7pm it's raptors. What a day lol.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Why I like Jimmer as a fit for the Raps is that he does not need to be ball-dominant to be successful. Despite taking a volume number of shots, he does it within a team concept that has good ball movement. With the Raps he can still play a bit off the ball like he does with BYU which lets Derozan and Johnson handle the ball a bit more.

He is the "team" concept. And he takes so many foolish, showboat shots that I think he's probably a total nob that will struggle when he has to defer in the pros. It took Reddick a few years to realize no one gave a damn about his poetry anymore and if he wanted to play minutes he'd have to bust his a$$ of D. I don't think Jimmer has it in him.

People compare him to Curry, but Curry's much quicker, Curry tested out much more athletic than anyone thought he was, Curry had a dad that played in the league (so he knew how to be a pro), Curry worked hard his final year to develop pg skills. Jimmer just takes crazy shots and screams a lot.

[baulderdash77]

Kemba Walker continues to work himself into the top 5 range.

33/5/6 last night. I really think his creation skills are going to translate. Those bigger TJ Ford with a good attitude comparisons are pretty spot on IMO.

For me its now *

Irving
Barnes
T Jones
Walker
Williams
Henson
P Jones

* I don't know where to put Kranter since I've never seen him play and he's been sitting on the shelf for a year now. Also I don't have Sullinger in my top 5 because I don't see us picking him.

[5DOM]

He is the "team" concept. And he takes so many foolish, showboat shots that I think he's probably a total nob that will struggle when he has to defer in the pros. It took Reddick a few years to realize no one gave a damn about his poetry anymore and if he wanted to play minutes he'd have to bust his a$$ of D. I don't think Jimmer has it in him.

He takes those shots cause he can make them. Fredette's also a much more versatile scorer than Redick ever was. And I'm sure his defense would be better if he wasn't asked to carry so much of the load offensively against constant double, triple teams. His team plays a lot of zone D and I don't think Jimmer's asked to play aggresive D anyway cause his team can't afford to have him in foul trouble.

People compare him to Curry, but Curry's much quicker, Curry tested out much more athletic than anyone thought he was

I think Fredette's a decent athlete tbh. He's definitely strong and is pretty quick.

Curry worked hard his final year to develop pg skills. Jimmer just takes crazy shots and screams a lot.

Jimmer's ball handling is not as good as Curry's, but I think he does have solid passing and court vision. As for the last sentence,

He has supreme confidence in his shooting ability, taking jumpers that would be viewed as absolutely horrendous if attempted by anyone else. For him these are good looks, though, as evidenced by the rate he converts these off-balance, contested 25- to 30-foot attempts. He's shooting 44% from beyond the arc for the second straight season, even though he's arguably the most closely guarded player in college basketball right now.

Fredette shows little emotion throughout the game, except when occasionally working the officials or expressing mild disappointment in missing an impossible shot by clapping his hands together. He's never rattled, even in the most pressure-packed moments of an intense game, showing a cool and calm demeanor at all times. This bodes well for his transition to the next level.

Fredette is much more than just an outside shooter, though. He also gets to the free throw line at a nice rate (7.2 attempts per 40 minutes) and is generally effective scoring inside the arc at the college level. His pull-up jumper translates well to the mid-range area, and he has a very strong frame and outstanding touch, which he uses to finish around the basket, often utilizing the glass in impressive fashion.

[sunny]

With Davies, BYU would possibly be the last 1 seed or a high 2 seed.
Their team is all Jimmer.

That alone makes hm a considerably better college player than Steph Curry and pretty much anyone else you could mention.

[baulderdash77]

Adam Morrison was a better prospect than Jimmer Fredette.

Morrison's line as a Junior: 28/5/2 on 50%/43%/77%

Fredette's line as a Junior/ Senior: 22/3/5 on 46%/44%/89%. 29/3/4 on 46%/40%/89%

The fact is that he's a slow undersized SG who takes bad shots. He makes them in college (in a weak conference) but those opportunities won't be there for him in the NBA.

Morrison was a slow oversized SG who took bad shots and made them in college too. Remember everyone was talking that Morrison had the opportunity to be Larry Bird because of his shot making ability?

Stay clear of Jimmer. Plus there's no way at all he's going to be a top 5 pick.

[Rude Boy 1]

Kemba Walker continues to work himself into the top 5 range.

