Prospect Watch Thread

LordBaldric · Post #641 » by **LordBaldric** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:08 am

Worm Guts wrote:I don't see the Fredette-Williams comparison, mainly Fredette is an incredible shot maker. I don't know if he's going to translate or not.

Jimmer looks to me like a white Ben Gordon (Chicago version) with his ability to get his shot off at-will and sink difficult shots. I'd take him over Flynn in a heartbeat, especially if his handle is good enough to play full time PG. Rubio to me at this point is a total wildcard. He could be great or be a total bust or any point in between as far as I can tell.

I'd take him for sure with the Memphis pick.

karch34 · Post #642 » by **karch34** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:59 pm

I think Ben Gordon is a good comparison. I've watched him a bit, but can't say much definitively about his handles at PG. Now if we had a 2 with good handles (Iggy), I don't worry about it as much. Definitely would take him with the Memphis pick.

Krapinsky · Post #643 » by **Krapinsky** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:51 pm

If you think Luke and Jonny suck at defense, wait til you see the Jimmer in the NBA.

phonzadellika · Post #644 » by **phonzadellika** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:18 pm

Jimmer can't be that possibly be that bad at D...he has to save all his fouls for the offensive-side...he's too valuable to play defense at BYU...if he gave a stern disapproving look to a penetrating PG in the NBA he'd be playing better defense than Jonny

Krapinsky · Post #645 » by **Krapinsky** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:30 pm

phonzadellika wrote:Jimmer can't be that possibly be that bad at D...he has to save all his fouls for the offensive-side...he's too valuable to play defense at BYU...if he gave a stern disapproving look to a penetrating PG in the NBA he'd be playing better defense than Jonny

He can.... and he is. Looking at the guy he is guarding would be an improvement. That argument is not going to pass much muster with me. How many guards foul out of college games? It rarely ever happens. I find it hard to believe that his team wouldn't be better off saving points on defense vs. the amount of points his team would lose on the rare chance he would foul out of a game. At the very least he could D up until he got to 3 fouls.

phonzadellika · Post #646 » by **phonzadellika** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:55 pm

At the very least he could D up until he got to 3 fouls.

Fair enough

karch34 · Post #647 » by **karch34** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:00 pm

Jimmer's D is definitely a bigger concern than his passing/facilitating skills. Of course at this point just being competant offensively at PG is a huge upgrade for me.

Esohny · Post #648 » by **Esohny** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:13 pm

karch34 wrote:Jimmer's D is definitely a bigger concern than his passing/facilitating skills. Of course at this point just being competant offensively at PG is a huge upgrade for me.

Yeah, to be completely fair to Jimmer, I think he would be effective on offense despite being terrible on defense. So we would be upgrading to a 1-way PG from a Zero-way PG in Flynn.

cpfsf · Post #649 » by **cpfsf** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:38 pm

Barnes would like to win an NCAA championship for the Tar Heels before declaring for the draft, a source told Ford.

"He's the sort of guy who cares about more than just going to the NBA," the source said. "He wants to leave his mark."

Krapinsky · Post #650 » by **Krapinsky** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:39 pm

cpfsf wrote:
Barnes would like to win an NCAA championship for the Tar Heels before declaring for the draft, a source told Ford.

"He's the sort of guy who cares about more than just going to the NBA," the source said. "He wants to leave his mark."

That would be devastating!

Esohny · Post #651 » by **Esohny** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:44 pm

cpfsf wrote:
Barnes would like to win an NCAA championship for the Tar Heels before declaring for the draft, a source told Ford.

"He's the sort of guy who cares about more than just going to the NBA," the source said. "He wants to leave his mark."

Well, I guess I'm rooting for the Tar Heels to win then.

horaceworthy · Post #652 » by **horaceworthy** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:04 pm

Krapinsky wrote:
phonzadellika wrote:Jimmer can't be that possibly be that bad at D...he has to save all his fouls for the offensive-side...he's too valuable to play defense at BYU...if he gave a stern disapproving look to a penetrating PG in the NBA he'd be playing better defense than Jonny

He can.... and he is. Looking at the guy he is guarding would be an improvement. That argument is not going to pass much muster with me. How many guards foul out of college games? It rarely ever happens. I find it hard to believe that his team wouldn't be better off saving points on defense vs. the amount of points his team would lose on the rare chance he would foul out of a game. At the very least he could D up until he got to 3 fouls.

It isn't just about not fouling out, it's lessening his defensive responsibility due to the amount of offensive responsibility he assumes as both the primary scorer and distributor. That type of role is a lot of energy to expend. BYU isn't the first team to hide a player that important on the offensive end and they won't be the last.

All that being said, Fredette's defense is atrocious and the biggest question mark in regards to his draft stock. I watched both his tourney games, along with 6-7 BYU games before the tournament, last year I watched both his games in the tournament along with 2-3 before, and a couple games his sophomore year when all the announcers would talk about is how he played basketball like a football player and wouldn't shut up about his shoulders.

In all that time, I think I've seen him get in a legitimate defensive crouch once, in their 2nd game against San Diego State this year. Once he did, Billy White blew by him with zero resistance.

I think he's a lotto pick despite his defensive shortcomings, and I'd definitely take him over Flynn, even though you're right in saying he wouldn't be a defensive upgrade.

In regards to the Ben Gordon comparison, I think Jimmer has a better chance to stick as a PG and isn't as gifted physically as Gordon (although the concerns over his athleticism do get overblown). The comparison I keep coming back to is Cassell with more range. A score first PG who succeeds because he's crafty, creative, uses screens well and a quick enough release that he can take advantage of any moment the defense relaxes.

