Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

Brinbe · Post #821 » by **Brinbe** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:03 pm

CunningLinguist wrote:
dagger wrote:I would simply remind people of the obvious - we don't have to fill all of this team's weaknesses in this draft. In fact, it would be impossible to do that. It's a multi-stage process, so if we don't like these point guards, we can go somewhere else with our pick. BPA is still a very good approach. The deeper you are in assets, the more you can trade to fill needs with quality options, like NJ did with Deron Williams. We can probably get back to "respectability", like 7th or 8th place, in one year, but it will take more years to lay the foundation for a potential contender.

I agree with the BPA approach as well, I just feel that the way this draft may shake out, the BPA at the 5th or 6th pick may indeed be a point guard, which makes things a lot easier.

Yep, this is my exactly feeling too... Anyway, the more, the merrier as far as good prospects are concerned. If we do our homework, we'll add a good player, period.

Dr Positivity · Post #822 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:14 pm

Alfred wrote:Wow, that's some pretty high praise. It's nice to see that there might be another high level prospect at the 1 for us to draft if we don't manage to grab Kyrie.

Knight's hype is about to pick up big time IMO. He has shooting, size and a steady head - Which are arguably the 3 most important things for a PG.

I still think we end up with Harrison Barnes at #5, but if he's gone, I think I would say Knight is the 2nd most likely guy. I don't see BC going the Euro route and I don't see him as the type of GM to make the Perry Jones try. Irving, Williams, Sullinger are in all liklihood off the board.

Knight is exactly like Derozan and Davis. Great early hype and then some question marks in college - Then started to get his act together. Has proven all year he's got a steady head and is a good kid. Fits right in as a PG of the future beside Demar and Davis and doesn't ruffle any feathers like a PF would - and he can say he's finally got a defensive PG after years of Calderon

I'm 75% certain we end up with either Barnes or Knight if we stay at 5/6. They're the type of prospect BC has been going after lately. Talented, great character, two way potential. I don't think he's a franchise player but if we're picking 5 or 6 I don't think anyone's available but Perry, which I don't think BC is the type to pick

Silk Wilkes · Post #823 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:25 pm

Wasn't Brandon Knight ranked higher than Kyrie Irving as a high school prospect?

Dr Positivity · Post #824 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:32 pm

Rivals.com had it as

1. Josh Selby
2. Harrison Barnes
3. Enes Kanter
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Jared Sullinger
6. Brandon Knight
7. Tobias Harris
8. Cory Joseph
9. Perry Jones III
10. Reggie Bullock

Silk Wilkes · Post #825 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:37 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Rivals.com had it as

1. Josh Selby
2. Harrison Barnes
3. Enes Kanter
4. Kyrie Irving
5. Jared Sullinger
6. Brandon Knight
7. Tobias Harris
8. Cory Joseph
9. Perry Jones III
10. Reggie Bullock

Oh ok, I forgot I guess. ESPN even had it:

1) Harrison Barnes
2) Jared Sullinger
3) Kyrie Irving
4) Brandon Knight
5) Josh Selby
6) Tobias Harris
7) Perry Jones
8) Will Barton
9) Terrence Jones
10) Tristan Thompson

Kevin Willis · Post #826 » by **Kevin Willis** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:49 pm

toka wrote:One last evaluation. This is Summer of 2010, this past summer, when Kemba and Jimmer were selected for the USA select team and they played against NBA players

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JIMMER FREDETTE, BYU

What he does well: Shoot. Fredette is as pure a shooter as anyone in college basketball. He can shoot the ball from NBA range with consistency.

What he needs to work on: Against the NBA players, Fredette had trouble getting open for an outside jumper. At his size, he needs to be a point guard to make the NBA. His ball-handling and passing wasn't great at all. He needs to prove this year that he can be an NBA point guard.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KEMBA WALKER, UConn

What he does well: Ball handling and passing. Walker has the skills to be an NBA point guard. He can dribble through pressure, get past his defenders, run an offense, and makes good passes.