33/5/6 last night. I really think his creation skills are going to translate. Those bigger TJ Ford with a good attitude comparisons are pretty spot on IMO.

For me its now *

Irving
Barnes
T Jones
Walker
Williams
Henson
P Jones

* I don't know where to put Kranter since I've never seen him play and he's been sitting on the shelf for a year now. Also I don't have Sullinger in my top 5 because I don't see us picking him.

Pretty much the same players but different order.

Irving
WIlliams
Kemba
Barnes
T. Jones

I believe Kemba possesses skills that translate at the NBA level. Never before has blinding speed and ability to absorb contact not translated in the NBA. I think it was me who compared him to TJ Ford and I stand behind that. The only reason TJ didn't work here is because of his injury, his skill as a basketball player had him at an allstar PG level.

[ItsDanger]

Walker doesnt seem to have the legit upside to me. May well be a solid PG in the NBA but we need more than that.

[baulderdash77]

Interesting that someone else has the same top 5 as me this early in the process. By the way, I'll make the bold prediction that we're going to end up with one of Irving or Walker when it's all said and done, unless BC does something stupid and takes a euro.

[chimpston17]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2Mp9FjiJhY[/youtube]

Watching the game last night, Jimmer just put on a crazy shooting show. Crazy thing about these highlights is that there were not many misses in between, seemed like the only 3's he missed were like 7 feet behind the line. He can pass too, it's fairly obvious to those that watched the game that he does have some passing abilities. Especially if you put some talent around him I'm sure he'd do more of it too. He does remind me of steph curry but even curry didn't shoot 3's like this, they were guarding him pretty tight and double teaming him, and he still went off because he just needed to create a sliver of space for his shot and he was making them. I still like Curry better as a player, and if we could get him in trade for our draft pick i'd love it unless we could land kyrie with our pick. Still Jimmer was impressive as heck watching him last night, and to the guy comparing him to A Morrison, they are really nothing alike as players if you watch them.

I won't stop being a raptor fan if we take this guy, because it least it would be fun to watch, although if we took him we'd have to trade bargnani and go for a more D oriented frontcourt. I doubt we'd take him with a top 5-6 pick though if he has a crazy run and wins a championship you never know what his stock could be like. And of coarse how those workouts go after.Or perhaps trading back a few slots he could end up being good value. He will probably struggle against the great d's in the nba, that aim to take away his jumpshot, but it would open things up alot for teammates if that happens, and be fun as heck to watch at least lol. I'm much more comfortable with him than with Perry Jones.

I'm still hoping for Kyrie, or harrison barnes, or maybe derrick williams if he shows he can play sf in workouts. If sullinger is available at our pick too I think he would have good value in terms of trading back. Kanter I haven't really seen much so I can't say. But Jimmer and Kemba are at least flirting with putting themselves in contention for being top 10 picks with the run they are having.

[baulderdash77]

Walker doesnt seem to have the legit upside to me. May well be a solid PG in the NBA but we need more than that.

TJ Ford would have without a doubt been an all-star in the NBA if he didn't have that neck injury. Don't you see that ability in Kemba?

[Gold Dragon]

I think there are four players that are clearly separating themselves from the pack. Here is how I rank the top guys by their peak potential and my gut feeling of their probability of reaching it.

Kyrie Irving - Franchise 30%, starter 90%
Harrison Barnes - All-star 10%, starter 50%, bust 5%
Kemba Walker - All-star 5%, starter 75%
Derrick Williams - All-star 2%, starter 50%

Brandon Knight - All-star 2%, starter 30%, bust 20%
Jared Sullinger - starter 50%, bust 10%
Terrence Jones - starter 40%, bust 10%
Jonas Valanciunas - starter 25%, bust 20%
Jan Vesely - starter 25%, bust 20%
Enes Kanter - starter 20%, bust 30%
Perry Jones - All-star 1%, starter 10%, bust 50%

John Henson - starter 5%, bench 90%, bust 10%
Jimmer Fredette - starter 5%, bench 90%, bust 20%


Numbers are arbitrary estimations of my gut feelings and do not need to total 100%.

I'm hoping that Sullinger, Perry Jones and/or Kanter will get drafted by someone above the Raptors, leaving them with more options that I like at their pick.

[Rude Boy 1]

Walker doesnt seem to have the legit upside to me. May well be a solid PG in the NBA but we need more than that.

Who in this draft does? And how do you define upside? For me upside is ability to grow substantially from where you are currently.