Post #653 » by **Klomp** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:36 am

Krapinsky wrote:
cpfsf wrote:
Barnes would like to win an NCAA championship for the Tar Heels before declaring for the draft, a source told Ford.

"He's the sort of guy who cares about more than just going to the NBA," the source said. "He wants to leave his mark."

That would be devastating!

I'd laugh

......then cry. :cry:

horaceworthy · Post #654 » by **horaceworthy** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:19 am

So, if the Wolves don't have a guarantee from Rubio that he's coming next year, as will quite possibly be the case due to a work stoppage, don't the Wolves have to prepare for this draft as if their biggest need is at the point?

Assuming the Wolves don't get the #1 and Irving, and Knight/Kemba/Fredette go before the Memphis pick (all likely), would you consider Kendall Marshall if he declares?

He hasn't gotten a lot of draft pub to this point, since he became a starter relatively recently, but the tournaments a great stage for guard play.

He's got one of those old man games due to his lack of dominant physical tools, although he does have good size and is figuring out how to use it. People that like him will probably compare him to Andre Miller, while people that don't will bring up Marcus Williams.

He wouldn't fit with Rubio, but he's a true, pass first, floor general. UNC is 15-2 since he entered the starting lineup, with both losses coming to Duke. While Barnes hitting his stride has been huge, it could be argued that Marshall is the most important player to UNC.

Could all be moot if Marshall doesn't declare, I'm just wondering what people think of Marshall. He might be my favorite player to watch in the tournament, his PG skills are ludicrous.

Post #655 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:17 pm

Krapinsky wrote:Get Harrison Barnes.

Do OKC model with him as center piece at SG (1) (save that debate for draft board).

I have a hard time seeing how Barnes could be a franchise player. He's not going to be an elite scorer unless he learns to get to the line, something which he's currently really bad at, and he doesn't seem to be elite at anything else. He could be a nice solid player, maybe even an all-star, but he's not a franchise player.

phonzadellika · Post #656 » by **phonzadellika** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:11 pm

I don't know that Barnes really has to be an elite scorer...as long as he can be a consistent scorer. I want to hope that the real Wesley Johnson is the guy that torched the Lakers and not the guy who tried to blend into the crowed against the Kings, and assuming we have a fully operational Rubio and Barnes we'd have 3 guys who can score efficiently in Johnson/Barnes/Love. None of them are really shot-makers, but as long as Rubio is a shot-creator for them we should be ok.

I still like Vesely out of this year's SF crop...the guy needs to destroy people, and that's an attitude that seems to be lacking on the Wolves.

eyeteeth · Post #657 » by **eyeteeth** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:27 pm

phonzadellika wrote:I don't know that Barnes really has to be an elite scorer...as long as he can be a consistent scorer. I want to hope that the real Wesley Johnson is the guy that torched the Lakers and not the guy who tried to blend into the crowed against the Kings, and assuming we have a fully operational Rubio and Barnes we'd have 3 guys who can score efficiently in Johnson/Barnes/Love. None of them are really shot-makers, but as long as Rubio is a shot-creator for them we should be ok.

I still like Vesely out of this year's SF crop...the guy needs to destroy people, and that's an attitude that seems to be lacking on the Wolves.

Have you seen Vesely play? It's so hard to evaluate talent without getting to see games.

This need to dominate seems incredibly important given a baseline set of skills. It's one reason I like Fredette, he seems to have the need to put the ball in the hoop. I love Bealsey when he's in the zone, but I wonder if he has the discipline and drive necessary to take his game to that fabled "next level." Somebody who has that inner drive seems really important, especially as a team need for the Wolves.

Post #658 » by **Worm Guts** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:39 pm

phonzadellika wrote:I don't know that Barnes really has to be an elite scorer...as long as he can be a consistent scorer.

If we're talking about a franchise player, he has to be elite at something. He doesn't have to be an elite scorer to be a good player.

_AIJ_ · Post #659 » by **_AIJ_** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:39 pm

Barnes WILL BE the next big thing this franchise has ever had next to KG

karch34 · Post #660 » by **karch34** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:20 pm

horaceworthy wrote:So, if the Wolves don't have a guarantee from Rubio that he's coming next year, as will quite possibly be the case due to a work stoppage, don't the Wolves have to prepare for this draft as if their biggest need is at the point?

Assuming the Wolves don't get the #1 and Irving, and Knight/Kemba/Fredette go before the Memphis pick (all likely), would you consider Kendall Marshall if he declares?

He hasn't gotten a lot of draft pub to this point, since he became a starter relatively recently, but the tournaments a great stage for guard play.

He's got one of those old man games due to his lack of dominant physical tools, although he does have good size and is figuring out how to use it. People that like him will probably compare him to Andre Miller, while people that don't will bring up Marcus Williams.

He wouldn't fit with Rubio, but he's a true, pass first, floor general. UNC is 15-2 since he entered the starting lineup, with both losses coming to Duke. While Barnes hitting his stride has been huge, it could be argued that Marshall is the most important player to UNC.

Could all be moot if Marshall doesn't declare, I'm just wondering what people think of Marshall. He might be my favorite player to watch in the tournament, his PG skills are ludicrous.

I'm definitely intrigued by Marshall. He has good size and is a pass first PG. I saw a Mark Jackson comparison on NBADraft.net and thought that was a pretty good comparison from what we've seen in a small sample size. I think I like him more than any other PG besides Irving at this point. Fredette, Kemba, and Knight definitely have more potential to be dominant scorers though.