What he needs to work on: Knowing when to be a point guard and when to be a scorer. Walker is a very good point guard but he likes to shoot a lot of jumpers. When he's open or it's late in the shot clock, it's good to shoot the ball. But other than that, Walker needs to learn to always be a facilitator and focus on getting his teammates the ball.

Nice find. Next question is, has those improvements been made? I think Jimmer's ball-handling has improved. Passing - well who can he pass it to. Curry improved passing his final year - I don't think Jimmer made that much of an improvement.

Kemba is a scorer.

Rude Boy 1 · Post #827 » by **Rude Boy 1** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:57 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:
CunningLinguist wrote:A lack of size was the knock on Chris Paul entering the league too.

Maybe so but they could already see he was a very skilled passer.

Everyone here is just speculating that Kemba can as well....there's no reason to believe that he can though. He looks everybit like a shoot first PG, nothing really jumps out that shows he's even a decent passer. It makes a big difference as a PG if you're shoot or pass first. You don't have to be incredibly athletic to be a great passing PG (ie/ Steve Nash) but if you're a scorer you have to be exceptional....

Kemba looks good now BUT the fact is, is that he is playing against nobodies at the PG position in the NCAA, hence why Kyrie is considered miles above the rest of PGs in this draft. When Kemba gets here against guys like Rondo, Westbrook, Wall, Deron, Paul etc....he might be in over his head. As mentioned before Iverson although small as well had long limbs and incredible speed (much better then Kemba). Like I put in my last post, this team would need to pray he becomes Mighty Mouse 2.0.

This is about the most ridiculous argument against drafting a player I've ever heard! LOL.

And like I said before the league is changing BIG TIME what you call "shoot first" PG or more fittingly titled scoring guard is the trend throughout the league nowadays. Guys who are quick enough to initiate contact are dominating the game now whether it be a PG, SG, SF. The game has changed and scoring guards are extremely valuable.

barryallen · Post #828 » by **barryallen** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:59 pm

Rude Boy 1 · Post #829 » by **Rude Boy 1** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:05 pm

Alfred wrote:Does anyone watch the Jimmer highlights and think to themselves "Gil"? Those uber long shots off the dribble just remind me of Gilbert so much.

Or Reddick I would say... Or Gordon from last year. Jimmer... no thanks he is not athletic enough to play a significant role in the NBA.

Post #830 » by **FluLikeSymptoms** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:08 pm

barryallen wrote:

Cavs pick #4? I'm not ready to see a suicide note written in comic sans.

Dr Positivity · Post #831 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:09 pm

Cavs have a higher chance of getting #4 than any other pick

Silk Wilkes · Post #832 » by **Silk Wilkes** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:13 pm

barryallen wrote:

toka · Post #833 » by **toka** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:20 pm

Kemba's already played John Wall, and he certainly didn't look overwhelmed. This was Dec, 2009 long before Kemba developed a reliable jump shot. Wall was able to shoot over Kemba but Kemba was every bit as quick got to the basket well.

Wall - 25 points, 2 assists, 6 steals, 7 turnovers
Kemba - 12 points, 6 assists, 2 turnovers

Kemba moving Wall around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDJ9mFEJM8&t=5m10s

Wall shooting over Kemba:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDJ9mFEJM8&t=2m10s

KL78192020 · Post #834 » by **KL78192020** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:46 pm

is there a list of players who after confirmed they will leave? I guess we'll find out after the tourney. These top ranked guys need to come to their senses, and leave college. Even if there is a lockout, they will still get their rookie contracts the following year. Better than taking a chance and getting injured in college.

CunningLinguist · Post #835 » by **CunningLinguist** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:51 pm

toka wrote:Kemba's already played John Wall, and he certainly didn't look overwhelmed. This was Dec, 2009 long before Kemba developed a reliable jump shot. Wall was able to shoot over Kemba but Kemba was every bit as quick got to the basket well.

Wall - 25 points, 2 assists, 6 steals, 7 turnovers
Kemba - 12 points, 6 assists, 2 turnovers

Kemba moving Wall around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDJ9mFEJM8&t=5m10s

Wall shooting over Kemba:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDJ9mFEJM8&t=2m10s

The first play in the first clip is proof of what I've been saying about Kemba having no problem creating shots over taller players because the threat of blowing by with the dribble will open up the step back jumper.

fredericklove · Post #836 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:51 pm

toka wrote:Kemba's already played John Wall, and he certainly didn't look overwhelmed. This was Dec, 2009 long before Kemba developed a reliable jump shot. Wall was able to shoot over Kemba but Kemba was every bit as quick got to the basket well.

Wall - 25 points, 2 assists, 6 steals, 7 turnovers
Kemba - 12 points, 6 assists, 2 turnovers

Kemba moving Wall around:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDJ9mFEJM8&t=5m10s

Wall shooting over Kemba:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exDJ9mFEJM8&t=2m10s

Man they utilize their speed in different ways, Kemba's pretty fast in the half court set whereas Wall is speedy in transition. Kemba can pass but he definitely has a scorer's mentality and a strong closer. I usually hate scoring point guard but not Kemba, dude is a warrior and a team player.

If we dropped down to 7th or 8th pick with only TJ/Donut/Vesley on the available list I definitely wouldn't feel sad at all if we end up picking Kemba.

CunningLinguist · Post #837 » by **CunningLinguist** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:59 pm

Another point in regard to Kemba's ability to translate his game to the next level is that the paint area in college is much more congested than in the pros for a few reasons: closer 3 point line, less effective 3 point shooters to space the floor, and abundant use of zone defenses. In the NBA, the lanes are more open which favours someone with Kemba's driving ability.

Post #838 » by **FluLikeSymptoms** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:10 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Cavs have a higher chance of getting #4 than any other pick

Other than #1, 2 or 3? Sure.

fredericklove · Post #839 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:11 pm

CunningLinguist wrote:Another point in regard to Kemba's ability to translate his game to the next level is that the paint area in college is much more congested than in the pros for a few reasons: closer 3 point line, less effective 3 point shooters to space the floor, and abundant use of zone defenses. In the NBA, the lanes are more open which favours someone with Kemba's driving ability.

Totally agree. I think kemba's game reminds me of Jameer Nelson. Not as poise as Nelson but definitely faster. Kemba's not only fast and a good ball-handler but he can also shoot. That's a deadly combo skill set to have in the NBA.

I saw a few college games from elite players such as Melo and Derrick Rose. Even they didn't really attack str8 to the bucket all the time. They took a lot of jump shots whenever the paint was congested. That's why guys like Barnes with no handles whatsoever tend to struggle to attack and especially when his athleticism wasn't at elite high.

CunningLinguist · Post #840 » by **CunningLinguist** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:18 pm

fredericklove wrote:
CunningLinguist wrote:Another point in regard to Kemba's ability to translate his game to the next level is that the paint area in college is much more congested than in the pros for a few reasons: closer 3 point line, less effective 3 point shooters to space the floor, and abundant use of zone defenses. In the NBA, the lanes are more open which favours someone with Kemba's driving ability.

Totally agree. I think kemba's game reminds me of Jameer Nelson. Not as poise as Nelson but definitely faster. Kemba's not only fast and a good ball-handler but he can also shoot. That's a deadly combo skill set to have in the NBA.

I saw a few college games from elite players such as Melo and Derrick Rose. Even they didn't really attack str8 to the bucket all the time. They took a lot of jump shots whenever the paint was congested. That's why guys like Barnes with no handles whatsoever tend to struggle to attack and especially when his athleticism wasn't at elite high.

Barnes ballhandling improvements will determine his ceiling as a prospect. Right now, I think he has a below average handle for a small forward. At the moment, he only creates with a step back jumper. If he doesn't improve his handle, defenders will crowd him to take away that shot. I'd also want to see him improve his passing, which will allow him to make other players better.